Originally posted by gestalt11

 

Ah ad hominen the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.

Originally posted by SpectralHunt

Originally posted by gestalt11

Actually this is a rather bad comparison, because while some people may play both games.  WAR or some other game can take subs away from WoW or whoever else is on the top of the heap.

 

Movies don't work that way  even ones that release at the same time are often seen by many of the same people.

Whenever you make comparisons from different genres or industries, of course you don't compare them literally.  But when you do, you compare similarities. 

If WoW were a movie, it would be Titanic.  In order to beat Titanic, you're gonna need a big budget, a story that caters to the general populace and great production values.  A movie with a $100K budget will have no chance to topple Titanic.  How is that a bad comparison?

And I'll even use your comparison.  Movies do compete with one another and not all movies are seen equally.  People make logical decisions on whether to spend their $10 on this movie instead of that movie.  Sometimes they watch both (we can presume many WoW players will try out WAR).  But in the case of popular movies, people see it more than once.  Repeat business is probably the closest analogy we can make to MMO subs.

Actually I think the closest comparison is the Night club scene, but whatever.  I don't really care.  I just would avoid using movies if I were you and the others who are because its pretty flimsy and won't be persuasive.

Pretty much what I've been saying all along. It doesn't take billions of dollars, just a developers that are willing to match Blizzard's high standards of quality.

Originally posted by gestalt11

Actually I think the closest comparison is the Night club scene, but whatever.  I don't really care.  I just would avoid using movies if I were you and the others who are because its pretty flimsy and won't be persuasive.

Fair enough. :)

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by Spaceweed10

Originally posted by gestalt11

500 mil to compete with WoW is complete BS.  Heck if AoC wasn't managed by retarded monkies it probably would have competed well with WoW and it was like what 50 mil?  Even though it was hyped up to pure craziness it still sold 700k boxes. 

 

If they had done the content and had real QA in AoC (even with its, IMO, serious design flaws) which 50 mil could easily have done under better management.  They could have sold 1 mil boxes.

 

500 mil is seriously complete BS.  MJ is probably pretty close.  Plus people have been really tired of WoW for 2 years.  You could probably compete very well with WoW for 50 mil with good mangement and a bit of luck.

 

Oh, you're an authority on the cost of MMO's are you?

 

Remind us of your previous titles made, and costs involved..

 

Ah ad hominen the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.

I think you'll find the term is 'ad hominem', which is quite ironic, n'est pas?

And of course, by attempting to make a clever retort you are able to reiterate the fact that you know absolutely ZERO about the subject matter.

Btw - pwned .

Currently, on the Western hemisphere, there is only one big MMO and that's (obviously) World of Warcraft. The individual gamer can love it, hate it, be indifferent towards it but it doesn't change the fact that this single game is so much more successful than anything else released on the MMO market in the Western world. It is the market leader, it is the natural reference point for all discussions relating to MMO success, number of subscribers, level of public knowledge, and every other market parameter you can set up.

It is meaningless to use it as a benchmark for quality since that touches on elements that are way too subjective to be anything but personal bias but it can (in some ways) be used as a sort of 'most widely appealing business and implementation model'. Just remember to use a pretty wide definition of the term.

The 500 million mark is a statement and it is propably both meant as a sort of warning as well as a slight indication of the kind of money it takes to make the MMO scene into a duopoly instead of a monopoly, ie a market where there are two major players instead of the current situation with only one.

What is not discussed in the two flat statements ("You need 500 million" vs "100 million is enough") is that where the real cave-eat lies is in how those money are spent and how they are managed along the way. So far World of Warcraft has been without serious competition because of all developers, Blizzard has a major reputation for not releasing anything until it is ready to their level of satisfaction, and so far I would deem that they have lived up to their reputation or at least made obvious efforts to do so.

In this day and age, what is important is not only launch (although a bad launch can mean that nothing else really becomes important since the proverbial ship has then set sail and you're stuck with a failure) but the state of your game after 6 months. The 6 month benchmark is where most producers would expect a relatively reliable indication of the possibility of a game's success or failure.

What is important for Warhammer: Age of Reckoning is not to make the same mistakes of other recent games. Have a solid launch with an absolute minimum of server trouble, have lots of content for all levels, no game-breaking bugs or instabilities and servers that keep running flawlessly for the first week. If they can manage that, they will dodge most of the flak from the MMO community, if they don't they will be put in the same box that is now reserved for Age of Conan. Potential was there, execution in orderly fashion was not.

Only a couple of more weeks, then we'll all know.
 

The original post is soooo easy to score against.

It would be a shame not to mark the open goal with no keeper in sight.

But I guess it will be even more fun to see this goal scored by the playing boys themselves in about ...5 weeks time. :)))

Have fun. Cut.

