My guild decided to go core, and I like my guild very much.

But I am beginning to really worry that tihs is the wrong decision for me.

Open ruleset is not about ganking (chicken will stop that) but about warfare across the realm...  Lots of joyous random encounters.

So please remind me, as a PvP lover (which we all are, I assume, in WAR), why should I go core.

Please don't tell me why I should go open, as I know the arguments and am pretty swayed. Just some really intelligent thought out explanations of why pvp will be better in core.

I essentially want to put my mind at rest.

Thanks!

 have a read through this thread;

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/197702

well it's my understanding that open rvr or "core" as you call it will really just give the game more "reality".

Essentially the orange name tag will be removed. Beyond that... I don't think there is too much of a difference.

I am thinking of playing on one of these just to add to the realism of a persitent WAR. TBH I didnt really see too many desto players in the order PQ areas (tier 1 anyway) and vice versa.

IN the upper tiers the opposing faction's chapters are closer in proximity so I am assuming there will be pvp in the pve areas butbeyond that there really isn't much incentive to go in and mess with players doing

PQ's usually have 30 players doing them and running into that bees nest would just be a waste of time

Originally posted by Noggin

 have a read through this thread;

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/197702

Noggin - I read the entire thread.

It was mainly people arguing the merits of open server rulesets.. and the chicken.

But I have sen no compelling argument explaining why the core RvR rulet, with restricted zones, is better for PvP. I am sure there are reasons, and I would like to hear why.

Is it simply so you can act like you are in a pve game when you want to? If so, I can understand core rulesets appealing to pve players.

But why would a pvp player choose it? (chicken access to tiers aside).

I really would like to know.

The only thought I came up with is that focusing all pvp in certan areas was judged to lead to better pvp. But the cost is random player driven pvp. Small hunting parties and so on.

I think I will go core, but I really worry I am effectively choosing the more pve server; when for me its all about the RvR.

My favourite times in WoW were hanging round gadget in tanaris and running around in small scale random pvp there. I fear RvR is all about the zerg.

actually I find the idea of "open" ruleset rather silly. Most players will spend most of their time at max level (like any MMO). Whgen you reach that level 90% of the zones you will be venturing in are open RvR anyways. The game is alread PvP centric so the "core" servers are optimized for that.

Originally posted by markyturnip

Originally posted by Noggin

 have a read through this thread;

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/197702

 

Noggin - I read the entire thread.

It was mainly people arguing the merits of open server rulesets.. and the chicken.

But I have sen no compelling argument explaining why the core RvR rulet, with restricted zones, is better for PvP. I am sure there are reasons, and I would like to hear why.

Is it simply so you can act like you are in a pve game when you want to? If so, I can understand core rulesets appealing to pve players.

But why would a pvp player choose it? (chicken access to tiers aside).

I really would like to know.

The only thought I came up with is that focusing all pvp in certan areas was judged to lead to better pvp. But the cost is random player driven pvp. Small hunting parties and so on.

I think I will go core, but I really worry I am effectively choosing the more pve server; when for me its all about the RvR.

My favourite times in WoW were hanging round gadget in tanaris and running around in small scale random pvp there. I fear RvR is all about the zerg.

 

I personally think the Open would be better for PvP since you can pvp anywhere in the zone that is your level.  Not just in the RvR zones, but Im sure you can flag yourself in Core for PvP so that you can PvP in the normaly non PvP zones.

I always got disapointed in WoW when I saw someone my level but I couldn't try and kill them because we were in a non PvP zone.

Originally posted by markyturnip

Originally posted by Noggin

 have a read through this thread;

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/197702

 

Noggin - I read the entire thread.

It was mainly people arguing the merits of open server rulesets.. and the chicken.

But I have sen no compelling argument explaining why the core RvR rulet, with restricted zones, is better for PvP. I am sure there are reasons, and I would like to hear why.

Is it simply so you can act like you are in a pve game when you want to? If so, I can understand core rulesets appealing to pve players.

