Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by banthis

Originally posted by Xennith

theres nothing funnier than WoW players calling each other carebears.

I take that as a major insult especially considering I hate WoW.  Maybe you should kiss off and stop being a hater .. the OP isn't crapping on the Open servers or saying there shouldnt' be any simply stating that he's not some 'carebear' but he'd prefer to play on a core server so he atleast has the 'option' of completing the PvE portions of the game.
 

It'll be near impossible to complete the PvE TOK items since once you reach say Tier 2 you can no longer visit Tier 1 at all.

Well said.

 

I wonder how worthwhile the tactics / abilities are that you get from Tome unlocks and if they'd give a significant advantage?

Why shouldnt you be able to complete TOK pve quests when you are done in tier1 ? as far as i understand it is the plan, that you can only be turned into a chicken in the RVR zones? ^^

Originally posted by Mavkiel

Honestly I was considering going core myself until I thought about it.

When I do try and pvp, do I really want to try and sort out low level peeps from the higher level?

I can already see it on core.. gathering a raid of what you think are decent level people, and find out they were really bolstered and get slaughtered.

Uhh its kinda obvious they're bolstered if they're under level say 8 in Tier 1 they get Bolstered it doesn't Change their level it just Ups their HP and some stats...its obvious right away ... i cringe when i get into scenarios when mostly lvl 1s

Originally posted by Mavkiel

Honestly I was considering going core myself until I thought about it.

When I do try and pvp, do I really want to try and sort out low level peeps from the higher level?

I can already see it on core.. gathering a raid of what you think are decent level people, and find out they were really bolstered and get slaughtered.

When bolstered, people remain the same level if you target them.  The only thing that changes is their stats are recalculated to as if they were actually the same as the bolstered level.

Originally posted by xzeve

Why shouldnt you be able to complete TOK pve quests when you are done in tier1 ? as far as i understand it is the plan, that you can only be turned into a chicken in the RVR zones? ^^

No that's not how it works as they are currently proposing for the Open rules, you go down a tier, you're and you're pretty much clucked.

Originally posted by xzeve

 

Why shouldnt you be able to complete TOK pve quests when you are done in tier1 ? as far as i understand it is the plan, that you can only be turned into a chicken in the RVR zones? ^^

With the open rule set everything is considered an RvR zone.  This is why returning to get tome unlocks will be borderline impossible.

Originally posted by Mavkiel

Honestly I was considering going core myself until I thought about it.

When I do try and pvp, do I really want to try and sort out low level peeps from the higher level?

I can already see it on core.. gathering a raid of what you think are decent level people, and find out they were really bolstered and get slaughtered.

not liker bolster makes all lvl1's 8, while it does for stats, it doesnt mask their lvl.

Bolster just makes it so to have fun in RVR you dont have to be at the end of the tier, cmo nwe all remember WSG where if you went in at 11, you where worthless, you only went in at 18 ish. This makes it so you can go in anytime. WHILE the higher lvls will have the edge due to abilities and such, the bolster gives you a chance, thus if your skill is better ect it wont matter.

I dont see this a issue. I played bolsted plenty of time and still did very well.

To the above poster, lets not confuse RVR and PVP.

Open makes everything a PVP zone.......... Their is still the same amount of RVR zones.

Originally posted by PureChaos

Originally posted by Mavkiel

Honestly I was considering going core myself until I thought about it.

When I do try and pvp, do I really want to try and sort out low level peeps from the higher level?

I can already see it on core.. gathering a raid of what you think are decent level people, and find out they were really bolstered and get slaughtered.

not liker bolster makes all lvl1's 8, while it does for stats, it doesnt mask their lvl.

Bolster just makes it so to have fun in RVR you dont have to be at the end of the tier, cmo nwe all remember WSG where if you went in at 11, you where worthless, you only went in at 18 ish. This makes it so you can go in anytime. WHILE the higher lvls will have the edge due to abilities and such, the bolster gives you a chance, thus if your skill is better ect it wont matter.

I dont see this a issue. I played bolsted plenty of time and still did very well.

 

To the above poster, lets not confuse RVR and PVP.

Open makes everything a PVP zone.......... Their is still the same amount of RVR zones.

 

 

In open you will always be flagged thus making everything and everywhere RvR.  You can argue the semantics all you want.

Originally posted by Locklain

In open you will always be flagged thus making everything and everywhere RvR.  You can argue the semantics all you want.

What part of being a chicken with a 1 dmg attack and 1 hit point, being unable to RvR, PvE or whatever, do you not understand?

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Locklain

In open you will always be flagged thus making everything and everywhere RvR.  You can argue the semantics all you want.

What part of being a chicken with a 1 dmg attack and 1 hit point, being unable to RvR, PvE or whatever, do you not understand?