Originally posted by Balthaazar1

I believe Mythic can defintely compete with Warcraft. I know so many people who are burned out on playing WoW that the innitial subs for Warhammer will be through the roof. It also won't be like Funcom's flop because the innital subs will only increase, maybe dip a little when WOTLK comes out, but rise again steadily a few months later. Great job as always Mythic on being honest and realitic with your community.

the game mechanics in WAR are better and hold a better structure for longevity. The war effort makes since in warhammer. in wow you are thrown into an instanced battlefield that has no effect on the real game world. in WAr all levels and tiers contribute to the overall war effort of your faction in the real game world. basically WOW pvp is just thrown in, and only rewards you with gear. if war comes out with a tier 5 expansion shortly after realease, blizzard should be worried.

this game will be sweet and ill think it will be able to compete with wow.  and yes warhammer 40k sounds so godly to me. i follow that universe more closely than warhammer so it woulf mak me very happy to see 40k come out        

And he is right. It is about delivering a game that appeal to a large crowd for a number of reasons, which is uncommon for a MMO, but hardly unique as more and more people have been exposed to the "genre", it is only a matter of time before WoW' enormous playerbase begin to decline and this is already happening.

Just beacuse WAR has signed up for the fight does not mean that it will be any competition for the last 4 years in a row champion.

Originally posted by nitefly

Currently, on the Western hemisphere, there is only one big MMO and that's (obviously) World of Warcraft. The individual gamer can love it, hate it, be indifferent towards it but it doesn't change the fact that this single game is so much more successful than anything else released on the MMO market in the Western world. It is the market leader, it is the natural reference point for all discussions relating to MMO success, number of subscribers, level of public knowledge, and every other market parameter you can set up.

It is meaningless to use it as a benchmark for quality since that touches on elements that are way too subjective to be anything but personal bias but it can (in some ways) be used as a sort of 'most widely appealing business and implementation model'. Just remember to use a pretty wide definition of the term.

The 500 million mark is a statement and it is propably both meant as a sort of warning as well as a slight indication of the kind of money it takes to make the MMO scene into a duopoly instead of a monopoly, ie a market where there are two major players instead of the current situation with only one.

What is not discussed in the two flat statements ("You need 500 million" vs "100 million is enough") is that where the real cave-eat lies is in how those money are spent and how they are managed along the way. So far World of Warcraft has been without serious competition because of all developers, Blizzard has a major reputation for not releasing anything until it is ready to their level of satisfaction, and so far I would deem that they have lived up to their reputation or at least made obvious efforts to do so.

In this day and age, what is important is not only launch (although a bad launch can mean that nothing else really becomes important since the proverbial ship has then set sail and you're stuck with a failure) but the state of your game after 6 months. The 6 month benchmark is where most producers would expect a relatively reliable indication of the possibility of a game's success or failure.

What is important for Warhammer: Age of Reckoning is not to make the same mistakes of other recent games. Have a solid launch with an absolute minimum of server trouble, have lots of content for all levels, no game-breaking bugs or instabilities and servers that keep running flawlessly for the first week. If they can manage that, they will dodge most of the flak from the MMO community, if they don't they will be put in the same box that is now reserved for Age of Conan. Potential was there, execution in orderly fashion was not.

Only a couple of more weeks, then we'll all know.
 

The irony with WoW,  is Blizzard didn't introduce anything new to the genre.  By their own admittance they took the best features from the then current competition, and moulded them into a single game. 

Kudos to them for doing that, because they recognised the marketplace and nailed it.  They made the game simple, colourful, cartoony, extremely solo friendly and dumbed down enough to appeal to folk with limited play time <casuals>, limited attention spans <kids>, and folk with an IQ smaller than their shoe size <most of the above>.

Like it or not, this  covers the large majority of PC gamers and they hooked most of them in.  After this the rest of the gaming companies were playing catch up - and losing in their panic.

They rushed their games out unfinished and made fools out of Joe Public.  All this succeeded in doing was push people back to their comfort zone <WoW> and make them deeply suspicious of any MMO which tried to force its way into what has now become 'WoWworld'.

The 2nd irony is that fact that a lot of folk are looking to get away from WoW.  Every time a new game gets ready for release, mass hysteria breaks out as to whether it will be the 'WoWkiller' or not.  As the dude above me alludes to, if War can get the basics right during the initial phase of release, they have more than a good chance of grabbing a fair chunk of the MMO playerbase.

WoW has peaked many moons ago, and is on a slippery downward slope.  It is dated in graphics and gameplay.  Blizzard have recognised this already, hence they have something new in production and have had for a while.

WoW is easy money for them whilst ever it has servers.  I admire Blizzard as a company, but I wish they would push the bar up next time and not just create something to appeal to the also-ran.  They have the know how and the funds to create something really outstanding, ground breaking, challenging and thought provoking.

Will they do it?  Probably not..

I think WAR will give WoW competition. IF they can manage to get 1-2 millionsubscribers between NA/EU then mission complete =D if they can manage to sway 1-2 million wow subscribers then blizzard will be like "wtf, do something to get those subscribers back".

WAR ............. or WotLK..............

From what we've seen and heard and played  so far,  the score is 100 - 1

So in my opinion, yes, WAR will be bringing out the competition gloves. It will also be around much longer than WoW.

WoW will always will have diehards, even after it becomes completely obsolete. but before then it it will slowly decline, and be come EQ, with a possible sequel, which could be good, or just  WoW now with better graphix and PvP to try and compete with WAR.

