I have notices that certain pairings are imbalances with each other if they just faught as they are and without other races for help.

Empire vs. Chaos

1- Chaos has a full spectrum of class arch-types, stand back healer, tank class, well armored melee dps, and a ranged dps.

2- Empire has a MELEE healer which is the easiest to target and burn down if they are on the front line. A melee dps.. that is only good ambushing.. and in zerg situations isn't all that great and a raged DPS.

Dwarf vs Greenskins

This is probably the most balances 1v1. They both have 3 classes.. both have a ranked DPS, tank, and a ranged healer.

High Elf vs Dark Elf

Same as the Empire vs Chaos.. but reversed. High Elves have a Tank, heavy armor melee dps and ranged dps and ranged healer. While the Dark Elves have a Melee healer, ranged dps, and melee light armored dps.

I know in mixed situations it isn't bad.. but in a fight with ONLY those factions against each other.. there is goign to be s big imbalance for high elves and chaos

Its not that bad as many people move to other zones making up for that. Now before level 10 on my witch hunter it sucked. But now with stealth I can jump out take out a sorc or WE in seconds then beat down a healer. This takes the focus off the front line my team moves up, I may die but we capped the point or just moved forward.

To be honest the only time you'd probably see "vanilla" RvR is in the infancy, prolly the first day or 2 of head start, after that most people will migrate and the realms will be mixed so this really wouldn't be a problem..

The problem I see right now, is that the Order side lacks healers. People seem to think Order can out zerg Destruction and that is not possible at even sides in a skirmish.

I also noticed that ALL servers.. that Destruction has a higher population than order.. across the board.

This is gonna be bad things.. when release.. for fair RVR.. unless more people go order.

When you have 10 people facing 15.. with all things equal the 15 will win almost every time

we need more order.

Group tactical intelligence.

Order should learn this.

I am so sick of Order bitching about RvR when 90% of you seem to think that going solo in RvR is a good idea.  And yes, I have played RvR on both sides, order is VERY disorganized.  Not destructions fault that we work as a team.

Originally posted by uidLuc1d

Group tactical intelligence.

Order should learn this.

I am so sick of Order bitching about RvR when 90% of you seem to think that going solo in RvR is a good idea.  And yes, I have played RvR on both sides, order is VERY disorganized.  Not destructions fault that we work as a team.

noone is bitching

did you read my post?

I am not saying Order or Destruction have an advantage as a whole. I am saying that each RVR pairing has imbalanced.

Empire - Chaos, and HE vs DE.

Reread what I posted to see what the TOPIC of the thread is.

This isn't a place for you to try and Rant about stuff you read in other threads.

 I did read, especially the high elves part.  The reason we win, is because of group tactics.  If the side of Order stops trying to be maveric about PvP, they would have a chance.

yes i noticed the same inbalance when i started to play RvR...played all races now and noticed just same as OP noticed. donesnt matter at end game as its all mixed but until then its inbalanced

It'll end up like WoW i hate to say it...Destruction is popular now but when the masses get a hold of the game at launch a TON will end up playing Order..it'll probably be lopsided pop wise in Order's favor.  I've played on both sides and honestly the only reason it seems so imbalance is the lack of Team work...Pugs that don't atleast Attempt to work together get steam rolled easily and it doesn tmatter if their destruction or order.

Pairing imbalances have nothing to do with it either.  A witch hunter can easily down a crappily or medocrily played chosen with a healer or bright wizard for back up.   Its like taking candy from a baby if you work with someone else in the group.  Thats the biggest issue to many people are used to being able to handle alot more classes at 1vs1 ... thats now how the game is designed.   You'll never see me pvp alone my lil buddy and her bright wizard and I shall be tearing people to bits for a while :)

Originally posted by uidLuc1d

 I did read, especially the high elves part.  The reason we win, is because of group tactics.  If the side of Order stops trying to be maveric about PvP, they would have a chance.

we are not talking tactics but pairing....read the post

Originally posted by uidLuc1d

Group tactical intelligence.