That only applies if you go down to a lower tier...what part of his post do you not understand?

Originally posted by Hazmal

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Locklain

In open you will always be flagged thus making everything and everywhere RvR.  You can argue the semantics all you want.

What part of being a chicken with a 1 dmg attack and 1 hit point, being unable to RvR, PvE or whatever, do you not understand?

 

That only applies if you go down to a lower tier...what part of his post do you not understand?

The big red part that isn't true?...

But you can't RvR everywhere as you get higher Ranks.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by PureChaos

Originally posted by Mavkiel

Honestly I was considering going core myself until I thought about it.

When I do try and pvp, do I really want to try and sort out low level peeps from the higher level?

I can already see it on core.. gathering a raid of what you think are decent level people, and find out they were really bolstered and get slaughtered.

not liker bolster makes all lvl1's 8, while it does for stats, it doesnt mask their lvl.

Bolster just makes it so to have fun in RVR you dont have to be at the end of the tier, cmo nwe all remember WSG where if you went in at 11, you where worthless, you only went in at 18 ish. This makes it so you can go in anytime. WHILE the higher lvls will have the edge due to abilities and such, the bolster gives you a chance, thus if your skill is better ect it wont matter.

I dont see this a issue. I played bolsted plenty of time and still did very well.

 

To the above poster, lets not confuse RVR and PVP.

Open makes everything a PVP zone.......... Their is still the same amount of RVR zones.

 

 

In open you will always be flagged thus making everything and everywhere RvR.  You can argue the semantics all you want.

Nah im gonna argue semantic because they are different.

Open is PVP everywhere(atleast in your zone), kill guy A in a PvE zone isnt exactly helping the warfront, your not taking a keep or a area. RVR zones have objectives aka giving a reason to kick guy A ass because you want what he has aka a zone DESIGNED to handle RVR.

RVR is alot of things, but one of the major things it is , is it gives a reason to kill guy A besides getting renown or killing him for the sake of killing him. You not only do it for those reasons but to advance your side and screw the other ones over.

You guys are thinking too much of it in terms of low levels. I believe that the differences between both rulesets are the sides of a coin: in Core, you'll have a better fighting experience in the lower levels, but in Open, it'll be better in the higher end; say, tier 4 and sieges. Not only will the players be able to attack Keeps and do objectives in the RvR zones, but they can organize raids into the other areas in order to distract the opposite army, lure them, divide them, etc. I think Open will have a lot more strategy in the high level gameplay, and will be worth the troubles of unbolstered fighting in the first couple of tiers.

Each has its advantages, but for the above reason, I think I'm going Open, as I think it'll be deeper for the "endgame".

Originally posted by tapeworm00

You guys are thinking too much of it in terms of low levels. I believe that the differences between both rulesets are the sides of a coin: in Core, you'll have a better fighting experience in the lower levels, but in Open, it'll be better in the higher end; say, tier 4 and sieges. Not only will the players be able to attack Keeps and do objectives in the RvR zones, but they can organize raids into the other areas in order to distract the opposite army, lure them, divide them, etc. I think Open will have a lot more strategy in the high level gameplay, and will be worth the troubles of unbolstered fighting in the first couple of tiers.

Each has its advantages, but for the above reason, I think I'm going Open, as I think it'll be deeper for the "endgame".

what?

You do relise as you get higher the RVR zone gets bigger, by tier 4 its a good 75% of the map. Opens benefit is MOSTLY in the lower lvls and as you get higher it gets less and less beneficial. By the time of tier 4 its infact goes the otherway due to the chicken mechanics and lower lvl stuff.

Originally posted by tapeworm00

You guys are thinking too much of it in terms of low levels. I believe that the differences between both rulesets are the sides of a coin: in Core, you'll have a better fighting experience in the lower levels, but in Open, it'll be better in the higher end; say, tier 4 and sieges. Not only will the players be able to attack Keeps and do objectives in the RvR zones, but they can organize raids into the other areas in order to distract the opposite army, lure them, divide them, etc. I think Open will have a lot more strategy in the high level gameplay, and will be worth the troubles of unbolstered fighting in the first couple of tiers.

Each has its advantages, but for the above reason, I think I'm going Open, as I think it'll be deeper for the "endgame".

I'd be all for Open too if they'd basically drop the chicken, I don't want to have to miss out on doing some things due to a poorly thought out system.

Originally posted by Noggin

The big red part that isn't true?...

 

But you can't RvR everywhere as you get higher Ranks.

I don't believe anything in the post said you would be able to RvR in a tier 1 zone as a tier 4 player...I guess you can change font color and size all you want, you can't make things appear that never did. 

I believe it said you would be flagged everywhere, which is true.  I also believe that it said RvR would be everywhere, stay with me on this one, if you are flagged everywhere wouldn't that make every zone RvR enabled...making RvR everywhere? 

