When Denial, PR Spin, Forum Nazism.  Out Right Lying doesn't work. Why not try the truth.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/191/view/videos/play/1288

OMG..... you cant BUY entertainment like this.....  /grabs popcorn!

"not a perfect launch at all"..... he says!!!!

"need to fix the memory leaks!"!!!! he says!!!!

AoC is tauted as a PvP centric game.... Ellingson says that, (talking about PvP Experience) "I didnt feel it was a major feature!"...lol

he says that "we didnt meet the first delivery date for the PvP system we stated"....   he FAILED to aknowledge that they also missed the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th delivery date they stated also!!!

WOW.... (no pun intended)....  you ever get the feeling that other MMO companies are paying for subs in AoC JUST TO KEEP this level of delusion in the public eye?.... ROFL

Originally posted by Ghist

When Denial, PR Spin, Forum Nazism.  Out Right Lying doesn't work. Why not try the truth.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/191/view/videos/play/1288

 

The Truth?  Are you crazy?  Hold on that is just so crazy that might work!  Brilliant!

Actually he is only saying these thigns because he is in a corner.  Unfortunately it is the same old same old as shown by the forum moderation question.

Erling never responds to the type of questions people really want answered.  One thing you can notice on the official forums as the population is castrated/truncated (whatever descriptor  you want to use) is that the Fanbois feel that things are getting better.

That isn't to mention the numerous people with active accounts who have now been outright banned for posting negative comments on the general boards. 

Lit

The problem I have with this particular issue is not that Ellingsen is telling the truth, it's the fact that it took him several months before deciding that honesty was the proper course of action.

This glaring oversight is only magnified by the endless levels of general PR deceit that we've all witnessed over the course of time as well.

I have to question the sincerity of the honesty here, because I genuinely just don't believe Funcom cares, at all, about it's customers (which they've demonstrated through their actions for over 90 days), and I can't help but wonder if this is nothing more than a desparate tactic to try and save face amongst some of their customer base.

However. I do believe this is step 1 in the RIGHT direction for Ellingsen and Funcom. Want to know what would really send a stronger message than a delicate admittance of wrong-doing? Here's my list.

1) Restore forum privileges to all customers who have been banned.

Funcom censored so many people. I have no doubt that many of the banned offenders deserved their punishment, as this game generated a lot of hate. However, many users were banned simply for stating that they were dissatisfied with a product, now inferior and incomplete by admittance of Ellingsen himself, which I don't believe is fair. Or, if Ellingsen would like to test out how absurd the forum moderation is, have him create a few alternate forum names, and post slightly negative things about the game. Maybe if he was banned from his own boards for civilly citing the flaws that lie within it, he'd understand his community's distrust of the company better.

2) Offer a "Return to Hyboria" campaign later this year. Don't you DARE do this without fixing the game first, either. In other words, provide all previously paying customers a full, free month to anyone who had a subscription between May and the present. If the game is truly fixed, people may trickle back in slowly. Do NOT half-ass this, and try to rush it in to compete against Warhammer.

3) Start fixing performance issues. Hell, dedicate a whole month to nothing but performance patches.

4) Shut the PR Hype-and-Lie machines down entirely. Want to know how to undermine the sincerity of any true gesture admitting wrong-doing? Put out an article or a statement that is deliberately misleading the next day. We don't care about how many boxes you sold, nor do we want to hear about the "mature rating", or anything else. We want the game to be fixed, and fun. Rubbing our faces in the dirt is not an intelligible way to keep us excited about the future of Hyboria.

5) Dismiss the idea of an expansion pack for now. Want to hammer a nail in the coffin? Keep talking about the expansion pack when the elements that were supposed to be in your core game aren't even there. I *hope* I speak for everyone when I say that it is preposterous to charge people for things that you failed to deliver in your first game due to technical incompetence. I will personally never even consider re-subbing to this game if an expansion pack is released before this game is repaired.

I saw a lot of people write on AoC's old form that the froms is much more fun than the game it self, and thats one of the reasons why i strolled in to mmorpg.com.  And they were right, this is so much more fun :)  It is exsilerating to watch something i dread so much burn . . . . does this make me a bad person? :)

Originally posted by Cymdai

The problem I have with this particular issue is not that Ellingsen is telling the truth, it's the fact that it took him several months before deciding that honesty was the proper course of action.

