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Hi All Now before people say “shame he’s a cry baby and doesn’t know how to PVP”...or “stop being a care bear “for an MMO to succeed it can’t just have hard-core PVP’s as its subscription base .I don’t know of an MMO that allows full looting ...I may be wrong but the reason for this is clear .Even hardcore PVP’s would become frustrated if they couldn’t retain any items . Later :) "after the time of dice came the day of mice " |
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9/01/08 7:16:03 AM#2
Originally posted by bcrankshaw
Gears lost will be easily replaced. All gears that is in the Darkfall world can be created by Crafters. Some will be harder to make cause the crafter skill will need to be higher and the rescources needed will most likely be harder to find. Darkfall dont "spin" arround the importance of gear as WoW and other themepark games does. It will be a piece of cake having like 4-5 spare sets in the bank. And remember YOU can be the one looting the other guy. =) Have a nice day
Aragon - Member of B@D guild |
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Originally posted by Aragon100
Gears lost will be easily replaced. All gears that is in the Darkfall world can be created by Crafters. Some will be harder to make cause the crafter skill will need to be higher and the rescources needed will most likely be harder to find. Darkfall dont "spin" arround the importance of gear as WoW and other themepark games does. It will be a piece of cake having like 4-5 spare sets in the bank. And remember YOU can be the one looting the other guy. =) Have a nice day
Okay maybe I just dont understand the concept .I play UO ,Vanguard and Everquest 2 at the moment so maybe I need to experience the crafting aspect of Darkfall and replacing items . The only problem with that is if you die and lose everything you can't return quickly to where you were to continue to fight as you will have to now replace items lost ? I really can't see it being enjoyable or a sign of a good PVP experience ...but I'll try it and then comment :) "after the time of dice came the day of mice " |
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9/01/08 7:35:47 AM#4
OP, I apologize for not addressing your entire post of concerns, but i am very tired and on my way out so i just want to comment on one thing that jumped out in your post. There are no levels in DF, so being attacked by someone 20-30 levels higher wont happen. Now of course just because there arent levels, doesnt mean certain chars arent trained in combat more than you will be and be better given the situation of the encounter. But one cool thing that the devs have said is that a handful of brand new players would be able to kill a hardened veteran of the game if they worked together well. Unlike the vast majority of other games where a few brand new players probably couldnt even hit the max lvl player. ~~ Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296 "The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester "If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos |
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9/01/08 7:38:14 AM#5
Originally posted by bcrankshaw
Okay maybe I just dont understand the concept .I play UO ,Vanguard and Everquest 2 at the moment so maybe I need to experience the crafting aspect of Darkfall and replacing items . The only problem with that is if you die and lose everything you can't return quickly to where you were to continue to fight as you will have to now replace items lost ? I really can't see it being enjoyable or a sign of a good PVP experience ...but I'll try it and then comment :)
Well yes that is certainly no fun, and no one likes to have lost and then also have to deal with the consequences of losing a fight. But the fun comes in the form of added excitement during the fight and leading up to the fight. That suspense of actual pvp losses and gains. In other mmos you die or kill someone and you move on. A corpse run, thats it. No mark on the world, both parties will probably never remember it a few hours later. There really isnt much point besides a brief excitement of trying pvp, but that eventually fades. ~~ Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296 "The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester "If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos |
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9/01/08 7:45:36 AM#6
There's something contradictory here, you claim that it won't be such a deal to be looted because the items are easily replaced. 2 questions then: 1) What is the point in looting someone for some crap gear that you already have in your bank 4 or 5 times? 2) Where's the thrill in dying, maybe you don't get to do a corpse-run, but you must do a bank-run to get another set of armor ><
If the items are valuable then your argument is invalid and being ganked will get many ppl pissed off. IMO FFA games are only for people who enjoy making others suffer, to my eyes they're like griefers. Going with your 20-man party hunting people it's not fun because of the fight, I'm sure they laugh at how easy it was to kill that guy and enjoy his suffering and whines. |
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daarco
 Apprentice Member
Joined: 12/19/06
I have Darkfall now! |
9/01/08 8:26:26 AM#7
This game isnt about gear. Items are just items. If you loose something, get a new one. If a item get smashed to piecies in combat, get a new one. The problem is that other players maybe wont sell to you because you are a enemy or something. After a big war there might be a shortage of items. Please do not think in WoW terms here. And i dont get this: "I there isnt any über items, whats the point with items?" You will want to have a sword in tour hand in combat, if you loose the sword you get a new sword. How could that be difficult to understand?? |
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9/01/08 8:28:57 AM#8
Originally posted by daarco
Again, since it isn't about gear, what's the point on looting your enemy? |
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daarco
Apprentice Member
Joined: 12/19/06
I have Darkfall now! |
9/01/08 8:41:25 AM#9
You dont have to loot anyone, you can if you want to. Maybe you need gold, a new helmet or whatever. Maybe your clan is getting ready for war? And remember that items will decay in DF, so you need to repair or get a new one.