Now, again I don't believe that post said anything about RvR being going down 2 tiers and fighting lower levels.  I could be wrong, but I think I read it correctly, you did put it in big red letters for me.

Originally posted by Hazmal

Originally posted by Noggin

The big red part that isn't true?...

 

But you can't RvR everywhere as you get higher Ranks.

 

I don't believe anything in the post said you would be able to RvR in a tier 1 zone as a tier 4 player...I guess you can change font color and size all you want, you can't make things appear that never did. 

I believe it said you would be flagged everywhere, which is true.  I also believe that it said RvR would be everywhere, stay with me on this one, if you are flagged everywhere wouldn't that make every zone RvR enabled...making RvR everywhere? 

Now, again I don't believe that post said anything about RvR being going down 2 tiers and fighting lower levels.  I could be wrong, but I think I read it correctly, you did put it in big red letters for me.

You know full well what I meant.

Originally posted by PureChaos

Originally posted by tapeworm00

You guys are thinking too much of it in terms of low levels. I believe that the differences between both rulesets are the sides of a coin: in Core, you'll have a better fighting experience in the lower levels, but in Open, it'll be better in the higher end; say, tier 4 and sieges. Not only will the players be able to attack Keeps and do objectives in the RvR zones, but they can organize raids into the other areas in order to distract the opposite army, lure them, divide them, etc. I think Open will have a lot more strategy in the high level gameplay, and will be worth the troubles of unbolstered fighting in the first couple of tiers.

Each has its advantages, but for the above reason, I think I'm going Open, as I think it'll be deeper for the "endgame".

what?

You do relise as you get higher the RVR zone gets bigger, by tier 4 its a good 75% of the map. Opens benefit is MOSTLY in the lower lvls and as you get higher it gets less and less beneficial. By the time of tier 4 its infact goes the otherway due to the chicken mechanics and lower lvl stuff.

What he said.

I see no reason to go open.  It doesn't so much open the world as it closes it.  What WILL happen is griefing. I promise.  Level 11 guys will kill the level 4 guys doing the PQ.  They will call this 'fair, and open play'.  yes, you can do the same to them.. but griefing has NEVER been fun for me.  So, being griefed..

Being unable to go back tiers (even in your own area) kind of sucks. 

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Hazmal

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Locklain

In open you will always be flagged thus making everything and everywhere RvR.  You can argue the semantics all you want.

What part of being a chicken with a 1 dmg attack and 1 hit point, being unable to RvR, PvE or whatever, do you not understand?

 

That only applies if you go down to a lower tier...what part of his post do you not understand?

The big red part that isn't true?...

 

But you can't RvR everywhere as you get higher Ranks.

Oh come on. . .let me simplify it for you then.  Open rule set RvR everywhere, once you reach tier 2 you cannot go back to tier one without becoming a chicken.  Once you reach tier 3 you cannot go back to tier 2 without becoming a chicken.  Once you reach tier 4 you CAN go back to tier 3 without becoming a chicken.  You are always flagged in the open rule sets THAT IS WHY YOU CAN'T GO BACK TIERS.  The key here is you are always flagged for RvR in the open rule set servers.  That is why you become a chicken when going back tiers that is why RvR is everywhere.

I chose open.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Hazmal

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by Locklain

In open you will always be flagged thus making everything and everywhere RvR.  You can argue the semantics all you want.

What part of being a chicken with a 1 dmg attack and 1 hit point, being unable to RvR, PvE or whatever, do you not understand?

 

That only applies if you go down to a lower tier...what part of his post do you not understand?

The big red part that isn't true?...

 

But you can't RvR everywhere as you get higher Ranks.

Oh come on. . .let me simplify it for you then.  Open rule set RvR everywhere, once you reach tier 2 you cannot go back to tier one without becoming a chicken.  Once you reach tier 3 you cannot go back to tier 2 without becoming a chicken.  Once you reach tier 4 you CAN go back to tier 3 without becoming a chicken.  You are always flagged in the open rule sets THAT IS WHY YOU CAN'T GO BACK TIERS.  The key here is you are always flagged for RvR in the open rule set servers.  That is why you become a chicken when going back tiers that is why RvR is everywhere.

I know exactly how it works and I feel that a better solution would be that players become unflagged when the go into lower level tiers and are able to partake in PvE rather than be turned into a chicken.

The chicken is fine for Core, it works... However it doesn't work with the Open rules.

I can't see why they would make a ruleset that restricts the amount of things you can do in the game.

Originally posted by Noggin

I know exactly how it works and I feel that a better solution would be that players become unflagged when the go into lower level tiers and are able to partake in PvE rather than be turned into a chicken.

 

The chicken is fine for Core, it works... However it doesn't work with the Open rules.