This glaring oversight is only magnified by the endless levels of general PR deceit that we've all witnessed over the course of time as well.

I have to question the sincerity of the honesty here, because I genuinely just don't believe Funcom cares, at all, about it's customers (which they've demonstrated through their actions for over 90 days), and I can't help but wonder if this is nothing more than a desparate tactic to try and save face amongst some of their customer base.

However. I do believe this is step 1 in the RIGHT direction for Ellingsen and Funcom. Want to know what would really send a stronger message than a delicate admittance of wrong-doing? Here's my list.

1) Restore forum privileges to all customers who have been banned.

Funcom censored so many people. I have no doubt that many of the banned offenders deserved their punishment, as this game generated a lot of hate. However, many users were banned simply for stating that they were dissatisfied with a product, now inferior and incomplete by admittance of Ellingsen himself, which I don't believe is fair. Or, if Ellingsen would like to test out how absurd the forum moderation is, have him create a few alternate forum names, and post slightly negative things about the game. Maybe if he was banned from his own boards for civilly citing the flaws that lie within it, he'd understand his community's distrust of the company better.

2) Offer a "Return to Hyboria" campaign later this year. Don't you DARE do this without fixing the game first, either. In other words, provide all previously paying customers a full, free month to anyone who had a subscription between May and the present. If the game is truly fixed, people may trickle back in slowly. Do NOT half-ass this, and try to rush it in to compete against Warhammer.

3) Start fixing performance issues. Hell, dedicate a whole month to nothing but performance patches.

4) Shut the PR Hype-and-Lie machines down entirely. Want to know how to undermine the sincerity of any true gesture admitting wrong-doing? Put out an article or a statement that is deliberately misleading the next day. We don't care about how many boxes you sold, nor do we want to hear about the "mature rating", or anything else. We want the game to be fixed, and fun. Rubbing our faces in the dirt is not an intelligible way to keep us excited about the future of Hyboria.

5) Dismiss the idea of an expansion pack for now. Want to hammer a nail in the coffin? Keep talking about the expansion pack when the elements that were supposed to be in your core game aren't even there. I *hope* I speak for everyone when I say that it is preposterous to charge people for things that you failed to deliver in your first game due to technical incompetence. I will personally never even consider re-subbing to this game if an expansion pack is released before this game is repaired.

Great post. Number 4 especially.

The problem lie in this formula they have chosen to use.

Lie

Lie

Lie

Lie

Lie

Lie to cover up Lie

Truth

Sadly lie trumps truth until actions start speaking.

OMFG.  It shows you how stupid managment is at Funcom.  Erling says that he PERSONALLY felt that PvP wasn't one of the main features of Age of Conan.  WHAT THE HELL!?!?!?  See, Avery, and the rest of you fanbois.  Right there is LIEING to you all.  From forums everywhere including the Funcom forums, PVE was the unwanted stepchild of AoC.  It was all about combat and pvp on the forums for the last two years.  I can't believe Erling would insult the community like this and say that he didn't feel pvp would be that big of a feature with this game.  Are you kidding me?

I'm sorry.  The only way for Funcom to save face and move forward with the community is to fire both Guate and Erling.  Until that happens, I would never consider giving AoC a second look even if it was for a year, free of charge.

Originally posted by Cymdai

The problem I have with this particular issue is not that Ellingsen is telling the truth, it's the fact that it took him several months before deciding that honesty was the proper course of action.

This glaring oversight is only magnified by the endless levels of general PR deceit that we've all witnessed over the course of time as well.

I have to question the sincerity of the honesty here, because I genuinely just don't believe Funcom cares, at all, about it's customers (which they've demonstrated through their actions for over 90 days), and I can't help but wonder if this is nothing more than a desparate tactic to try and save face amongst some of their customer base.

However. I do believe this is step 1 in the RIGHT direction for Ellingsen and Funcom. Want to know what would really send a stronger message than a delicate admittance of wrong-doing? Here's my list.

1) Restore forum privileges to all customers who have been banned.