But why would a pvp player choose it? (chicken access to tiers aside).

I really would like to know.

The only thought I came up with is that focusing all pvp in certan areas was judged to lead to better pvp. But the cost is random player driven pvp. Small hunting parties and so on.

I think I will go core, but I really worry I am effectively choosing the more pve server; when for me its all about the RvR.

My favourite times in WoW were hanging round gadget in tanaris and running around in small scale random pvp there. I fear RvR is all about the zerg.

Ok cool, it was quite possible you'd missed that thread.

My main argument, which I beleive I posted in that other thread is just the fact that Core is how the game was meant to be played.

Imagine a game of Baseball, but instead of running from 1st base through 2nd, 3rd and 4th they have an alternate set of rules that says you can run to any base after you've hit the ball.... Sure you'd have something like baseball played on the same field, but it's just not how it was meant to be played.

When you PvE in your zones you help your Realm's progression and when you fight in RvR zones you help your Realm. You get Renown for capturing the objectives and whatever. There is no reason nor reward for fighting behind enemy lines other than the self satisfaction of bothering someone which some players seem to hold in such high regard.

The way that the zones have been designed for PvE means that you really don't encounter the enemy when questing. So it's unlikely that anyone from the other side will be kill stealing or whatever, if they are and they're in your zone they will be flagged for RvR and you can just attack them anyway.

It just seems that developing another ruleset other than Core is something of a waste of time, Mythic made a game (compare it to a board game or tabletop game) with a rulebook and that's how it was designed to be played from the ground up, Open is just an afterthought.

im going core because if there is a friend that wants help in lower pve areas i actually can help instead of say oh sorry ill run around as a chicken with and die constantly though. even though tier 4 is the biggest if you dont go core i think it would make it seem like you are cut off from a big portion of the game.

 ok and now we have confirmation of the Open Ruleset, my other argument now stands up that once you leave a tier you aren't going back unless it's to peck around for grain and thus locking you out of much of the ToK content;

Rules:
Players are always RvR flagged from the moment they log in
Chapter 1 hubs and capital cities are safe
There is no bolster buff in RvR lakes
Players will be chickened when entering lower tiers of content

Source: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/198754

Originally posted by Noggin

Ok cool, it was quite possible you'd missed that thread.

 

My main argument, which I beleive I posted in that other thread is just the fact that Core is how the game was meant to be played.

 

....

 

The way that the zones have been designed for PvE means that you really don't encounter the enemy when questing. So it's unlikely that anyone from the other side will be kill stealing or whatever, if they are and they're in your zone they will be flagged for RvR and you can just attack them anyway.

 

It just seems that developing another ruleset other than Core is something of a waste of time, Mythic made a game (compare it to a board game or tabletop game) with a rulebook and that's how it was designed to be played from the ground up, Open is just an afterthought.

I tend to agree, and will almost certainly go Core. But I still don't understand WHY it was designed to be played like this.

Is it so people can do some relaxing pve stuff; or is it because it makes for better pvp?

If it's designed so WAR can appeal to the PVE crowd, then I find it less compelling.

If it's designed because it leads to better PVP.. well, I assume they have spent a lot of time thinking about it - and woudl love to hear why it works better.

Finally, I was told in another thread that there is no feature that flags you for wondering around the other side's pve zone. I don't know either way,, but seems to be disagreement on this point.

Originally posted by markyturnip

Finally, I was told in another thread that there is no feature that flags you for wondering around the other side's pve zone. I don't know either way,, but seems to be disagreement on this point.

Yes you're right about this now that I come to think of it, you don't get flagged when entering your enemies zones.

OP, first of all I rvr 99% of the time I play. I PvE to level 5 then, it's nothing but RvR for me.

And I'm going core.

After 8 hours of strait RvR, if I want to take a break and PvE, then that's what I want to do.

What's make WAR so great is the distinct gameplay options you have.

Solo PvE.

Grouped PvE

Public quests.

