Originally posted by shoshodem

I'm not sure, but I believe I read something about payed-beta testers. If this is true, I think it will honestly be for the best. I'm not sure though. I don't recall where I read it at. I'll have to find the link. I hope so. It'd be nice to see its on its way to completetion. I believe a few months ago they officially announced their stock. So, something has to be going on.

Yes, the closed beta has professional testers only. The "beta" for us, will be a promotional pilot test for most of the part.

Is this endless debate remarkable?  Both sides putting up such a lengthy argument and yet after years, it is still the same old stalemate.  Why?

Simple, because aventurine has NOT issued any materials worthy of substance.  Long text of words, frequently through unidentifiable persons, fans friends, whoever he is we never know.  Or claims from the developer, in broad brush text : AIs that help beta test.  How does it work?  How does it help, in which aspect?

So the rest of the people here can argue and talk and argue and talk.  But no one can disprove anyone b/c no one can prove anything.

This leads to the final proposition here: aventurine is not stupid, the tasos or whoever he is is not stupid.  He is very clever, he blow his horn and then bury himself deep in the ground, occasionally yelling and making some smoke or dust thru his hell hole.  We can never prove he is right or wrong, we never know who where he is.  We never know anything, and for 7 years we know nothing.

How long will this last?  God knows, or maybe even god does not know.  Keep the argument going.  Its just like a soap opera, watch and forget.

Originally posted by lotharr

 They haven't given us a release date, except for the 2008 estimate. It's the beta date indeed. Also, the beta will mostly be a PR trial of the game, not an actual test. The game has been in closed beta for a long time now, where most of the actual testing has been done.

They said the game will launch within 2008, with public beta proceeding it by a few weeks.  If you want to get picky, the latest possible release date within 2008 would be Dec 31.

Yes, they have been in closed beta.  A longer one than normal.  That still will not be a substitute for large scale testing, IMO.  They will be in for a rude awakening if they rely too heavily on tools and simulations.

And we can be fairly confident the "pro testers" largely consist of the local college interns they were recruiting. 

All this makes it tough for me to have a warm fuzzy about the state of the game.  YMMV.

LOL@OP

LOL

LOL

LOL

LOL

That's all I have to contribute.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door.

Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door. Priceless

Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle?

Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars

Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars

Debating with trolls - 0 dollars

Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless

QFT.

A gem, good sir. A gem.

i think shadowbane isnt the best example.... think of irth online as a better one.

i would recommend to read the full story at ganked.com because i think it shows a few similarities to DF.

but as everyone here, i hope it will be sth. different, sth. new...

Originally posted by terminaldogm

Originally posted by TdogSkal

So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door.

Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door.    Priceless

Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle?

Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars

Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars

Debating with trolls - 0 dollars

Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless

You're not a very bright one, are you?

Lets talk about vaporware.  Like DNF, the phantom console, etc.  Here is the wiki definition of vaporware:

Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar software/hardware product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.

So, if you had the slightest idea what you were blabbering about, you'd see several things:

1.  DF obviously fits the definiton of vaporware.  Hell, it should be listed as an example.

2.  The title of "vaporware" has already been earned.  DF could magically reach 100% completion tonight and come out tomorrow.  It would still be vaporware.

3.  Financial reality may be setting in...since it is fairly clear that DF is not a hoax, the game eventually has to be a) abandoned or b) released.  B is more attractive as it means SOME money can be recouped.

4.  Same thing happend w/ VG between Microsoft and SOE.  We all know what VG was like at release, and it definitely had well-documented development and an extended closed / open beta.

5.  Something usually does come out of vaporware...the phantom console / service became...the phantom lapboard. 

So, short version:  Yes, its vaporware.  It either will be eventually abandoned, or will be released in a horrid state simply to get some of the money invested back.  No, it doesn't matter which happens. 

Now, kindly STFU and return to fantasy land.

quoting and highlighting the 2 funniest parts of your post - the part that disproves your theory that you yourself quoted, and the part where you pwn yourself.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door.

Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door.    Priceless

Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle?

Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars

Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars

Debating with trolls - 0 dollars

Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless

QFA

Originally posted by javac

Originally posted by terminaldogm

Originally posted by TdogSkal

So lets let me get this Straight. The haters are now claiming that it is not Vaporware but that the game will be shitty and it is being rushed out the door.

Hmmm I dont know what to say.... Its amazing that last week these same people were trolling about how long Darkfall is taking and because its been 7 years its vaporware... now after 7 years its beening rushed out the door.    Priceless

Make up your mind haters... is it Vaporware because of the long development cycle or is being rushed out the door because of its long development cycle?