Funcom censored so many people. I have no doubt that many of the banned offenders deserved their punishment, as this game generated a lot of hate. However, many users were banned simply for stating that they were dissatisfied with a product, now inferior and incomplete by admittance of Ellingsen himself, which I don't believe is fair. Or, if Ellingsen would like to test out how absurd the forum moderation is, have him create a few alternate forum names, and post slightly negative things about the game. Maybe if he was banned from his own boards for civilly citing the flaws that lie within it, he'd understand his community's distrust of the company better.

2) Offer a "Return to Hyboria" campaign later this year. Don't you DARE do this without fixing the game first, either. In other words, provide all previously paying customers a full, free month to anyone who had a subscription between May and the present. If the game is truly fixed, people may trickle back in slowly. Do NOT half-ass this, and try to rush it in to compete against Warhammer.

3) Start fixing performance issues. Hell, dedicate a whole month to nothing but performance patches.

4) Shut the PR Hype-and-Lie machines down entirely. Want to know how to undermine the sincerity of any true gesture admitting wrong-doing? Put out an article or a statement that is deliberately misleading the next day. We don't care about how many boxes you sold, nor do we want to hear about the "mature rating", or anything else. We want the game to be fixed, and fun. Rubbing our faces in the dirt is not an intelligible way to keep us excited about the future of Hyboria.

5) Dismiss the idea of an expansion pack for now. Want to hammer a nail in the coffin? Keep talking about the expansion pack when the elements that were supposed to be in your core game aren't even there. I *hope* I speak for everyone when I say that it is preposterous to charge people for things that you failed to deliver in your first game due to technical incompetence. I will personally never even consider re-subbing to this game if an expansion pack is released before this game is repaired.

Cymdai, maybe Funcom should offer you a job.

Some good suggestions made there, but how this episode got quite this far is beyond me.  I can't believe how deep a hole this company has dug for itself .

How stupid do they think gamers are, for Christ's sake?  Well, they seem to have all the stupid ones still paying for their beta, so I guess they gauged it well to a degree.

Every month the PR machine goes into overdrive making rash promises about content, performance and PvP.  Every month the same folk believe the lies and cough up again, but even the diehards are starting to tire of the BS.

A PvP system now has NO 'definitve' date to be implemented.  Before the game was launched and every month since, this MAJOR feature has been promised.  Now, it isn't even on the horizon - 'soon....'.

Erliar Elingsen has lost every shred of credibility.  There is no return for him from this.  Falling on his sword is the only option, and his replacement can then blame him for everything and beg subscribers to give them one more chance in 6 months or so.  Do as you suggest regarding goodwill, and pray that folk come back.

Believe me, I always thought AoC had something going for it, but I recognised what was happening very early, and cancelled before the end of the free month.

I've written numerous posts on various forums about not being taken for a ride by these parasites.  DO NOT pay for games that are in Beta.  Gaming companies need to realise it is NOT  acceptable to release anything but a feature full finished product.

By the way, call me a cynic but isn't it coming around to subs time for this month?

OMG!

"PvP isn't that important to me and I never considered it a main feature" ... HAHAHAHAHA

Let me go dig up the 100 different pre launch videos were he says otherwise ....

Originally posted by Rebn77

OMG!

"PvP isn't that important to me and I never considered it a main feature" ... HAHAHAHAHA

Let me go dig up the 100 different pre launch videos were he says otherwise ....

WoW he actually said that?  I stopped watching half way through.

That is stunning.  Not because I am a PvP fan (although I like PvP) but because its directly against a ton of dev statements

This is the first time I have seen a sense of compunction and regret from Funcom around the failures of AOC. Yes and honesty .It also vindicates us the antagonists of Funcom and just makes the blind support of the game seem ridiculous ..comments like " the game is so cool....nothing wrong with it " etc etc

Its an important step in the right direction if Funcom wants to redeem itself ...the question is ...is it too late ?

Good  interview mmorpg.com

Originally posted by Rebn77

OMG!

"PvP isn't that important to me and I never considered it a main feature" ... HAHAHAHAHA

Let me go dig up the 100 different pre launch videos were he says otherwise ....

You couldnt. be more right.
 

This game was suppose to be the best pvp experience of any game according to Funcom for at least 2 years before it came out with amssive sieges and huge armies battling each other.

