Originally posted by Sharajat

Well that looks like you're just complaining about the content available from 1-50.  And honestly, it's a little lacking in a lot of games. 

But seriously, I don't see how you're knocking WoW here.  Assuming you like their questing system (which is obviously the rub) you can do quests, instances, etc. all the way up to cap.  There's definitely no push to get there, nor do they make it so the game 'only starts at level cap.'  In fact the game at level cap is substantially similar to the game before level cap, minus raids.  You can PvP before cap, quest before cap, do small groups before cap, instance before cap, that's all the stuff you're doing at cap. 

I'd think you'd knock a game like Lineage first, which really does have grind to cap. 

Also, your definition of the End-game as boring is clearly not shared by many, many gamers. 

Well, I am complaining about the lack of content but also about the extremely fast leveling in some of todays games. They can have the best content in the world but it doesn't matter if you've completed it all in 3 weeks. Then what's the point of paying for that game for a year or more?

I don't like WoW's quests at all. Hehe To me it seems pointless that you become a better Warrior, Priest or whatever by collecting plants for a NPC in town. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, I could understand if it just raised a "Herbalist" skill or something but that's not the case. You get xp for doing it meaning you become better in general.

The reason I use WoW as an example is pretty simple.
1. WoW is a good example of a lot of "What not to do" in a lot of ways.
2. People know WoW, so they know what I'm talking about.

Maybe Lineage would be a good example as well, but I have never played that game, so I wouldn't really know.


The biggest problem (imho) about simple games as WoW is, they tend to change the entire gaming genre.
My first mmorpg was Asheron's Call (1) and as such I like to think when I'm playing these games. Thinking is totally pointless in easy games such as WoW. Not that everyone in WoW is stupid or anything but the game is so dumbed down...
God forbid you would actually have to think during a quest.. Or maybe you would actually have to SEARCH () for the quest items. If the quest items are always that easy to find, then why doesn't the NPC just get them? lol

If a person's first mmorpg is WoW, I'm afraid that they will forever expect all mmorpgs to be just as simple and that they will leave other games if they're challenging in any way. That would be a terrible thing for the mmorpg genre.

Ofc. some people will like raiding and other won't. That's fair enough. People are different. It makes me worried that people fall for that crap though. Repeating the same raid dungeon over and over isn't content. It's content the first few times but after that.. Then what are the raiders really paying for? You used to pay for mmorpgs because you would be getting monthly updates. That sure as hell isn't the case in a game like WoW. Weekly maintenance doesn't count as a content update.
People should really start demanding more from the mmorpg devs. The prices are going up all the time and we're getting less and less for our money.

Raiding may be fun for some people but in reality it's just the easy (and cheapest) way of keeping people paying for your game. If they made the raid loot just a bit more common, they would actually have to work for their job and release some new content once in a while. It's much easier to let people repeat the same stuff 50 times than to add 50 times the content. But.. We're still paying the same as they do in games that actually DO add more content.

Mmorpgs were never about "completing" it asap. That was what made mmorpgs different from other games.

Originally posted by Grand_LC

Originally posted by Sharajat

Well that looks like you're just complaining about the content available from 1-50.  And honestly, it's a little lacking in a lot of games. 

But seriously, I don't see how you're knocking WoW here.  Assuming you like their questing system (which is obviously the rub) you can do quests, instances, etc. all the way up to cap.  There's definitely no push to get there, nor do they make it so the game 'only starts at level cap.'  In fact the game at level cap is substantially similar to the game before level cap, minus raids.  You can PvP before cap, quest before cap, do small groups before cap, instance before cap, that's all the stuff you're doing at cap. 

I'd think you'd knock a game like Lineage first, which really does have grind to cap. 

Also, your definition of the End-game as boring is clearly not shared by many, many gamers. 

 

Well, I am complaining about the lack of content but also about the extremely fast leveling in some of todays games. They can have the best content in the world but it doesn't matter if you've completed it all in 3 weeks. Then what's the point of paying for that game for a year or more?

I don't like WoW's quests at all. Hehe To me it seems pointless that you become a better Warrior, Priest or whatever by collecting plants for a NPC in town. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, I could understand if it just raised a "Herbalist" skill or something but that's not the case. You get xp for doing it meaning you become better in general.

The reason I use WoW as an example is pretty simple.
1. WoW is a good example of a lot of "What not to do" in a lot of ways.
2. People know WoW, so they know what I'm talking about.

Maybe Lineage would be a good example as well, but I have never played that game, so I wouldn't really know.