Scenarios

RvR

I like that they are distinct and different. And with core, they stay that way.

And I like the RvR objects, and RvR'ing for the objective, not just randomly.

I guess I don't understand what the crying about Core vs Open vs FFA is all about. Really, beyond the chicken in lower tier areas (and from what I've noted they're still working on the when's. where's and why's of that in-game mechanic) Open's not a hell of a lot different than Core.

From what I've seen the tiered areas become more RvR than PvE as you progress, so there will be very little in the way of PvE areas in Tiers 3 and 4 Core. Add in the factor of a very easy leveling structure for the initial 40 ranks there should be very few complaints about people not being flagged while you quest past Tier 2 (I sincerely doubt there's going to be many people extensively hovering around Tier 1 and 2 areas to delay their progression!). That should fairly well satisfy the 'if I see an enemy wandering by I should be able to jump them at my discretion' arguements. Think about it, people, they designed the ever-increasing RvR zones for each consecutive tier to all but FORCE you to be flagged anyway!

As for FFA it lends itself to too many gank squads (the goons come to mind here as an example) and griefers. Hell on PW I saw several level 11 opposition players hovering around the beginner areas, hoping someone would mistake them for an NPC or get stupid and attack them. Don't tell me people don't do this crap, I've seen it plenty. Open rules give Chapter 1's at LEAST a chance to gain some headway into the game before someone cheap-shots them repeatedly.

On a funnier note there were the same level 11 opposition players around one of the PQ's hoping to mess with some lowbies. One of them must have been bored with waiting for people to jump him because he started attacking NPC's....and summarily leveled to 12. Seconds later he was a chicken, followed by dead. DOH!

Originally posted by Noggin

 ok and now we have confirmation of the Open Ruleset, my other argument now stands up that once you leave a tier you aren't going back unless it's to peck around for grain and thus locking you out of much of the ToK content;

Rules:
Players are always RvR flagged from the moment they log in
Chapter 1 hubs and capital cities are safe
There is no bolster buff in RvR lakes
Players will be chickened when entering lower tiers of content

Source: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/198754

we kind of do, wait for when the yrelease the 4.1 patch

or find that 4.1 post

Originally posted by markyturnip

If it's designed because it leads to better PVP.. well, I assume they have spent a lot of time thinking about it - and woudl love to hear why it works better.

You hit the nail on the head with this statement, I believe.

Mythic wants the RvR to have meaning. That's the whole draw of RvR in a game like WAR. People are sick of pointless pvp battles (a la WoW) and feeling like the only purpose to pvp is to get gear.

The way the core server ruleset is laid out, it encourages you to RvR in the areas w/ objectives, and also to take keeps and such. All of these things actually help your realm.

While you may want to run around fighting people all day long, wouldn't you rather do it in a way that helps your realm AND your character? While random fights might be exciting to some, I'd rather feel like I'm actually accomplishing something when I engage in RvR instead of just gaining a bit of renown if/when I kill someone out in the middle of nowhere.

This is what has me really stoked for WAR; the fact that it promotes PRIDE in your realm instead of just yourself.

Mainly because if you're not RVRing or PVPing in the areas that are designed to be fought in, you're not contributing anything to your war effort, and possibly being set back in your progression by fighting in PVE areas.

The only reason you would want to play on an open server, is if you enjoy ganking and being ganked.

In the end, there is enough pvp in this game to get your fill without having to fall victim to unsolicited pvp by some low, self-esteemed asshats every 5 minutes.

 Honestly, the reason I'd choose core over open is my hatred for being ganked.  It is nice to know I won't be bothered until I'm ready to be bothered.  It sounds like this isn't a concern for you.  In your case, I think the open ruleset makes the most sense.

Damn, I don't know which to choose. I like the feeling of having to watch my back, anyone could be lurking to kill me and that sorta thing, so Open RvR sounds better for me. On the other hand, perhaps I won't want to feel like that all of the time.