How can you say the main feature you advertised a game to have is not a core feature. The only truth he spoke was at the end when he said there is a cut off date to make changes to the box before its sent to the printers.

Sadly Im on slow connection atm so can't look at the video.

But... There is one thing that I agree with EE on.  AOC should NEVER had been about PVP to great degree.  PVE content was the strong point of the game but now the PVE content has been TOTALLY ruined.   Why ?  Because everything had to be balanced on PVP.  Who cares if all tier PVE content is bugged and worthless ?  Well....  Maybe some do ....

Its fun to play PVP on classes that are overpowered...  Sadly no MMO will ever be made that this will not be the fact.  And the fact that there are always loosers will also make other classes crap. 

AOC had really good chance to create something unique.  Real LIVING player cities that grow stronger the more content you do - and the more stronger the guild becomes.  THat does not have to be just PVP content.  Its easy to make it evolve around PVE content and then turn siege battles into both PVE and PVP content.   How awsome would it be to have a major Monster siegie on the city when you have finished for example building up tier 3 (witch involves finishing the tier 3 PVE raidiing).

Guild cities fail simply because they are just houses standing in the middle of nowhere doing absolutly nothing.  Now....  This will be like that forever... simply because the rest of the game is broken to so high extent that it takes all manpower of Funcom to fix the basics.

Its funny, everyone wants them to own up, And when they do... more bitching. This also isnt the first time he has said most of this info, yet people will continue to cry about DX10 (even if they cant use it).

All of his responses seemed completely reasonable to me.

he also says that pvp EXP (as in the pvp lvling system...renown for you war peeps)  isn't a major feature...and i would agree it isn't really...but overall a good interview.....lots of people said they would just be happy if there was an apology, and i'm pretty sure there were about 20 in that interview

however, his comment about the forum moderation not being out of hand almost made me kick my kitten across the room....i've seen many "i quit" posts that were just a goodbye to the community that got banned in mere seconds...with no responses yet (to take the flaming and trolling aspect out of it) i'm sorry, but saying that you quit until things improve is not trolling...he needs to pull his head out of his ass on that issue

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by Rebn77

OMG!

"PvP isn't that important to me and I never considered it a main feature" ... HAHAHAHAHA

Let me go dig up the 100 different pre launch videos were he says otherwise ....

 

WoW he actually said that?  I stopped watching half way through.

 

That is stunning.  Not because I am a PvP fan (although I like PvP) but because its directly against a ton of dev statements

He said that , not in the context being presented. In response to a question in the last interview , he mentioned all major features were in the game they wanted in.

The question (this time around) was in regard to people bringing up the PVP patch, in feedback from that interview. His reasoning(for not including the pvp patch in that analysis) was he "personally" didn't consider the pvp system (XP/fugitive) a major feature. He felt the major features were sieging and city building etc...

His statement had nothing to do with where the developers focused their efforts. Besides sieging is PVP is it not?

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Its funny, everyone wants them to own up, And when they do... more bitching. This also isnt the first time he has said most of this info, yet people will continue to cry about DX10 (even if they cant use it).

All of his responses seemed completely reasonable to me.

People want them to own up to the whole truth and then DO something about it. Not own up to half-truths and then continue down the same, self destructive path.

why can i not find this on the official forums? please tell me it didn't get deleted.....

nevermind...bad-mojo was just being slow today..what a noob

Originally posted by AOCtester

Sadly Im on slow connection atm so can't look at the video.

But... There is one thing that I agree with EE on.  AOC should NEVER had been about PVP to great degree.  PVE content was the strong point of the game but now the PVE content has been TOTALLY ruined.   Why ?  Because everything had to be balanced on PVP.  Who cares if all tier PVE content is bugged and worthless ?  Well....  Maybe some do ....

Its fun to play PVP on classes that are overpowered...  Sadly no MMO will ever be made that this will not be the fact.  And the fact that there are always loosers will also make other classes crap. 

AOC had really good chance to create something unique.  Real LIVING player cities that grow stronger the more content you do - and the more stronger the guild becomes.  THat does not have to be just PVP content.  Its easy to make it evolve around PVE content and then turn siege battles into both PVE and PVP content.   How awsome would it be to have a major Monster siegie on the city when you have finished for example building up tier 3 (witch involves finishing the tier 3 PVE raidiing).