 

I can't see why they would make a ruleset that restricts the amount of things you can do in the game.

This is one of the major problems with the open servers.  However, if they removed the flag so you could go back to lower tiers it would not be open anymore.  Being a beta tester myself I know how the open servers could be an absolute mess if not done correctly.  The open servers were only just thought about not long ago perhaps 3-6 months ago.  That is not enough time to properly implement everything correctly.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Noggin

I know exactly how it works and I feel that a better solution would be that players become unflagged when the go into lower level tiers and are able to partake in PvE rather than be turned into a chicken.

 

The chicken is fine for Core, it works... However it doesn't work with the Open rules.

 

I can't see why they would make a ruleset that restricts the amount of things you can do in the game.

This is one of the major problems with the open servers.  However, if they removed the flag so you could go back to lower tiers it would not be open anymore.  Being a beta tester myself I know how the open servers could be an absolute mess if not done correctly.  The open servers were only just thought about not long ago perhaps 3-6 months ago.  That is not enough time to properly implement everything correctly.

Exactly.

Originally posted by PureChaos

Originally posted by tapeworm00

You guys are thinking too much of it in terms of low levels. I believe that the differences between both rulesets are the sides of a coin: in Core, you'll have a better fighting experience in the lower levels, but in Open, it'll be better in the higher end; say, tier 4 and sieges. Not only will the players be able to attack Keeps and do objectives in the RvR zones, but they can organize raids into the other areas in order to distract the opposite army, lure them, divide them, etc. I think Open will have a lot more strategy in the high level gameplay, and will be worth the troubles of unbolstered fighting in the first couple of tiers.

Each has its advantages, but for the above reason, I think I'm going Open, as I think it'll be deeper for the "endgame".

what?

You do relise as you get higher the RVR zone gets bigger, by tier 4 its a good 75% of the map. Opens benefit is MOSTLY in the lower lvls and as you get higher it gets less and less beneficial. By the time of tier 4 its infact goes the otherway due to the chicken mechanics and lower lvl stuff.

Nope, I didn't know that. In any case my point still stands. Instead of having a "good 75%" of the map participating in RvR, you'll have 100%. In this case, the more the merrier, so Open is still larger and deeper in the endgame, I guess.

Originally posted by tapeworm00

Originally posted by PureChaos

Originally posted by tapeworm00

You guys are thinking too much of it in terms of low levels. I believe that the differences between both rulesets are the sides of a coin: in Core, you'll have a better fighting experience in the lower levels, but in Open, it'll be better in the higher end; say, tier 4 and sieges. Not only will the players be able to attack Keeps and do objectives in the RvR zones, but they can organize raids into the other areas in order to distract the opposite army, lure them, divide them, etc. I think Open will have a lot more strategy in the high level gameplay, and will be worth the troubles of unbolstered fighting in the first couple of tiers.

Each has its advantages, but for the above reason, I think I'm going Open, as I think it'll be deeper for the "endgame".

what?

You do relise as you get higher the RVR zone gets bigger, by tier 4 its a good 75% of the map. Opens benefit is MOSTLY in the lower lvls and as you get higher it gets less and less beneficial. By the time of tier 4 its infact goes the otherway due to the chicken mechanics and lower lvl stuff.

 

Nope, I didn't know that. In any case my point still stands. Instead of having a "good 75%" of the map participating in RvR, you'll have 100%. In this case, the more the merrier, so Open is still larger and deeper in the endgame, I guess.

You also have to think about the population.  How many people will be in the specific RvR lakes if everyone is out roaming around trying to sneak attack someone?  My biggest fear is that there would not be enough people actually attributing to what is necessary to take the capitals.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by tapeworm00

Originally posted by PureChaos

what?

You do relise as you get higher the RVR zone gets bigger, by tier 4 its a good 75% of the map. Opens benefit is MOSTLY in the lower lvls and as you get higher it gets less and less beneficial. By the time of tier 4 its infact goes the otherway due to the chicken mechanics and lower lvl stuff.

 

Nope, I didn't know that. In any case my point still stands. Instead of having a "good 75%" of the map participating in RvR, you'll have 100%. In this case, the more the merrier, so Open is still larger and deeper in the endgame, I guess.

You also have to think about the population.  How many people will be in the specific RvR lakes if everyone is out roaming around trying to sneak attack someone?  My biggest fear is that there would not be enough people actually attributing to what is necessary to take the capitals.

I guess we're gonna have to trust players organizing themselves through guilds efficiently enough as to make use of the entire array of possibilities presented by having an open PvP world-tier. The success of the server depends on us, not the ruelset, but if guilds are good at what they're supposed to do, which is organize and make strategies, then it's gonna be a lot of fun. If they're not, and everyone's roaming around like you say, then yeah, it's gonna suck. I think we're gonna have to trust guilds and players on this one, lol