Seriously! It would be better to explain why you shouldent have full loot! |
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9/01/08 8:45:44 AM#10
Originally posted by Skizo87
Again, since it isn't about gear, what's the point on looting your enemy?
This is why full looting doesn't make any sense. And if gear isn't worth anything, then what is the point of crafting?
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daarco
Apprentice Member
Joined: 12/19/06
I have Darkfall now! |
9/01/08 8:59:31 AM#11
Originally posted by ghoul31
This is why full looting doesn't make any sense. And if gear isn't worth anything, then what is the point of crafting?
Exactly! Its as in the real world, here items isnt woth anything. Still everyone want them. You can loose items and you can steal items. And that you can also do in Darkfall. And for the first time there is a poin into crafting, other players will fight wars or sail across the word with the items from the crafters. What is the purpose with crafting i WoW??
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9/01/08 9:17:53 AM#12
If anyone ever played Asheron's Call (I didn't play Darktide though) most people had multiple sets of gear. Basically you had your uber stuff that you would wear when there was virtually no chance of dying, and you had your easily replaceable stuff that you would often change into when going off on a quest in which there was a good chance you would not make it back from. I realize there will be more of a chance to die at any time in Darkfall, but to some extent I think this practice will probably be present in Darkfall. Also, in a game with a player driven economy (such as Asheron's Call was), it will be easier to replace items than in a game where you have to grind to earn 1 million gold to pay a NPC vendor for the next weapon in a very linear gear progression. |
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9/01/08 9:19:25 AM#13
Originally posted by daarco
in WOW, a high level craftsman can make rare items, and sell them for lots of money. In darkfall, people arent going to spend tons of money on rare items that they will lose in the next battle. Why would anyone spend a lot of time to become a great crafter if he wont get rewarded for it? In the real world, i don't have stuff stolen constantly. If I did, I would never buy nice things
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9/01/08 2:29:29 PM#14
Darkfall is a hardcore game for hardcore pvpers. Plenty of games out there that offer meaningless pvp. The Fallen Brigade - Mount and Blade Warband Clan |
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9/01/08 2:45:45 PM#15
Originally posted by Skizo87
Again, since it isn't about gear, what's the point on looting your enemy?
Good gear (dont read WoW ubergear) is gonna play a huge part in wether you win a fight or not. Good gear will get you a theoretical upperhand before you started the fight. Take a 1 vs 1 fight btw one guy with good gear and one with no gear except a newbie sword. The guy without the good gear can win if he is the more skillful one and he will be most satisfied looting the other guys better gear after the fight. So the incenties for a good economy where the crafters items is appreciated is built into Darkfall. In UO with gears very close to the ones in Darkfall the economie were flourishing and everything the crafters created were used.