WoW 2.. Mh. No thanks.

Originally posted by Firebrawn

WAR ............. or WotLK..............

 

From what we've seen and heard and played  so far,  the score is 100 - 1

 

So in my opinion, yes, WAR will be bringing out the competition gloves. It will also be around much longer than WoW.

The last statment is odd indeed. Another blizzard game Starcraft released in 1998 is still going strong I can log into battlenet and see thousands of games going on, I can walk in most Games shops and buy Starcraft off the shelf... same for Warcraft and Diablo.
 

WoW will be around for a long time, its 4 years old now and its population (paid subscribers) has done nothing but grow its still around the 10 million mark (4.5million western). I still dont understand why most people think WoW subs will plumet over night because yet another pretender to the thrown as stepped up. WoW will show WAR the door just as it has all the others.

On topic WoW did not have 500 million or probably either 100 million to develope the original WoW, sure they have that kind of cash now.. but they are developing Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, Wrath and a another MMO.  Blizzard was small quality developer before WoW and was handed around between several owners.. that was untill WoW took off mostly on word of mouth and great reviews.. then it all changed.

Theres room for WAR but you have to ask your self WAR might have all these PvP features but does it play well? (in my experince its meh) how will the game play a few month after launch when the majority of the player base is max cap.  How many times can you raid an enemy city before it becomes boring?  If most of the players are max cap who will be around to play the PQ's? who will be around to capture the low level PVP objectives so are apparently so key to the uper tiers?

I think the next big game will need the action up front, no traditional leveling.

Think cod4/Gta with a real world and an economy.

This is what i think the future of mmo's will look like LINK 

Anyone that takes those numbers the Blizz dude spit out seriously is a seriously slow person.

WoW has had it's day. I played since open Beta and it's just plain gone flat. Grinding for gear by way of extremely repetitive PvP instances and mindlessly boring raiding drags. There's very little dynamic to WoW at all. It's all cookie-cutter in depth and scope and WotLK really won't do much but provide 10 more levels of the same. I've quit the game and I'm not looking back.

WAR offers a lot more on the dynamic side, especially when it comes to PvP/RvR. Sure, there's the lot of PVE-based quests, but the grind effect just isn't there - at least not from what I saw in the preview weekend. I'm not chasing for bear claws hoping like hell I can get 10 in the next 50 - 100 kills. WoW's FULL of those boring quests.

The PQ system is fairly innovative: it allows you to help your side, gain xp and possibly some rewards. You can join in to help others or pass on by, it's ALWAYS your choice. A game that give me choice wins every time.

RvR in WAR alone blows WoW away when it comes to PvP. Let's face it, world-based PvP in WoW died ages ago, and it never really had any end goal. With RvR in WAR you HAVE an end goal. Hell, you have many of them, and it'll be a challenge to boot (think a PUG's gonna take on a capital city? Ever seen a PUG in WoW beat a raid dungeon? Enough said).

WoW was a fun game for me. It was new, fresh and had a lot of features I loved, but it's dated.

It shouldn't matter what a game costs to develop. If it brings to the MMO community the innovations and dynamics that draw in players and can keep them anxious to see what's just around the next bend, it's a winner.

Originally posted by Cruise

WoW has had it's day. I played since open Beta and it's just plain gone flat. Grinding for gear by way of extremely repetitive PvP instances and mindlessly boring raiding drags. There's very little dynamic to WoW at all. It's all cookie-cutter in depth and scope and WotLK really won't do much but provide 10 more levels of the same. I've quit the game and I'm not looking back.

WAR offers a lot more on the dynamic side, especially when it comes to PvP/RvR. Sure, there's the lot of PVE-based quests, but the grind effect just isn't there - at least not from what I saw in the preview weekend. I'm not chasing for bear claws hoping like hell I can get 10 in the next 50 - 100 kills. WoW's FULL of those boring quests.

The PQ system is fairly innovative: it allows you to help your side, gain xp and possibly some rewards. You can join in to help others or pass on by, it's ALWAYS your choice. A game that give me choice wins every time.

RvR in WAR alone blows WoW away when it comes to PvP. Let's face it, world-based PvP in WoW died ages ago, and it never really had any end goal. With RvR in WAR you HAVE an end goal. Hell, you have many of them, and it'll be a challenge to boot (think a PUG's gonna take on a capital city? Ever seen a PUG in WoW beat a raid dungeon? Enough said).

WoW was a fun game for me. It was new, fresh and had a lot of features I loved, but it's dated.

It shouldn't matter what a game costs to develop. If it brings to the MMO community the innovations and dynamics that draw in players and can keep them anxious to see what's just around the next bend, it's a winner.

War will definantly be a great game , however i doubt it will take wow to the ruin. Wow  keeps on attracting new players and bliz has the money to translate it to different languages thus opening up even a broader player base.

Yes wow does get stale, but then its simplicity is what makes it so damn big. anyone can get into it.  Its like the darn ipod. Simple and easy to use.

war is sounding like the zune. has much more features than the ipod yet it did little to even attempt to replace the ipods dominance.

both games will still be big even after a year or so.  They are based on popular franchises and 2 respectable companies.