Originally posted by BaronJuJu

Originally posted by nariusseldon

IIt is not the same with Stargate Worlds or Star Trek Online. Both of those have very strong IPs. It is more important for those to succeed and show that the market can take different MMOs in different settings.

 

 

Brand name IP's have not had a good track record:

- SWG
- Matrix
- DDO

The problem, in my opinion, is that you have too many fans all expecting a game to fit their own perosnal vision of what it should be. In the end when teh developers release it, you have a large amount of folks leaving, or not signing up at all because it didn't meet their vision of the game.

Big name IP's, in my opinion, is sure fire way to lose money.

Don't forget LotRO which didn't exactly live up to expectations...

If you think SW fans are tough, they ain't nuttin compared to those Star Trek wackos... even if STO is a decent game they are gonna rip it to shreds if it is not exactly perfect according to canon.

Can't wait for Buffy...... didja hear bro? ....I give up...IP's bah, bunch of lazy unimaginitive morons. If that doesn't work out there is always "Titantic Online" on the way.

DC Universe has no chance, its an SOE game.

I don't see WARs importance, the industry needs another big game in the next 2 years but if WAR goes down the drain, then Guildwars 2 or maybe Spellborn or something will be big. He's just full of himself like any other salesperson.

My bet is that Guildwars 2 will have at least5 mils players... I base this on the fact that the first sold more than 5,5 mils and it's not even an real MMO ehile the 2nd will be. And if not it then Biowares game, world of darkness online, Spellborn or for that matter the game PC gamer reported Blizzard are working with.

Originally posted by Loke666

I don't see WARs importance, the industry needs another big game in the next 2 years but if WAR goes down the drain, then Guildwars 2 or maybe Spellborn or something will be big. He's just full of himself like any other salesperson.

My bet is that Guildwars 2 will have at least5 mils players... I base this on the fact that the first sold more than 5,5 mils and it's not even an real MMO ehile the 2nd will be. And if not it then Biowares game, world of darkness online, Spellborn or for that matter the game PC gamer reported Blizzard are working with.

Agreed.

Unless Arenanet drops the ball which isn't very likely, GW2 is in the bag. But IMHO it has to do with 2 things. Alternate business model and Quality.

Spellborn....not so much. Sorry, I don't see this title doning much but getting lost in the crowd.

Originally posted by Torak

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

Originally posted by nariusseldon

IIt is not the same with Stargate Worlds or Star Trek Online. Both of those have very strong IPs. It is more important for those to succeed and show that the market can take different MMOs in different settings.

 

 

Brand name IP's have not had a good track record:

- SWG
- Matrix
- DDO

The problem, in my opinion, is that you have too many fans all expecting a game to fit their own perosnal vision of what it should be. In the end when teh developers release it, you have a large amount of folks leaving, or not signing up at all because it didn't meet their vision of the game.

Big name IP's, in my opinion, is sure fire way to lose money.

 

Don't forget LotRO which didn't exactly live up to expectations...

If you think SW fans are tough, they ain't nuttin compared to those Star Trek wackos... even if STO is a decent game they are gonna rip it to shreds if it is not exactly perfect according to canon.

Can't wait for Buffy...... didja hear bro? ....I give up...IP's bah, bunch of lazy unimaginitive morons. If that doesn't work out there is always "Titantic Online" on the way.

DC Universe has no chance, its an SOE game.

 

Yeah ST fans can get truly brutal. There are already fans decrying it on the boards, so its well on its way to being shredded.

As far as Buffy, meh. I can't see how they make any sort of coherent game with it, but best of luck to them anyhow and good luck with all that money they are going to blow.  But the Buffy fans may not want to get their hopes up when they side line it for a Prison break or "24" MMO.

As far as DC Universe goes, no it won't have the huge numbers (500k+) like some would predict but I have to say it is getting alot of positive talk of late. Alot of the gaming sites that have checked it out have been impressed. I think it will do ok initally. The real question wil be where they take the game in the future.

Game companies today need to rethink their games as far as inital numbers. Sort of like an EVE mentality. Build a solid, loyal, core fanbase and expand from there. Oh and stay away from brand name IP's. Get creative and design your own.

If Warhammer succeeds then it tell investors that you need to clone WoW even more than what they have already been doing.

However, theres little chance that Warhammer will fail. The game seems to be at the very least half way competent which is what people wanting a WoW alternative have been clamoring for. If Funcom didnt screw over AoC with total incompetence then AoC likely would have held on to over 500,000 subscribers.

I will be somewhat glad if AAA developers get off the genre since they're mostly in it for one thing and that's the $$$. It would be great of more talented and motivated indie developers were inspired to make something more original and fun who have dreams of great games and would put their hearts into them. ATM, only indie devs have the balls to try something new. Their games may lack some quality from AAA dev games but by no means does that mean they can't be fun. Who knows how Darkfall will turn out but it's one example of what could be a great game, made from essentially indie devs. I would almost rather advertised based games took over the market... I never did like paying a monthly fee, especially for games that don't dish out the "free" continuous content. We pay monthly fees for what exactly? Server costs? f2p games don't seem to have a problem with them. Patches? Try completing the game before releasing it. Customer service? Free with single player games and should be for MMOs.