The biggest problem (imho) about simple games as WoW is, they tend to change the entire gaming genre.
My first mmorpg was Asheron's Call (1) and as such I like to think when I'm playing these games. Thinking is totally pointless in easy games such as WoW. Not that everyone in WoW is stupid or anything but the game is so dumbed down...
God forbid you would actually have to think during a quest.. Or maybe you would actually have to SEARCH () for the quest items. If the quest items are always that easy to find, then why doesn't the NPC just get them? lol

If a person's first mmorpg is WoW, I'm afraid that they will forever expect all mmorpgs to be just as simple and that they will leave other games if they're challenging in any way. That would be a terrible thing for the mmorpg genre.

Ofc. some people will like raiding and other won't. That's fair enough. People are different. It makes me worried that people fall for that crap though. Repeating the same raid dungeon over and over isn't content. It's content the first few times but after that.. Then what are the raiders really paying for? You used to pay for mmorpgs because you would be getting monthly updates. That sure as hell isn't the case in a game like WoW. Weekly maintenance doesn't count as a content update.
People should really start demanding more from the mmorpg devs. The prices are going up all the time and we're getting less and less for our money.

Raiding may be fun for some people but in reality it's just the easy (and cheapest) way of keeping people paying for your game. If they made the raid loot just a bit more common, they would actually have to work for their job and release some new content once in a while. It's much easier to let people repeat the same stuff 50 times than to add 50 times the content. But.. We're still paying the same as they do in games that actually DO add more content.

Mmorpgs were never about "completing" it asap. That was what made mmorpgs different from other games.

i agree 100%. i don't understand these people who want to reach max level as fast as possible. there is really nothing at the end of an mmo except the same crap over and over. wow's "end-game content" was a joke. it was only  more of the same instances or the same 4 bg's...terrible. to me all the fun in an mmo is leveling your character. after i hit max level it won't be long before i get bored and wind up either leveling a new character or quitting the game. although the abyss seems kind of cool in aion, with the forts and everything. actually gives ya purpose.

Of course many people like grinding. Not to generalize too much but many Koreans like grinding so they can have a feeling of accomplishment after a long grind. They think it needs alot of dedication to accomplish what they have done.

Problem with grind games is that it gets somewhat repetetive which makes many people want to skip all the required dedication by using bots. L2 is filled with them.

I just hope the game is more group oriented. I hate when a game is online but the only time it uses it online capabilities is when your PvPing. One of my first mmo's was EQ1 and during the lvling process you actually had to get into a group and play with people.

I peronally would much rather play with people and play my role in the group rather than solo'ing my way to end game and not party with anyone all the way up to the lvl cap. I wouldnt mind a journey(grind)if i get to communicate with people on the way. Thats when it doesnt feel like work to me.

Originally posted by SgtFrog

i enjoy grinding over questing and we have not had a good grind mmorpg since lineage 2.

anyone else ?

ps. i dont count free mmorpg as they are all badly made and well...suck

I have absolutely no problem with grinding. I find it very relaxing. I'm actually not happy with L2's new vitality system to be honest as it makes leveling much too easy. Combine that with the free buffs and I get the feeling of "why did I bother" after 4+ years of playing.

That said, Aion will probably have some grind (kill x for y) but the leveling is said to be akin to WoW. No problem with that there.

I do think that many who play it (as stated above) will be looking for Lineage III. They will be dissapointed, no doubt there.

It is my thought that if Aion offers even a fraction of what they say (I'm not one of these "perfect game people, just give me somthing that is fun) It will probably be my permanent game, unless the do somethign to really bork it up.

Originally posted by Sovrath

It is my thought that if Aion offers even a fraction of what they say (I'm not one of these "perfect game people, just give me somthing that is fun) It will probably be my permanent game, unless the do somethign to really bork it up.

I'd like to echo that sentiment, I don't care for perfection, I just want a game with the features I enjoy, dynamic AI, story and progression, crafting, housing, some dungeons, some PvP zones but not all over the place, and I'm set.   Oh, and an active development team that likes to throw a lot of updates and events around. That's perfection to me.

I'd echo the above - they aren't reinventing the wheel, but I believe there will be enough innovation to make it an very enjoyable experience

Plus, having knocked around aionsource.com for a while - the community has been great - as has the participation from NCsoft staff in the community.

Originally posted by Felluah

the community has been great - as has the participation from NCsoft staff in the community.

This should be highlighted as I think the NC Soft Staff has been exceptional in the case of Aion. Very communicative.

Pity that Lineage 2 didn't have the same level of communication from the start.

If its done right like old school EQ1, where you'd get groups togeather and set up a camp and grind off mobs while enjoying the company of others ect.. I wouldn't mind that at all.