In a sandbox mmorpg you can affect the world. Crusades Online is going to be a progressive universe where players explore and populate the galaxy, build outposts, grow economies, expand into cities, and then protect them from intrusion.

There is a need and an interest for factions and player-controlled factions, both large-scale and small-scale, which undoubtedly will enable groups of people to attack other groups of people, in space or on the ground. This will be the action and change taking place in an ongoing universe evolving through player participation.

In this new age of 'User Generated Content' {UGC} we find the success of 'Youtube' Myspace' Second Life' 'Facebook' Flickr' and so on. 

We feel it is the right time for freedom to reign and re-introduce the skill based sandbox style MMO.  Thus we would like to work with gamer communities to reveal and incorporate some of your favorite sandbox play-styles.  We are aiming for a balance where player-driven economics goes hand-in-hand with exploration and adventure. 

Please let us know what you would like to see in a sandbox style MMO.

Sweet looking game!

How about no level limits?

 It has to be Runescape... the only true sandbox game since UO

Originally posted by heremypet

Sweet looking game!

How about no level limits?

Crusades is not going to be a level based game.  There are five skill tiers that build up to Crusader Class, and these include:

• Guardian
• Knight
• Lord
• Destiny 

         and then Crusader

Originally posted by Runefan101

 It has to be Runescape... the only true sandbox game since UO

If so, then what are the specific ways that you change the world in Runescape by playing it, and which part do you enjoy most?

Originally posted by FatalFX

Please let us know what you would like to see in a sandbox style MMO. 

Part of what I really liked about early SWG was the sense of exploration in a massive world. I really felt as though I was in an area that had likely never been seen before. With that I also liked camps for healing up or just hanging out. Perhaps some fishing as well.

Vehicles, although kind of cool in SWG, really took away that sense of exploration IMO. There simply was little to no danger as you could drive past any agressive mobs.

But I always felt that it would be kind of intersting to have a point to exploration. Like maybe being the first to discover a particular landmark and having the ability to name it.

 My fav sandbox has to be oldschool SWG

I think my favorite MMO sandbox experience was Pre-Cu Star Wars Galaxies even though it had its flaws by being released in its broken state. The accomplisment system earning badges, for exploration , or accomplishments, CSR awarded badges aw well for like ( being loyal to your faction, etc and so on) , the player bounty system hunting those unruly Jedi down, the TEF system where if an opposing faction player attacked it's enemy whether its enemy or NPC's they would be attackable by that faction. Taming creatures,exploration, fully customizable characters, player housing, risk=reward like with locked Jedi class, player based economny where crafting is the king and loot isnt (keeps RMT sellers out of the game). and the otpion to be anything you wanted to be without restrictions.

One thing though it catered to much to carebearing in this game that was my only complaint back then.

heh, I am with those fans of SWG as it was at release. I remeber running around on Tantooine and making notes on the map when I found something interesting.

I also learned to fear the Sand People!

Asheron's Call was another game that I enjoyed as a sandbox. The game map was pretty huge and unless you had a saved lifestone link to an area, you usually had to run there.

It also helped that there was an ongoing storyline in Asheron's Call that changed month to month. These events included the rise of the Hopeslayer, his battles with Asheon himself, the destruction of the old system of magic and it's recreation, the invasion of the Shadows, and many more.

Sniff, good times... good times...

i  will never forget my time in pre cu/nge swg when i was a droid engi running my own shop.

it was so much fun running my own factorys talking and rp'ing with my customers and building custom droids for them.  give me a sandbox style game with minimal/no loot and a nice crafting system, housing player shops and i'm inn!

gahh i miss the old days with all this linear stuff out there now.

Hands down, Pre-Screwup SWG.

Originally posted by krakken

i  will never forget my time in pre cu/nge swg when i was a droid engi running my own shop.

it was so much fun running my own factorys talking and rp'ing with my customers and building custom droids for them.  give me a sandbox style game with minimal/no loot and a nice crafting system, housing player shops and i'm inn!

gahh i miss the old days with all this linear stuff out there now.

I remember very early on most crafters were working in the major NPC cities like Coronet. It was awsome because you had a tendency to interact with other crafters in a very natural way. It didn't feel like forced socializing. This was exactly how I met a very good ingame friend.

Saga of Ryzom and Magic of the Gods said the same thing, but so far haven't been quite the ultimate sandbox we'd want. Will this new game really deliver as well as we hope or is this just more hype?

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by krakken

i  will never forget my time in pre cu/nge swg when i was a droid engi running my own shop.

it was so much fun running my own factorys talking and rp'ing with my customers and building custom droids for them.  give me a sandbox style game with minimal/no loot and a nice crafting system, housing player shops and i'm inn!

gahh i miss the old days with all this linear stuff out there now.

 

I remember very early on most crafters were working in the major NPC cities like Coronet. It was awsome because you had a tendency to interact with other crafters in a very natural way. It didn't feel like forced socializing. This was exactly how I met a very good ingame friend.

 

yeah!

i had alot of interaction with my customers in a very natural way.  it was rp'ing without the intention to rp.

or as you say "feel like forced socializing".

@FatalFX:

after checking the crusades online website i have to say i'm very impressed!!

i hope you can realize your project and i'm really looking foward to play it.

some other things i like from old sanbox games:

- the possibility to create my own skills like in SOR

- a creature system and skills (taming, raising pets, pre nge creature handler, bio engi. etc)

- exploration and exploration/survival skills (any pre nge scouts here :)).the  possibility to build temp. camps in the wild for example.

Although, for the most part, the game was a mess of exploits and bugs, I really enjoyed parts of SWG, in particular the resource based economy, and the crafting.

