Fingis you loveable old troll, don't you see what you just did? By hashing points like this, you actually gave the game some good publicity, I mean, you asked if casual is what the aim is these days, and by god, yes! Finally something fun to play that is fun from the get go and doesn't suck your life away.

Thanks for giving the community a chance to expand upon your op and show the gamers out there just how fun Warhammer truely is with its simplistic yet highly enjoyable concepts. 

Since when did 'Non-Grind' mean casual?

The OP thinks that mindless grind for gear and overcomplicated talent trees is hardcore? Those things are merely a result of poor game design.

Originally posted by fingis

1. Easy to learn pvp. No complex pvp features like stealth, fear, mind control, charge, blink, feign death, and so on.

A game should be easy to play and hard to master.  Personally, i'm not a fan of loss of control moves like fear, stun, and mind control unless they have a counterbalance - if you give players a knockdown ability you need to give their opponents a knowdown recovery ability.

2. Easy pve. No group quests. Quests are simple fedex or kill X items.

3. No preparation. Don't need to harvest for food or drink. Consumables are limited.

4. Twink gear is easy to come by. Gear is a huge part of the game but, if you know where to buy it, you can get gear easily. No need to group up to farm that boss for those boots.

Since this game leans to PvP good gear should be easy to come by. I want to beat you not your gear and if I lose i'll accept that you were better than me not that your suit was better than mine.

4a. No need to make decisions about gear. There is only one set of uber gear to grind for. There are no complicated stats like haste or resilience.

4b. Simplified talent trees.

5. Travel is minimal or instant. The 'hearth stone' equivalent doesn't have a cool down. That eliminates time traveled to half.

Some say WoW is EQ dumbed down. WAR is WoW dumbed down.

Is this what the masses want?

I'm critical of this game but not for the same reasons.  A MMORPG should give us more than what this game has to offer.  I don't see anything that really justifies this game's existence or the money that was spent in making it.

DAoC gave us RvR the next logical step would of been to make a Player city vs. Player city game right?  Instead Warhammer takes a baby step backwards.

Pfft...

Originally posted by Macamus

No stealth? Really, how much have you been playing? Both Witch Hunters and Witch Elfs can stealth, and I think Engineers had some sort of camouflage skill dont remember what that actually was though

He was probably thinking about stun lock.

Originally posted by Wickersham

Originally posted by fingis

1. Easy to learn pvp. No complex pvp features like stealth, fear, mind control, charge, blink, feign death, and so on.

A game should be easy to play and hard to master.  Personally, i'm not a fan of loss of control moves like fear, stun, and mind control unless they have a counterbalance - if you give players a knockdown ability you need to give their opponents a knowdown recovery ability.

2. Easy pve. No group quests. Quests are simple fedex or kill X items.

3. No preparation. Don't need to harvest for food or drink. Consumables are limited.

4. Twink gear is easy to come by. Gear is a huge part of the game but, if you know where to buy it, you can get gear easily. No need to group up to farm that boss for those boots.

Since this game leans to PvP good gear should be easy to come by. I want to beat you not your gear and if I lose i'll accept that you were better than me not that your suit was better than mine.

4a. No need to make decisions about gear. There is only one set of uber gear to grind for. There are no complicated stats like haste or resilience.

4b. Simplified talent trees.

5. Travel is minimal or instant. The 'hearth stone' equivalent doesn't have a cool down. That eliminates time traveled to half.

Some say WoW is EQ dumbed down. WAR is WoW dumbed down.

Is this what the masses want?

 

I'm critical of this game but not for the same reasons.  A MMORPG should give us more than what this game has to offer.  I don't see anything that really justifies this game's existence or the money that was spent in making it.

DAoC gave us RvR the next logical step would of been to make a Player city vs. Player city game right?  Instead Warhammer takes a baby step backwards.

Pfft...

Never once thought, that lore played a part in the equation? You take liberties with the lore you risk displeasing the licencer. Making player cities available when the lore already had cities to align with might not have flown too well with GW.

Originally posted by Cochran1

Originally posted by Wickersham

Originally posted by fingis

1. Easy to learn pvp. No complex pvp features like stealth, fear, mind control, charge, blink, feign death, and so on.

A game should be easy to play and hard to master.  Personally, i'm not a fan of loss of control moves like fear, stun, and mind control unless they have a counterbalance - if you give players a knockdown ability you need to give their opponents a knowdown recovery ability.

2. Easy pve. No group quests. Quests are simple fedex or kill X items.

3. No preparation. Don't need to harvest for food or drink. Consumables are limited.

4. Twink gear is easy to come by. Gear is a huge part of the game but, if you know where to buy it, you can get gear easily. No need to group up to farm that boss for those boots.

Since this game leans to PvP good gear should be easy to come by. I want to beat you not your gear and if I lose i'll accept that you were better than me not that your suit was better than mine.

4a. No need to make decisions about gear. There is only one set of uber gear to grind for. There are no complicated stats like haste or resilience.

4b. Simplified talent trees.

5. Travel is minimal or instant. The 'hearth stone' equivalent doesn't have a cool down. That eliminates time traveled to half.

Some say WoW is EQ dumbed down. WAR is WoW dumbed down.

Is this what the masses want?

 

I'm critical of this game but not for the same reasons.  A MMORPG should give us more than what this game has to offer.  I don't see anything that really justifies this game's existence or the money that was spent in making it.

DAoC gave us RvR the next logical step would of been to make a Player city vs. Player city game right?  Instead Warhammer takes a baby step backwards.

Pfft...