Order should learn this.

I am so sick of Order bitching about RvR when 90% of you seem to think that going solo in RvR is a good idea.  And yes, I have played RvR on both sides, order is VERY disorganized.  Not destructions fault that we work as a team.

Its all dependant on what group your in.  Some soloers like to bunch and run into the fray.  When you're outnumbered its impossible to win.  As the OP said in some groups, it's impossible to win hands down, especially since the damage dealers are the favored classes.  Sometimes when the group runs in and gets beaten down every time because of poor class choice or grouping methods, the only option is to split and try and take separate locations if you're even close to standing a chance.

Also I play a healer on 2 characters both which I love to play dearly, and I don't think a melee healer is a bad thing. They can dish out and take damage as well as heal.

Originally posted by uidLuc1d

 I did read, especially the high elves part.  The reason we win, is because of group tactics.  If the side of Order stops trying to be maveric about PvP, they would have a chance.

You read my post?

ok where did I say .. one team is WINNING?

I said. that HE have an advantage and Empire has an Advantage if there is no other race in your groups.

Tell me where I said we went maverick?? tell me where I mention  that order or destuction wins all the time?

hmmm??

again.. reread my post before trying to become a drama queen

Originally posted by Pangaea

Originally posted by uidLuc1d

 I did read, especially the high elves part.  The reason we win, is because of group tactics.  If the side of Order stops trying to be maveric about PvP, they would have a chance.

You read my post?

ok where did I say .. one team is WINNING?

I said. that HE have an advantage and Empire has an Advantage if there is no other race in your groups.

Tell me where I said we went maverick?? tell me where I mention  that order or destuction wins all the time?

hmmm??

 

again.. reread my post before trying to become a drama queen

"Empire has a MELEE healer which is the easiest to target and burn down if they are on the front line."

Maveric, healers do not belong on the front line.  And personally, on my server, we whoop the hell out of HE's.

Like I said, group tactics.

And by the way, I didnt make the post complaining about "balance"...

...Drama queen. :)

Done.

Originally posted by uidLuc1d

Originally posted by Pangaea

Originally posted by uidLuc1d

 I did read, especially the high elves part.  The reason we win, is because of group tactics.  If the side of Order stops trying to be maveric about PvP, they would have a chance.

You read my post?

ok where did I say .. one team is WINNING?

I said. that HE have an advantage and Empire has an Advantage if there is no other race in your groups.

Tell me where I said we went maverick?? tell me where I mention  that order or destuction wins all the time?

hmmm??

 

again.. reread my post before trying to become a drama queen

 

"Empire has a MELEE healer which is the easiest to target and burn down if they are on the front line."

 

Maveric, healers do not belong on the front line.  And personally, on my server, we whoop the hell out of HE's.

 

Oh my, aren't you such a big man now, you're server is so well organized against HE's. 

Oh -- and for the record, melee healers can go wherever they want. It's a game, if they want the front lines and it works for them, so be it.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by uidLuc1d

Originally posted by Pangaea

Originally posted by uidLuc1d

 I did read, especially the high elves part.  The reason we win, is because of group tactics.  If the side of Order stops trying to be maveric about PvP, they would have a chance.

You read my post?

ok where did I say .. one team is WINNING?

I said. that HE have an advantage and Empire has an Advantage if there is no other race in your groups.

Tell me where I said we went maverick?? tell me where I mention  that order or destuction wins all the time?

hmmm??

 

again.. reread my post before trying to become a drama queen

 

"Empire has a MELEE healer which is the easiest to target and burn down if they are on the front line."

 

Maveric, healers do not belong on the front line.  And personally, on my server, we whoop the hell out of HE's.

 

 

Oh my, aren't you such a big man now, you're server is so well organized against HE's. 

Oh -- and for the record, melee healers can go wherever they want. It's a game, if they want the front lines and it works for them, so be it.

