Originally posted by Vhati

ohhhhh.................... im scared????????????????

 

I mean,  have you played anything other than wow, do you even know what a tough mmo is?  If it means anything to you,  AoC is even easier than WoW.

I know AoC is easier than WoW, I have had many lengthy forums battles with simpilton AoC fanbois on that topic.

But name one single mmo rpg with harder raid boss encounters than lets say....any of the Black temple or sunwell fights in WoW:BC?  name one that isn't just a generic tank and spank with some novel distractions thrown in for 'difficulty'.

Age of Conan can never have dynamic raid encounters due to the silly combat mechanics and bad class structure.

D&D online.

Originally posted by Vhati

D&D online.

...is that game still running? wow

Originally posted by Malickie

I can't say I agree with the idea that wow has had a positive effect on the MMO genre. They had great personal success with their product, at the expense of the genre as a whole IMO. They've essentially caused a saturation of the market, everyones chasing that blizzard level polish, this includes both developers and players.

Don't worry, once Blizzard makes an FPS game, the MMO genre will slowly return to normal and the FPS game market will get saturated with a bunch of Starcraft Ghost clones or whatever.  Just like the RTS market got saturated during Starcraft's time to the point of failure, before returning to what it is today.

I know this from experience in working in a game store during the crappy RTS explosion.  Too bad no one can remeber any of those hundreds of medivel RTS games now that littered computer shelves.

Originally posted by Urrelles

I know this from experience in working in a game store during the crappy RTS explosion.  Too bad no one can remeber any of those hundreds of medivel RTS games now that littered computer shelves.

I bought a couple of them for 5 bucks a pop. They looked like they would at least be fairly pretty to look at. I couldn't even have that, as I could not play the game for its broken-ness prevented me from getting past the 5 minute mark in its tutorial.
 

the RTS genre has definitely gotten a whole lot better though. Between the Warhammer 40k, and more recently  Battle for Middle-Earth 2  we have seen dramatic improvement.

Originally posted by Urrelles

Originally posted by Malickie

I can't say I agree with the idea that wow has had a positive effect on the MMO genre. They had great personal success with their product, at the expense of the genre as a whole IMO. They've essentially caused a saturation of the market, everyones chasing that blizzard level polish, this includes both developers and players.

 

Don't worry, once Blizzard makes an FPS game, the MMO genre will slowly return to normal and the FPS game market will get saturated with a bunch of Starcraft Ghost clones or whatever.  Just like the RTS market got saturated during Starcraft's time to the point of failure, before returning to what it is today.

I know this from experience in working in a game store during the crappy RTS explosion.  Too bad no one can remeber any of those hundreds of medivel RTS games now that littered computer shelves.

Now that you mention it, I do notice a trend here.  Blizzard will make a game that completely sets the new standard and becomes very popular, then the other devs will come out with a flood of crap...happened with the warcraft, starcraft and Diablo IP's.

I remember the RTS explosion well....although at the time there were a few good ones like TA and dark reign.

Originally posted by Hydrakana

Originally posted by Vhati

D&D online.

 

...is that game still running? wow

i expected more out of you than that remark.  I guess  that means i win?

In a just world, TA would have gotten the popularity that SC got.  Instead we lost the company(cavedog) that developed a genre changing game, and got one(blizzard) that is afraid to take a step outside the box.

Originally posted by Hydrakana

Originally posted by Vhati

ohhhhh.................... im scared????????????????

 

I mean,  have you played anything other than wow, do you even know what a tough mmo is?  If it means anything to you,  AoC is even easier than WoW.

 

I know AoC is easier than WoW, I have had many lengthy forums battles with simpilton AoC fanbois on that topic.

But name one single mmo rpg with harder raid boss encounters than lets say....any of the Black temple or sunwell fights in WoW:BC?  name one that isn't just a generic tank and spank with some novel distractions thrown in for 'difficulty'.

 

Age of Conan can never have dynamic raid encounters due to the silly combat mechanics and bad class structure.

Well, my wife still raids in EQ1 and my son is a hardcore raider in WoW and they both say that the majority of raid bosses in EQ1 pretty much beat the WoW Bosses in the area of difficulty. I havent played EQ1 in about 3 or 4 years now but that game have content second to none and the raids all seem to be based on solid tactics and not Zerging.
 

Originally posted by Vhati

define success for me please.