 

Never once thought, that lore played a part in the equation? You take liberties with the lore you risk displeasing the licencer. Making player cities available when the lore already had cities to align with might not have flown too well with GW.

The lore you speak of was not written by Dostoevsky or Dickens it was written by the same people who write comic books.  I'm not saying that it's a bad thing - i'm just saying that there is a lot of flexablity with it.  So don't sit there and suggest that warhammer lore doesn't bend like a blade of grass.

Also, they should of focused on a conflict between humans and chaos since chaos is by far the most interesting part of the lore anyway.

Having an invisible army or the enemy from within or secret agendas are popular topics these days and fit within the Chaos lore.

I'm returning, this time with a post that isn't longer than Route 66, to see if I can /thread this.

Fingis likes WoW.  This is reasonably clear.  He also likes LotRO, which seems a tad silly being that he talks about nothing but complexity.

Here's the thing about complexity, genius: there are many places in design and in the world where complexity is needless.  Needless complexity does no one any good.

The only thing endless complexity does is make people who have invested large amounts of time and effort into understanding said complexity feel superior to people who haven't.  Fingis has invested some time into understanding WoW, and the fact that another game does not contain the same mechanics, verbatim, makes him feel all funny because now there's something new to learn.

Cool thing about WAR is that they have stripped much of this meaningless complexity and brought out, instead, a simpler, more elegant, and equally flexible and interesting system.  So now it's easier to pick up on and understand, and it's simpler to get into, but just as difficult to really make work for you... and, when it comes down to it, the whole thing is more fun.  And that's the point of the game, isn't it?  Fun?

Fun, simple to get into and learn mechanics of, difficult to really master.  All the great games of our various worldly cultures have functioned in this way.  All of you know what the moves for each piece are in chess, right?

Who here can beat Kasparov?

Think about that.

The game is damn fun to play, its like wow endgame start at lvl 1 =), if you know what war is and what their goal is, then you going to love war. I will still play EVE and Vanguard for more pve complex operations.

Dont get it why ppl why ppl complain that war is easy,  yes it is very easy, and its damn fun! Total frikkin action all the way. For all you EQ, OU nerds, well EQ and OU servers are still up and running, why not play there ?

Or open your minds, and have some fun =)

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by Raztor

Originally posted by fingis

Some say WoW is EQ dumbed down. WAR is WoW dumbed down.

 

This sums up WAR pretty well. It's not a bad thing though, it's easy to use it as a filler MMO, something to play inbetween raid nights.

 

lol raid nights...you obviously haven't played war if you think its a dumbed down wow..firstly its an rvr game and secondly its more fun than wow could ever be..raiding is the most boring thing you can do with a keyboard. you are obviously still chasing blizzards carrot on a stick. good luck with that.

No offence, WAR is a decent game, but anyone that wants an MMO with more depth won't find it in WAR. WAR is fun for it's RvR and that's it, it's easy to get into, play for 30 minutes and have a great time, but that's about it. if you doing it 4+ hours every day it will get old, very very fast.

In my opinion, it's a good 2nd MMO that you can play for a bit and have a bit of fun. Farming RR levels doesn't count as depth I'm afraid. I'm planning to use this as my second MMO just to have some pvp fun in between raid nights, I'm not really into pvp but this game has some nice features so willing to give it a shot.

---

Originally posted by fingis
1. Easy to learn pvp. No complex pvp features like stealth, fear, mind control, charge, blink, feign death, and so on.

2. Easy pve. No group quests. Quests are simple fedex or kill X items.

3. No preparation. Don't need to harvest for food or drink. Consumables are limited.

4. Twink gear is easy to come by. Gear is a huge part of the game but, if you know where to buy it, you can get gear easily. No need to group up to farm that boss for those boots.

4a. No need to make decisions about gear. There is only one set of uber gear to grind for. There are no complicated stats like haste or resilience.

4b. Simplified talent trees.

5. Travel is minimal or instant. The 'hearth stone' equivalent doesn't have a cool down. That eliminates time traveled to half.

Some say WoW is EQ dumbed down. WAR is WoW dumbed down.

Is this what the masses want?

---

LOL. Are we talking about the same game? seriously?
Holy fuck go back to WoW.

1. If stealth, fear and mind control are complex to you, go back to MMO 101 and learn some l337 sk1llz. The fact that they have gotten rid of I win button crowd control and unfair advantage tactics makes it much harder, and people have to think about whether they really want to run into that fight.

2. PQ's, city raid end game with instances...

3. Apothecary...makes potions....Talisman makers for weapon/armor enhancement...harvest items for use of this off of corpses..

4. Have you even read anything about this game? Best loot will come from killing THE ENEMY FACTIONS KING. Yeah, that's easy, I think I'll take my level 4 out to solo it, and I'll burn the enemies city to the ground while I'm at it. Boy, I really wish I was playing WoW right now.

4a. LOL. Gear is very important at higher levels, mostly due to resists and talisman enchantments to place. There will be a lot of min/maxing templates out there. Sorry if not needing a 100 man raid running an 8 hour dungeon 7 nights a week doesn't suit your taste.

4b. get past lvl 10. You have three trees, putting points in a tree increases the potency of that line, in addition, it opens up access to new abilities that you can purchase, but if you purchase you won't be able to max the tree out due to not enough points. That doesn't include renown abilities, tactics, or moral abilities. You sir, are ill informed.

5. I'll give you this one...sort of. Travel is a little quicker..yes you can teleport back to your bind point as many times as you want! Yes! I can run 40 feet from town and teleport back! Muahahah! Have you tried leaving the noob area?

I have no problem with people not liking the game, or even hating it. But at least have a fucking clue what you are talking about.