I almost quit the game within the first week, because I found it pointless and poorly made with no real goal.  However, I managed to get into mining and selling to the well known crafters.  I took orders for minerals, or just mined good stuff as it came up and used the forums to sell it.

I also helped my friend who got me started on the game with his energy sales business, Ahazi Energy.  From there, we started Ahazi Motor Works, selling some of the best vehicles on the server when vehicles were released, and then on to having a great space ship business when the expansion released.

I loved the fact that the best items in the game were made by a combination of:

1.  The best resources

2.  The best crafters, and

3.  Looted components (e.g. Krayt tissues).

It was a "best of all worlds" scenario, where adventurers and crafters live symbiotically.  Unfortunately, the rest of the game was pretty hollow.

Pre CU SWG, when i first started the game started as a creature handler/ranger, nothing like exploring the back woods of Endor with my favorite pets, putting a tent down to rest and just sit and talk with my friends. I really miss Pre CU..NGE is just..not the same sigh.

My favourite (and only really) MMO sandbox experience has to be EVE.

The massive corp wars we had were truly a sight to behold, huge starship duels! The whole supply and maintainance issues that came with corp wars also meant only the competant survived, unlike non-sandbox MMOs where even the noobs are protected and nurtured.

Furthermore, the scale of EVE was indeed epic, granted it was mostly space but the huge tracts of territory that came to be owned by alliances and they huge border wars that resulted made even dull, empty space interesting!

Sadly, after a while, EVE became too slow for me :( Since then I have spent my days playing a multitude of games, many non-MMOs, waiting for Darkfall Online, a very promising looking fantasy based Sandbox game.

A real marketplace. Anything better than average gear should be player created.

No instances.

This may be difficult if not impossible to implement but a skill system that allows you access to special skills/spells based on your combination of training. Maybe you master swordsmanship and you get 'slice' which is a regular damage skill. Then master animal training and you get a pincer attack skill (with swordsmanship) where you and your pet combine for damage. Then master tactics (along with the other 2) which allows access to 'decoy attack' which uses your pet you lure somebody while you stab the person from the side. My character would feel much more unique but I do worry about balance issues...

PvP is key to a successful sandbox experience. It doesn't require full looting or player looting of any kind. There can be anti-grief systems in place without ruining the immersion. But ultimately you need to always be competing against other players for individual prowess, guild strength, money, resources, etc.

ULTIMA ONLINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another vote here for SWG before CU and NGE.

I would think nothing of spending hours scouring the galaxy for a new weapon, window shopping to see what other crafters were up to, making connections as a Master Smuggler with lucky hands who was an Imperial Colonel on the side :)

Well since you asked, my favorite Sandbox Experience in an MMO so far was probably building a business with employees and trading in the volatile commodities markets of Runescape. I know that's not for everyone, but it was fun until Jagex changed the rules of Runescape and virtually destroyed the economy.

What I would like to do even more than build up a business is to build a kingdom of my own. I know there are nation sims and stuff out there, but I mean I want to do it in an MMORPG.

If I can do that, it would probably be my best sandbox experience ever. That experience may already be starting, too. Today I was playing Magic of the Gods and found out that I apparently can create my own kingdom in that game. So that's what I'm going to try to do. The humans don't even have a city of their own, much less a kingdom. Now THAT has got to be corrected! If anyone wants to help me, my character's name is Radnar.

I was thinking some time ago about the idea a customizable religon or belief system. Something that would grant a bonus of some kind to a guild or city, but would require a particular profession skillset to develop it and maintain it. Perhaps something resembling a mayor in SWG - but much more involved and detailed.

Or perhaps something based on astrology, with constellations affecting certain abilites depending on where they are in the sky.

UO was just fun in general everything about it.

Originally posted by showzen

UO was just fun in general everything about it.

I agree. My first real step into the Ultima universe was with IV Quest of the Avatar. I remember playing it on NES and I quickly filled a notepad up with all kinds of information to help me complete the game.

When UO first came out I was excited about exploring the UO universe and experiencing it with others. The first time I logged in UO there were people training their fighting skills on the training dummies. Leaving town to explore the wilderness was crazy and even crazier was going into dungeons. You never knew what was going to happen. Skill information was very very basic and noone knew the quickest way to raise anything. I remember seeing the first master/grand master on Atlantic and I was in awe at the rarity and impressed by the amount of time the person put into getting those skills up. Player killing didn't really bother me too much. It added suspense and I quickly formed bonds with other players and we travelled and worked together to get things done. I will never forget having to figure things out with no tutorial, newbie zone, websites. It really created immersion that I haven't felt in any other game since.

Originally posted by Dhaeman

A real marketplace. Anything better than average gear should be player created.

No instances.

This may be difficult if not impossible to implement but a skill system that allows you access to special skills/spells based on your combination of training. Maybe you master swordsmanship and you get 'slice' which is a regular damage skill. Then master animal training and you get a pincer attack skill (with swordsmanship) where you and your pet combine for damage. Then master tactics (along with the other 2) which allows access to 'decoy attack' which uses your pet you lure somebody while you stab the person from the side. My character would feel much more unique but I do worry about balance issues...

PvP is key to a successful sandbox experience. It doesn't require full looting or player looting of any kind. There can be anti-grief systems in place without ruining the immersion. But ultimately you need to always be competing against other players for individual prowess, guild strength, money, resources, etc.

Hi Dhaeman,

Certainly resources and territory control will be the reason for PvP.  But since the universe is ever-expanding, some players may venture far and away to build and establish colonies that may be highly defended by the time that thy are discovered by a well-organized band of raiders.  I'd like to read more suggestions and discussion about the style of 'anti-grief' systems mentioned.