If it works for them, awesome.

...If it works for them.

At any rate, logging back in to actually play the game.  :)

Originally posted by uidLuc1d

Originally posted by Pangaea

Originally posted by uidLuc1d

 I did read, especially the high elves part.  The reason we win, is because of group tactics.  If the side of Order stops trying to be maveric about PvP, they would have a chance.

You read my post?

ok where did I say .. one team is WINNING?

I said. that HE have an advantage and Empire has an Advantage if there is no other race in your groups.

Tell me where I said we went maverick?? tell me where I mention  that order or destuction wins all the time?

hmmm??

 

again.. reread my post before trying to become a drama queen

 

"Empire has a MELEE healer which is the easiest to target and burn down if they are on the front line."

 

Maveric, healers do not belong on the front line.  And personally, on my server, we whoop the hell out of HE's.

 

Thank you for agreeing with what I said.. I still never said winning.. i said they are the EASIEST TO TARGET and burn down.. how does that equate to "DESTRUCTION IS ALWAYS WINNING"!?!

you are really just trying to be a drama queen.. stop please.

It has nothing to do with being MAVERICK. Warrior priest is designed to be MELEE healers.. they can be very effective..

But I am stating a fact that if you are a MELEE class. you are easier to target than a ranged class since can be attacked by many more opposing classes.. being that the only order healer is a melee class it backs what I said originally as FACT.

Dont' twist this threads point into some kind of reason for you to constantly mention how Order sucks and how you guys always win cause order are all rogue and unorganized.

I find it funny how my post was completely ignored..im not saying your a drama queen but I am offering a different look at your supposed Doom Theory.  

If your Group aka PUG sucks monkey balls at coordinating it doesnt matter if you have a full choice of options or not your going to get rolled.  I've won plenty of times on both order and destruction sides that are missing toons. And iv'e lost tons of times because jackasses think they can just bum rush off and ignore protecting / taking points and actually get something done on their own.  

Anyone looking for a solid 1vs1 fight will hate WAR..anyone thinking you need a Tank to Win or X class to win is also going to Hate WAR because their theories are wrong.   If your team is good and the other team is disorganized run a mok pug your going to win easy even if your mostly melee dps & healing. 

Originally posted by uidLuc1d

Like I said, group tactics.

 

And by the way, I didnt make the post complaining about "balance"...

 

...Drama queen. :)

 

Done.

looks like I have to dumb it down for you.

lets talk about a game that ISN"T WAR.

This game has 2 teams against each other  both can have 10 people

Team 1: has choices between a ranged dps, a healer that gets his mana back by wacking things, and a melee dps class that has no armor.

Team 2: has a choice between a healer who can heal from 50 + yards a way, a tank who can take more damage than onyone on team 1 and a melee dps with decent armor, and a ranged dps as well.

IS that balanced 1 for 1.. yes or no?

I am not talking about tactics.. or strategies. or who is winning.. I am talking about mythic pairing up teams that have limited or weaker balanced selections.

Originally posted by banthis

I find it funny how my post was completely ignored..im not saying your a drama queen but I am offering a different look at your supposed Doom Theory.  

If your Group aka PUG sucks monkey balls at coordinating it doesnt matter if you have a full choice of options or not your going to get rolled.  I've won plenty of times on both order and destruction sides that are missing toons. And iv'e lost tons of times because jackasses think they can just bum rush off and ignore protecting / taking points and actually get something done on their own.  

Anyone looking for a solid 1vs1 fight will hate WAR..anyone thinking you need a Tank to Win or X class to win is also going to Hate WAR because their theories are wrong.   If your team is good and the other team is disorganized run a mok pug your going to win easy even if your mostly melee dps & healing. 

again.. the main topic and reason I posted was to state that the pairing has an inherent imbalance.