 If you are a publicly traded company, this can be described in only one way: Making money for your shareholders. Being that the stock traded at about 55 in May near the games release and its a lil below 12 this morning, how would you feel the game is doing if you were a shareholder?  (Funcoms stock price as of today:  http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=funcom.ol )

i didnt know that all games are to compared to the kiddy version of  an mmo.  This is the only way to ge the level of success that wow has, you gotta go after the children, and the asian market, that is were the bulk of thier subs are, blizzard are gods over there. (sadly the majority of the devs that are responisble for the great games at blizz are gone.)

First of all, you cant make a blanket statement about ANYTHING, that involves 10 million people, other than it involves 10 million people. WOW was such a well built game, and yes it has faults, but overall it was well conceived, well executed and well supported.  There were a lot of little details that made it unique and interesting and replayable.  None of this exists in AOC. The fact that you cant group in AOC longer than an hour or so before one or more of your teammates crashes and then cant see that he is in group etc etc etc, makes the game very difficult to embrace.  Not to mention all the other shortcomings like itemization SUCKING, linear travel system, terrible dungeon design, banning of pvper's for standing on rocks. And this just scratches the surface here.  This game was a hunk of crap thrown together and hyped to the point of being fraudulent, then pushed to the shelves by a company eager to recoup its investment.  As for the Blizzard developers, how do you know the real talent is gone? If you do know who they are, you are a bigger wow fan than I am and I played the game for about 2 years. Claiming that WOW is for kiddies but you know enough to know the developers and their carreer paths, thats a lil bit of a contradiction isnt it?

Both AoC and lotro are doing fine. they dont need 500k subs to be profitable. between 200-100 subs would be just fine for them.

First of all there is some indication that even LOTRO is headed toward hard times. There is an interview done by MMORPG in which they (Turbine) are discussing ways to change billing in order to generate more revenue.  The 199$ for beta and preview customers and 299$ lifetime subscriptions are apparently coming back to haunt the stability of the game going forward.

Secondly, Age of Conan published numbers in August that were a tally from month ending June30th as per the law concerning disclosure to shareholders.  These numbers were dismall considering that they inculded large chucks of folks (noone but funcom knows) that had 3 or 6 month subscriptions.  There have been numerous posts stating that funcom is charging people even after they have already canceled their subs.  Saying that Age of Conan or LOTRO are doing 'FINE' would prompt me to ask you something - DEFINE FINE?

the only reason funcom posted a loss for the quarter is because they hired alot of new people, and purchased alot more equipment and service for the AoC launch. 

Care to back this up with the financial statements to prove this rather baseless, fanboi level statement?

 

AoC DID prove how big of a market there is for mmos now. moving 800k games is not easy for any game market.

Actually if FUncom proved ANYTHING, they proved the opposite of your statement.  All you have to do is keep a game in development forever, accept only those with the UBEREST PC's into the beta and then keep the NDA up even after the game is released. Then to finish off this grand scheme, hype the game out the yin yang in the media.... make wild promises that you know you cant keep for 6 months into release and print BOLD FACE LIES on the game boxes. FUNCOM putting the FU back in FUN!~

you really think i am a fanboi?  I feel no need to respond to your post any further than that.

Originally posted by Vespers

Originally posted by Hydrakana

Originally posted by Vhati

ohhhhh.................... im scared????????????????

 

I mean,  have you played anything other than wow, do you even know what a tough mmo is?  If it means anything to you,  AoC is even easier than WoW.

 

I know AoC is easier than WoW, I have had many lengthy forums battles with simpilton AoC fanbois on that topic.

But name one single mmo rpg with harder raid boss encounters than lets say....any of the Black temple or sunwell fights in WoW:BC?  name one that isn't just a generic tank and spank with some novel distractions thrown in for 'difficulty'.

 

Age of Conan can never have dynamic raid encounters due to the silly combat mechanics and bad class structure.

Well, my wife still raids in EQ1 and my son is a hardcore raider in WoW and they both say that the majority of raid bosses in EQ1 pretty much beat the WoW Bosses in the area of difficulty. I havent played EQ1 in about 3 or 4 years now but that game have content second to none and the raids all seem to be based on solid tactics and not Zerging.
 

Hmm, I'd have to disagree, Eq1 fights are far more basic compared to WoW and other games due to it being so old - the next gen games have moved on from this with more innovation (except AoC of course).  I don't define difficulty in how much health a boss has and the length of time it takes to take it down, its the depth in the tactics involved to win and the difficulty in coordinating everyone in the raid to follow the plan.