Guild cities fail simply because they are just houses standing in the middle of nowhere doing absolutly nothing.  Now....  This will be like that forever... simply because the rest of the game is broken to so high extent that it takes all manpower of Funcom to fix the basics.

I would agree with you that AoC, or any MMO for that matter, should not center on PVP as its focus.  I think in the long run you have to take a balanced approach and offer something for both sides to enjoy.  The difficulty in this approach is making sure you have balance for PvE and PvP.  This is the problem that all MMO's face when combining pvp and pve and I don't believe there is a game out that has this 100% right.  Maybe it's not possible, who knows.

I would say in response to your post that you are wrong if you believe that PvP ruined the PvE system in AoC.  Let's be logical and admit that neither PvP or PvE in Aoc was well done at launch.  They both have had major issues.  I'll give AoC credit for working to fix some of the instances etc. in the game but both of these systems were bad at launch and are not great now. 

I think his "steak" has a little E. coli or something in it.   ugh ,what a interview.

Originally posted by Cymdai

The problem I have with this particular issue is not that Ellingsen is telling the truth, it's the fact that it took him several months before deciding that honesty was the proper course of action.

This glaring oversight is only magnified by the endless levels of general PR deceit that we've all witnessed over the course of time as well.

I have to question the sincerity of the honesty here, because I genuinely just don't believe Funcom cares, at all, about it's customers (which they've demonstrated through their actions for over 90 days), and I can't help but wonder if this is nothing more than a desparate tactic to try and save face amongst some of their customer base.

However. I do believe this is step 1 in the RIGHT direction for Ellingsen and Funcom. Want to know what would really send a stronger message than a delicate admittance of wrong-doing? Here's my list.

1) Restore forum privileges to all customers who have been banned.

Funcom censored so many people. I have no doubt that many of the banned offenders deserved their punishment, as this game generated a lot of hate. However, many users were banned simply for stating that they were dissatisfied with a product, now inferior and incomplete by admittance of Ellingsen himself, which I don't believe is fair. Or, if Ellingsen would like to test out how absurd the forum moderation is, have him create a few alternate forum names, and post slightly negative things about the game. Maybe if he was banned from his own boards for civilly citing the flaws that lie within it, he'd understand his community's distrust of the company better.

2) Offer a "Return to Hyboria" campaign later this year. Don't you DARE do this without fixing the game first, either. In other words, provide all previously paying customers a full, free month to anyone who had a subscription between May and the present. If the game is truly fixed, people may trickle back in slowly. Do NOT half-ass this, and try to rush it in to compete against Warhammer.

3) Start fixing performance issues. Hell, dedicate a whole month to nothing but performance patches.

4) Shut the PR Hype-and-Lie machines down entirely. Want to know how to undermine the sincerity of any true gesture admitting wrong-doing? Put out an article or a statement that is deliberately misleading the next day. We don't care about how many boxes you sold, nor do we want to hear about the "mature rating", or anything else. We want the game to be fixed, and fun. Rubbing our faces in the dirt is not an intelligible way to keep us excited about the future of Hyboria.

5) Dismiss the idea of an expansion pack for now. Want to hammer a nail in the coffin? Keep talking about the expansion pack when the elements that were supposed to be in your core game aren't even there. I *hope* I speak for everyone when I say that it is preposterous to charge people for things that you failed to deliver in your first game due to technical incompetence. I will personally never even consider re-subbing to this game if an expansion pack is released before this game is repaired.

agree with all points. but the damage is already done. if this game will change for good, it will take around a year maybe, and if Funcom is still on business and they have the resources to do so.  An expansion at this moment is just hype. First they had the nerve to say they will release it early 2009, then changed to late 2009. The PR/Marketing team is a joke.

I perma-banned Funcom and won't ever buy a game from them. Their stock went down to the toilet,  I think people realized that this company really screwed it up, so why to invest on them?

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by Rebn77

OMG!

"PvP isn't that important to me and I never considered it a main feature" ... HAHAHAHAHA

Let me go dig up the 100 different pre launch videos were he says otherwise ....