Aragon - Member of B@D guild |
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9/01/08 2:47:30 PM#16
Items are usefull, and they are important but they are not overpowered there are no epic items in the game. Everthing can be crafted by the players, including the best gear; you will need items for WAR and casual PVP but items, mounts can be replaced people will be competing over resources to craft them so guilds will be able to stockpile the items that they need. Also items have wear and tear, they will break and can be reapired but they will eventually reach a point where they have to be scrapped. DF is an Action MMOFPS, items are useful props in a world were Guilds will use sheer strength and political know how to outwit the opponent. This is not a traditional MMO, community, politics and player skill comes into play. There are no levels, this is a skill based game; when a player looks on another character he will have no indication of what his skill and capabilities are; you will have a an alignment system in game as well so if people choose to go down the path they will have to find a small corner somewhere in the world to establish a base in order to survive. Hope this helps. |
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9/01/08 3:04:22 PM#17
Originally posted by Aragon100
In UO , people kept their magic items in the bank because they didnt want to lose them. So they just sat in the bank and were never used. So the system was a failure.
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9/01/08 3:16:27 PM#18
Ghoul (and other people who just want to dismiss this game as a gankfest that wont work), Try putting a little more thought into your posts besides just claiming that it "wont work". This is why i believe it will work: If you have some really great gear, maybe not the WoW equivalent of a legendary item, but maybe a good mix of the best "purples" and "blues", yes you arent going to be afking in the middle of a swamp with them on. However there seems to be a misconception that death = items going poof. Im sorry but that is wrong. I think someone even mentioned what if your die tanking in a PVE encounter. Think about it....Yea you are going to die, but you can easily give yourself a good chance to keep your loot if you do die. Say you go out pvping in your above average gear like i explained above, but with a group of 5. Yea if you run into a group of 3-6 players, some people are probably going to die in your group. But no one is losing their loot as long as your group wins the fight. The last person standing can loot any corpse...INCLUDING YOURS...if he cant rez you and save your most important loot for you, assuming he can keep it safe till you get back. Yes i know that requires some *gasp* coordinating and not just running blindy into an area and saying "wtf those guys ganked me what noobs this is a zergfest wtf kind of game is this i quit". It adds some challenge that this genre has been missing for a long time in pvp. Challenge that you wont find in AoC, WoW, WAR, etc.... Best thing i can compare it to is in EVE, though it has its differences. I remember one time when i was a huge noob in EVE, i was flying with 5 other battleships and we got completely wrecked by a group of cruiser and battlecruiser class hull ships that were just designed and PLANNED better than us. Even though we were bigger and more poweful with our weaponry, their tactic completely shut us down and we could do nothing but sit there in awe. It was one of the best experiences for the mature players in our group because we loved that that kind of encoutner was a possibility and we quickly learned about the skills the other team was using and what ships they had. (and the group was more than happy ot say good fight and tell us everything about them) ~~ Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296 "The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester "If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos |
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9/01/08 3:20:45 PM#19
The thrill of full loot doesn't come from the fact that you can loot other people's corpses (although that's added value imo This makes the game much more exciting, tactical and worthwhile. You get a much bigger adrenaline rush fighting someone when you know the loser is going to be looted naked and unable to participate in the combat until he has re-equpied himself. Non looting games seem rather pointless in comparison. If you are non competitive or easy to rile I suggest you steer well clear and stay in themepark type mmo's.
Edit: Anyway aside from full loot, games like this are really about metagames such as interguild politics and stuff like that, full loot is needed to make this as dynamic as possible. |
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9/01/08 3:28:11 PM#20
Originally posted by Blodpls
The problem is that after you die, you need to spend the next 3 days farming to to afford new gear. So you will spend 99% of your time farming, and 1% of your time PVPing. That doesn't sound like a PVP game to me. It sounds like a farming game, with a tiny bit of PVP thrown in.
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), it comes from the fact that YOUR OWN gear can be looted. 