Sure, after a few months of raiding and everyone gearing up plus getting the tactics down pact, its easy for someone to sit there on the 50th run through and say how easy it is.

Originally posted by Hydrakana

 

Hmm, I'd have to disagree, Eq1 fights are far more basic compared to WoW and other games due to it being so old - the next gen games have moved on from this with more innovation (except AoC of course).  I don't define difficulty in how much health a boss has and the length of time it takes to take it down, its the depth in the tactics involved to win and the difficulty in coordinating everyone in the raid to follow the plan.

Sure, after a few months of raiding and everyone gearing up plus getting the tactics down pact, its easy for someone to sit there on the 50th run through and say how easy it is.

Old usually actually means it was more complex and less streamlined IMO. Think of it like the streamlining done to strategy games over the last few years.  Old school gamers prefer micro management, SWG combat is a prime example of a transition from micro management to streamlined game play.

In the beginning there were so many variables to worry about. From state affects like dizzy, blindness(when blinded you were useless), knockdowns (dizzy kd's that made you flop around like a fish out of water :)).

Dots were deadly, you also had three health pools to keep track of. Any one running out meant death, fire burned until you had a fire blanket applied to it , which could burn until you had zero health to replinish and then you would have to have someone heal you (for a long time) to be able to fight again (this could be all three pools as well). Diseases had the same affect.

Another issue that had a huge affect on strategy was template building and alpha classes, That's a whole different discussion all together.

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Hydrakana

 

Hmm, I'd have to disagree, Eq1 fights are far more basic compared to WoW and other games due to it being so old - the next gen games have moved on from this with more innovation (except AoC of course).  I don't define difficulty in how much health a boss has and the length of time it takes to take it down, its the depth in the tactics involved to win and the difficulty in coordinating everyone in the raid to follow the plan.

Sure, after a few months of raiding and everyone gearing up plus getting the tactics down pact, its easy for someone to sit there on the 50th run through and say how easy it is.

Old usually actually means it was more complex and less streamlined IMO. Think of it like the streamlining done to strategy games over the last few years.  Old school gamers prefer micro management, SWG combat is a prime example of a transition from micro management to streamlined game play.

In the beginning there were so many variables to worry about. From state affects like dizzy, blindness(when blinded you were useless), knockdowns (dizzy kd's that made you flop around like a fish out of water :)).

Dots were deadly, you also had three health pools to keep track of. Any one running out meant death, fire burned until you had a fire blanket applied to it , which could burn until you had zero health to replinish and then you would have to have someone heal you (for a long time) to be able to fight again (this could be all three pools as well). Diseases had the same affect.

Another issue that had a huge affect on strategy was template building and alpha classes, That's a whole different discussion all together.

There is a fine line between a game being difficult due to cumbersome and bad game design and a game being difficult because the content is challenging.  Streamlining is not always a bad thing when it takes the emphasis off strain injury enducing game control and puts it on well designed and balanced gameplay

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Hydrakana

 

Hmm, I'd have to disagree, Eq1 fights are far more basic compared to WoW and other games due to it being so old - the next gen games have moved on from this with more innovation (except AoC of course).  I don't define difficulty in how much health a boss has and the length of time it takes to take it down, its the depth in the tactics involved to win and the difficulty in coordinating everyone in the raid to follow the plan.

Sure, after a few months of raiding and everyone gearing up plus getting the tactics down pact, its easy for someone to sit there on the 50th run through and say how easy it is.

Old usually actually means it was more complex and less streamlined IMO. Think of it like the streamlining done to strategy games over the last few years.  Old school gamers prefer micro management, SWG combat is a prime example of a transition from micro management to streamlined game play.

In the beginning there were so many variables to worry about. From state affects like dizzy, blindness(when blinded you were useless), knockdowns (dizzy kd's that made you flop around like a fish out of water :)).

Dots were deadly, you also had three health pools to keep track of. Any one running out meant death, fire burned until you had a fire blanket applied to it , which could burn until you had zero health to replinish and then you would have to have someone heal you (for a long time) to be able to fight again (this could be all three pools as well). Diseases had the same affect.

Another issue that had a huge affect on strategy was template building and alpha classes, That's a whole different discussion all together.

You made me cry