 

WoW he actually said that?  I stopped watching half way through.

 

That is stunning.  Not because I am a PvP fan (although I like PvP) but because its directly against a ton of dev statements

He said that , not in the context being presented. In response to a question in the last interview , he mentioned all major features were in the game they wanted in.

The question (this time around) was in regard to people bringing up the PVP patch, in feedback from that interview. His reasoning(for not including the pvp patch in that analysis) was he "personally" didn't consider the pvp system (XP/fugitive) a major feature. He felt the major features were sieging and city building etc...

His statement had nothing to do with where the developers focused their efforts. Besides sieging is PVP is it not?

Yes, it wasn't said the way I stated it ... But ....

Sieges, while PvP, didn't work at launch. Since then it's been fixed a bit but I still see posts on the official forums were people are having all kinds of problems with it.

How is the PvP system / levels not a major feature? They have been pushing PvP and saying how important PvP is to AoC for a long time.

Here's a link with an excerpt of an article on the official AoC site regarding PvP levels, and blood coins.

community.ageofconan.com/wsp/conan/frontend.cgi

Gameplay Preview #10 - Blood Money and PVP
Posted: - 18.08.2006

When you travel to the dangerous and blood soaked Border Kingdoms your passage there must be paid for. When you first enter the Border Kingdoms the coin that would be used to pay for that passage is not taken away, but is converted into Blood Coin. Blood Coins is effectively a separate currency to your normal coin.

Defeating other players in PVP combat will result in you being able to loot some or all of the Blood Money that they earned from their previous fights. Everyone in the Border Kingdoms will have some Blood Money value.

In addition all PVP combat earns your character separate PVP exp that goes towards earning your twenty PVP levels and gaining access to special feats and abilities that are exclusive to PVP.
 

Also, I see a few people saying things like "AoC was supposed to be more PvE than PvP" ... Here is a link to an  interview from 2005:

rpgvault.ign.com/articles/632/632603p1.html

(Excerpt)

Jonric: Taking into account the violent nature of the underlying universe, is it correct to assume PvP will be a major element in Age of Conan?

Gaute Godager: Yes. Basically, there are four types of PvP. Naturally, they all have the same types of basic rule set for the player - except one. If you have learned PvP in one part of the game, it should be easy to take it to another. Let me start on this topic by talking a bit about Age of Conan's PvP concept first. No other fantasy license lends itself so well to bloody battle and bloody PvP as the saga of Conan the Barbarian. Here, crushing your enemy is the definition of the soul of the license, and it has grown on us how profoundly that should influence the in-game battles. We are really thankful for having such a clear combat vision to guide us, and it will be something we know will be more brutal and honest than anything you have seen before!
 

Jonric: What kind of thinking process did you go through before you started to design the four-part PvP system you're implementing?

Gaute Godager: It is hard to compare this to any non-multiplayer RPGs as there is nothing like PvP there, naturally - so I am going to refer to the first generation of western MMOs, and looking at what they did to our expectations for PvP. With all due respect to my colleagues, it seems to me as if the early games made PvP unpredictable for the players. Could it be that they hadn't put PvP in the forefront when designing the games - that it was added more as an afterthought?

Those games made killing other players too easy, too unbalanced or too crude - no depth. This led to a high degree of unpredictability for the player - or so it seems - and it made PvP into something you either had to do all the time, or not at all. It wasn't until we got Dark Age of Camelot with Realm vs. Realm, and Anarchy Online's Notum War that PvP really grew into its own. After that, all modern MMOs have seemed to address PvP as something important.

The unpredictability of early MMOs led to a dichotomy in player perception of PvP. You either loved it, or you hated it. Luckily this is now fading, and PvP is in most new MMOs, becoming something you do for fun and purpose, but always in addition to whichever other activities you participate in.

It seems PvP and PvE were about 50/50 prior to the team realizing just how important it is for the world of Hyboria. They then set about pushing PvP to the forefront.

What can I say, other than "too little, too late".

looks like the official AOC forums response to this post is nothing but the typical namecalling and "if you don't like the game don't play it" response. why is it that any negativity is met with that kind of attitude? why are those people so opposed to someone that just wants to see stuff fixed?