Sure if you are goign against an unorganized team you will win.. and vise versa.. but I am not talking bout about stradegies. i am talking about one side haveing more choices. That right there gives them MORE dynamic.. its onlyu logical.. sure the player skill has to take into effect but wtih a full variety of every class the game has to offer.. afainst one side that has all the classes except  1-2 .. you can't say its a fair start.

While I agree with OP in theory.  I have found quite the opposite to be true in game. 

Mind you, this is only in Tier 1 scenarios, but what I am experiencing is that the DPS heavy Dark Elves and Empire are cleaning up. 

I played an archmage to 9, a witch elf to 5, a witch hunter to 8 and a magus to 4.  ALL on different servers and found the same held true across all 4 servers.  In at least 4 out of 5 scenarios the racial pairing WITH the tank LOST.  Also I found that Empire and Dark Elves almost always had realm control in their respective T1 areas at any given time of the day or night.

Interesting observation, I had posted this same thing yesterday over on the alliance boards.

*Edit*  Also notice that the Empire and DE classes are all mirrors of each other War Prst = Disc of K, Wich Hun = Witch Elf, Bright Wiz = Sorceress

Originally posted by phc_doc

While I agree with OP in theory.  I have found quite the opposite to be true in game. 

Mind you, this is only in Tier 1 scenarios, but what I am experiencing is that the DPS heavy Dark Elves and Empire are cleaning up. 

I played an archmage to 9, a witch elf to 5, a witch hunter to 8 and a magus to 4.  ALL on different servers and found the same held true across all 4 servers.  In at least 4 out of 5 scenarios the racial pairing WITH the tank LOST.  Also I found that Empire and Dark Elves almost always had realm control in their respective T1 areas at any given time of the day or night.

Interesting observation, I had posted this same thing yesterday over on the alliance boards.

This seems much closer to the reality than the observed pairing imbalances.  Perhaps we need a more in depth comparison between classes before we can really call the pairings imbalanced.

I have a hard time accepting the arguement that this is a player organisation factor given the games infancy.  We also have the observation by phc_doc, and the fact that there is probably a large portion of players trying both sides at this point.

Heal quality and dps numbers are probably a good place to start.

There are no REAL pairing imbalances, just perceived. Since at level 1 for just 5 copper you can fly to any other war front, players will move around to play with their friends and guilds and not stick to a specific war front just because that is where their race started.

Originally posted by phc_doc

While I agree with OP in theory.  I have found quite the opposite to be true in game. 

Mind you, this is only in Tier 1 scenarios, but what I am experiencing is that the DPS heavy Dark Elves and Empire are cleaning up. 

I played an archmage to 9, a witch elf to 5, a witch hunter to 8 and a magus to 4.  ALL on different servers and found the same held true across all 4 servers.  In at least 4 out of 5 scenarios the racial pairing WITH the tank LOST.  Also I found that Empire and Dark Elves almost always had realm control in their respective T1 areas at any given time of the day or night.

Interesting observation, I had posted this same thing yesterday over on the alliance boards.

*Edit*  Also notice that the Empire and DE classes are all mirrors of each other War Prst = Disc of K, Wich Hun = Witch Elf, Bright Wiz = Sorceress

Dunno, but I've felt quite the opposite...

I made a Sword Master and relocated to Empire/Chaos pairing at rank 2. We haven't lost a scenario there since then. It is quite obvious Empire is missing a tank to lead charges into those DPS-ers :))))

IMO Order is getting battered at this moment precisely because it's missing cool tanks. I've nothing against dwarfs or elves but a pal of mine planned to play order until he learned the KoTBS is out for now... He always plays tanks but he refuses to play a dwarf or an elf (I know it is silly)... He'd rather play a Black Orc or a Chosen since they look oh-so-much-more-tanky to him.

Hmm... or maybe people don't know how to play PvP tanks yet? I feel my primary role is to CC and debuff as many melee DPSs and casters as possible. DPS is the last thing on my mind. That, as well as keeping me alive, is somebody else's job. My job is to be a pain in the ass.