Hmm, though separating PvE and PvP could lead to too many PvE players, and perhaps there's a chance there wouldn't be much PvP at times when you really want some but it's late and not many people are around, then I'd be bored!

My first experiences of WoW (before they merged the servers for BG's) was joining the Horde on a PvP server, only to have the Alliance to be all PvE'ers - that was annoying, and we'd only see 2 groups of Alliance in the BG's resulting in 2hour+ queues! I don't want to be in that situation again, so yea, Open RvR it's looking like for me... thankfully OB will allow me to test the different servers.

Originally posted by zindel

Mainly because if you're not RVRing or PVPing in the areas that are designed to be fought in, you're not contributing anything to your war effort, and possibly being set back in your progression by fighting in PVE areas.

The only reason you would want to play on an open server, is if you enjoy ganking and being ganked.

In the end, there is enough pvp in this game to get your fill without having to fall victim to unsolicited pvp by some low, self-esteemed asshats every 5 minutes.

Wait, wouldn't Open RvR mean that you would be contributing anywhere you PvP, as there are no PvE areas?

I don't think you need to worry too much about not finding people to PvP with as soon as you tag a PvP objective people start turning up

Originally posted by iCeh

Originally posted by zindel

Mainly because if you're not RVRing or PVPing in the areas that are designed to be fought in, you're not contributing anything to your war effort, and possibly being set back in your progression by fighting in PVE areas.

The only reason you would want to play on an open server, is if you enjoy ganking and being ganked.

In the end, there is enough pvp in this game to get your fill without having to fall victim to unsolicited pvp by some low, self-esteemed asshats every 5 minutes.

 

Wait, wouldn't Open RvR mean that you would be contributing anywhere you PvP, as there are no PvE areas?

Perhaps a bit. But quests, and public quests help to unlock areas. Which is what end game will be all about. So does pvp but I don't have the exact calclations.

Contributing to the war is about unlocking areas and taking adjectives. Not just random PvP. Which is why I'm going core. I want to unlock areas not fart around all day with random rvr.

 Basically, when you RvR in a RvR area you (hopefully) or taking objects which helps your side advance. When you PvP in a PvE area you are not taking objectives. So you are not helping the war effort as much if at all.

It will be the same thing because the ratio RvR/PvE in t4 is 80/20 so unless you want to gank lowbie you should roll with your guild on core .

IMO it will end up the same just with a bit more selfish/ganker community on OPEN .

I hate having a PVE goal or quest in mind and then being prevented from doing it because some clump of players that picked the other faction feel the need to come crap on my ability to have fun and do what I want.

My friend describes such an event as a "retard blockade" because that's what it basically is, some simple-minded jerks getting their jollies off on griefing others.

Considering this game has such a light PVE focus toward endgame anyway, if I choose not to participate in RVR for whatever reason I don't want there to be a chance of running into a retard blockade.  If I'm going to PVP, I'll do it where there's some semblance of rules, fairness, and objective.  Not to give passers-by a hard time.

Originally posted by Noggin 

The way that the zones have been designed for PvE means that you really don't encounter the enemy when questing. So it's unlikely that anyone from the other side will be kill stealing or whatever, if they are and they're in your zone they will be flagged for RvR and you can just attack them anyway.

 

where has this been confirmed at?

they (mythic) hasnt announced the ruleset definitions for core/open yet....

link please?

Originally posted by mscouts77

Originally posted by Noggin 

The way that the zones have been designed for PvE means that you really don't encounter the enemy when questing. So it's unlikely that anyone from the other side will be kill stealing or whatever, if they are and they're in your zone they will be flagged for RvR and you can just attack them anyway.

 

 

where has this been confirmed at?

they (mythic) hasnt announced the ruleset definitions for core/open yet....

link please?

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2272841

It's a bit round about, but you'll find it from that link.

*edit* Oh sorry, I already stated that I was wrong in that assumption somewhere else in this post. You don't get flagged for RvR when entering the enemy zone. I got confused with something else I read.