Why would I want to play a game that's almost exactly like another game I'm bored with? I think that's one of the problems developers have these days... they see WoW and it's billions and try to immitate it when customers would rather play the original than some knockoff. Even if WoW wasn't the original king, it's the current king and who doesn't want to be king? You can only make the same thing so many times before it's perfected and WoW has done it already. Developers need to create something new or move along.

I'm just waiting for a MMO that completely breaks the mold. WAR is not that game, although I'll still play it for a bit, probably not for more than a few months but I had fun in the preview weekend. My prediction is that it will be somewhat of a success, but not on the level of WoW.

This guy is really wise, he is linking the failure or succes of his game to the failure or succes of the whole genere. Tha's witty. They know how to manipulate peoples feelings. They did the same about being honest with the community (while lying to them shamlesly). And it works, at least for a while. If the game is not really good (great as MJ promised) it will backlash on them.

Originally posted by mcharj11

Originally posted by r0guy

I mean 55 hours a week is pretty reasonable by most countries standards unless you live in France with those infamous labour laws and lazy mentality.

mcharj11

Hey, if you happen to enjoy shit pay, 1-2 weeks holiday per year, 55 hour working weeks with the threat of being fired for any random reason and not having the right to decide wether you want to work week-ends or being able to refuse relocation...  All the power to you man... All the power to you.

 

Lazy =/= Being exploited just so my boss can giggle himself to sleep every night on his private tropical island.

And i happen to know a salt mine in Congo who'ed be very eager to hire unlazy people like you!

 

Well by British standards it isn't high pay but i get 4 weeks holiday per year and the right to decide whether i work week-ends or not, oh and there is no chance of me being relocated. Also i think you will find that outside of France that 40-60 hour working weeks are pretty common, it's not our fault that in France people are too lazy to work a decent amount of time and bring up strike action for every little thing.

Britain and Germany pretty much subsidise France...

50 hour week is borderline exploiting of people. I worked that way for almost 4 years before I got my act together and quit that shit. Now, I work a 37.5 hour week(plus payed overtime when needed) and get payed more even. But ofcourse if people think that a 50 hour week is completely normal then I guess it is, for them atleast. I will never work that much again in my life. I rather go unemployed than work like a bloody slave for some greedy sob, unless that greedy sob is myself, heh.

I was under impression that AoC will do poorly due to too much hype coupled with technical issues. Quite simply the product could not deliver to its expected level.

For the same reason I suspect Warhammer will less then expected but due to technical polish better then AoC.

Truth be told I expect it to be neither a stellar success, nor an complete failure. Within half a year from its launch it will join the happy middle range (not to say mediocre) column of games. Whatever happens, as I don't claim to have a crystal ball, I suspect that Warhammer will not be a maker or braker of anything. In short I feel that OP's article is an advertisement stint.

To prevent any possible flames I will say I normally end up playing that same mediocre column of games:)

Originally posted by Kaiserjager

I was under impression that AoC will do poorly due to too much hype coupled with technical issues. Quite simply the product could not deliver to its expected level.

For the same reason I suspect Warhammer will less then expected but due to technical polish better then AoC.

Truth be told I expect it to be neither a stellar success, nor an complete failure. Within half a year from its launch it will join the happy middle range (not to say mediocre) column of games. Whatever happens, as I don't claim to have a crystal ball, I suspect that Warhammer will not be a maker or braker of anything. In short I feel that OP's article is an advertisement stint.

To prevent any possible flames I will say I normally end up playing that same mediocre column of games:)

I have to agree.  I think WAR will have tons of people that will rush out and buy it only to quit after the first month.  I would say WAR will probably be sitting in the 200-500k subs area, and that may be generous.  Don't get me wrong, I have been in WAR beta for almost a year now and I love the game.  I just don't feel it has what it would take to get the huge amount of subs people are looking for.

WoW is both a blessing and a curse for the current MMO market.  It showed developers that MMOs are not for the niche group anymore.  However, as a downside, if a game does not show WoW numbers it is considered a failure and has resources removed from it to forever linger in mediocrity.

Some things people are misunderstanding

1. In no way did mark make any reference to WAR being good, and deserving to do well.  Nor that hes trying to make a excuse for the failure.

2. What he says is true.  I know you people all live in fairy land, where 3 guys in a basement can create AAA quality titles. But WAR is the only mmo on the horizon, with truely as much hype/importance as it does.

It has been and is the biggest MMO on the way for years.  If it flops, it will scare developers.

It will not make them try different things. it'll make them go to different genres.

Unlike hollywood movies, and console games, not only do they have a large budget, but they have a continueing cost assigned to their maintenance.

Originally posted by Bladin

Some things people are misunderstanding

1. In no way did mark make any reference to WAR being good, and deserving to do well.  Nor that hes trying to make a excuse for the failure.

2. What he says is true.  I know you people all live in fairy land, where 3 guys in a basement can create AAA quality titles. But WAR is the only mmo on the horizon, with truely as much hype/importance as it does.

It has been and is the biggest MMO on the way for years.  If it flops, it will scare developers.

It will not make them try different things. it'll make them go to different genres.

Unlike hollywood movies, and console games, not only do they have a large budget, but they have a continueing cost assigned to their maintenance.

Correction:  If it is good, and it flops, it will scare developers/investors.

If it sucks and it flops, it won't scare anyone.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

I don't think War is as important as Mark has made it out to be.

The problem is that it is yet once again a FANTASY mmo, very much in the veins of WOW, with slightly different graphics and more emphasis on PvP. That is not a lot of differentiation. And i highly doubt the Warhammer license is as well known in the general public mind.

.......

Look at all the successful First Person Shooters made. And how similar they all are to each other. Hardly any innovation at all in that genre.

It's how the game industry has worked since Quake, I don't know why some of you think MMOs are going to be different.

You have to look at it from the investors point of view, are you going to bet 100 mill on something totally new and risky. Just because a few poster on MMORPG.com chant sandbox everyday?

And the reason there are so many fantasy MMOs, for you brainiacks that haven't figured it out yet, is that scifi games just turn into shooters (Unless BioWare is doing it, or it's Starwars ). Just look at how well Tabula Rasa did. The class design was honorable because there is only so much you can do with a gun.

 

Quite Honestly Paid subscription MMO's are a JOke , because really what are you getting? lately a lot of crap and 2 or 3 years ago it was the same, when Guild wars first came out with free to Play  a lot of industry insiders said that if it became successful more companies would follow suit, well, yah thats what is happening and yes while some F2P mmos are crap, Guild Wars 2 is coming out hopefully in the next year or two and it won't disappoint ...

If GW is F2P then mass effect is also F2P, Assassin's Creed is also F2P... Call of Duty is also F2P... wondering why they ask 50 bucks for the box? they also ask for some bucks for gw....

GW is pay for the box.. not really F2P, just suscription less...

well so are all these other games, they also release expansions you know, and you STILL  have to pay 14.99 a month, and GW you don't, GW1 has currently 5 million subscribers which are eagerly awaiting GW2 which will be a persistent world, no more instancing except in a few places, and it will have a lot of character customizations....GW is a success and so will GW2, if GW2 takes off as good as Gw1 did, with its F2P model other companies will have to look at this way of doing business, pretty soon it will be the standard

Originally posted by susanto1228

well so are all these other games, they also release expansions you know, and you STILL  have to pay 14.99 a month, and GW you don't, GW1 has currently 5 million subscribers which are eagerly awaiting GW2 which will be a persistent world, no more instancing except in a few places, and it will have a lot of character customizations....GW is a success and so will GW2, if GW2 takes off as good as Gw1 did, with its F2P model other companies will have to look at this way of doing business, pretty soon it will be the standard

Don't forget you can't really get discounted xpacs, guild wars charges 50 bucks per xpac(i wanted to get nightfall, but lol no thanks)

so

50+xpac 50+xpac 50+xpac 50+xpac =$200

so buying all the xpacs it translate into 16 months of monthly fees, and guild wars is resembles free to download games VERY highly, and I doubt many people have played it for 16 months worth of time, mainly just checking out xpacs and then stopping every couple weeks/months, i'd put 8-12 for the average player.

for wow, 50+40+40(come wotlk)=130, you get the first month free, so you'd get about 5 months of time.  That means if you were to play wow, and buy wotlk and tbc, it would be 6 months of time before you reached gw's price.

so your really getting 2-6 extra months of time for gw assuming you are pretty standard when it comes to retention and not popping in and out.

and to a response to my earlier post.

Publishers and them don't see the market the way we do

1. Good game

2. bad game

3. good game

4. terrible game

5. perfect game

6. Broken game

They see

1. 5 mil subs 60 mil budget

2. 10k subs 4 mil budget

3. 100k subs 16 mil budget

4. 1k subs 20 mil budget

5. 300k subs 40 mil budget

6. 30k subs 2 mil budget

if they see a big budget game tank and bleed(aoc), then another one tank and bleed(war), they aren't going to go "those are exceptions, let's keep trying to get wow numbers" "if we keep throwing cash to ambitious developers, one of them is bound to get it right".

Game companies aren't players, they don't look at things the way we do.

Imho as much I love and cant  w8 to be released WAR it means that MMO genre it`s comming  to it`s critical mass where it can only ruin itself  like everything out there it camed to it`s climax cause they all saw what few good MMO`s done (had a lots of subsc. etc) every1 want  the piece of that cake and they are just copy /paste no nothing new  god forsake me revolutionary so in this turmoil something got  to stand above the average and point a direction to a new generation of  copy/paste MMO`s, basicly succes  or failure of war will be a major strike to MMO world for good or for worse only time will tell but I wrealy jope it`s gonna set some new standards cause I wrealy like theyres relation with customers  so far.

WAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!