Logging into MMORPG.com - 0 dollars

Reading the Darkfall forum - 0 dollars

Debating with trolls - 0 dollars

Watching the trolls change their story to fit the latest news - priceless

You're not a very bright one, are you?

Lets talk about vaporware.  Like DNF, the phantom console, etc.  Here is the wiki definition of vaporware:

Vaporware is a somewhat derogatory term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar software/hardware product. The term implies unwarranted optimism, an as yet unannounced abandonment of a project, or sometimes even deception; that is, it may imply that the announcer knows that product development is in too early a stage to support responsible statements about its completion date, feature set, or even feasibility. However, most vaporware would not be considered a hoax since the makers have a genuine intention to create their product, even if it ultimately never materializes. Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.

So, if you had the slightest idea what you were blabbering about, you'd see several things:

1.  DF obviously fits the definiton of vaporware.  Hell, it should be listed as an example.

2.  The title of "vaporware" has already been earned.  DF could magically reach 100% completion tonight and come out tomorrow.  It would still be vaporware.

3.  Financial reality may be setting in...since it is fairly clear that DF is not a hoax, the game eventually has to be a) abandoned or b) released.  B is more attractive as it means SOME money can be recouped.

4.  Same thing happend w/ VG between Microsoft and SOE.  We all know what VG was like at release, and it definitely had well-documented development and an extended closed / open beta.

5.  Something usually does come out of vaporware...the phantom console / service became...the phantom lapboard. 

So, short version:  Yes, its vaporware.  It either will be eventually abandoned, or will be released in a horrid state simply to get some of the money invested back.  No, it doesn't matter which happens. 

Now, kindly STFU and return to fantasy land.

 

quoting and highlighting the 2 funniest parts of your post - the part that disproves your theory that you yourself quoted, and the part where you pwn yourself.

Javac, please read what is in the blue...Then show me how the eight years of development on Darkfall have been verified...Really...Show me an ounce of evidence other than quoted statements of Tasos (who isn't the most trustworthy of men) that backs your claim. 

I apologize Javac, but Darkfall is vaporware, and will continue to be so until it is released.  Even THEN it can still be considered vaporware if the game is far from the standards set by Adventurine.

But really, what does a label mean?  Fucking nothing, idiot.  The fact is we've another promise to wait for, and we still don't have that video we were waiting on... Fucking shit...

That definition of vaporware was written for Darkfall! I always thought vaporware meant hoax, but apparently not. There have been no demonstrations of verifiable progress, just a bit of carrot-dangling. It's not the same at all. They use verifiable for a reason. Tasos has given as little as he can while keeping the gullible happy.

Originally posted by TheHoweller

 

Fucking nothing, idiot.  The fact is we've another promise to wait for, and we still don't have that video we were waiting on... Fucking shit...

lol these guys make my heart smile

Originally posted by originalegg

Originally posted by TheHoweller

 

Fucking nothing, idiot.  The fact is we've another promise to wait for, and we still don't have that video we were waiting on... Fucking shit...

 

 

lol these guys make my heart smile

I'm glad someone pays attention to me!  "runs crying into egg's arms*

God, your post may have insulted my forum dignity...But it sure was funny.

lolcats solve everything.  if only they were around during WW1 and WW2...

lolcats are amazing.

About DARDKFAIL, it's not going to happen. And if it does, it will be so bad it will make lolcats cry. And this is very bad.

Originally posted by altairzq

lolcats are amazing.

 

About DARDKFAIL, it's not going to happen. And if it does, it will be so bad it will make lolcats cry. And this is very bad.

So your saying that Darkfall only has 2 possiable outcomes?  Not releasing or sucking on release?

How did you come up with that... what about 2 more opinions... It is great on release or it is playable on release?

You trolls are amazing.... Last week It was "it will never come out, its vaporware"... this week its "It will suck on release or not come out at all."  Way to cover your asses.

Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff.

That's actually one more reason the game could fail. No one will pay to play it if it actually does release because of it's gameplay style.

It's basically just like Asheron's Call 1 on the Dark tide server and no one ever used to play there either..  always empty because of it's hardcore style...  It drives people away.. doesn't attract them.

Wouldn't it be funny if the game actually launches with everything they say and it ends up failing because of it's style of play?

Either way.. Darkfall will never have a huge population because of how they built it. And that may very well be it's final undoing.

Irony at it's best.

except they dont want it to be a pk fest and with the alignmeant system it should help alot.

Shadowbane wouldnt have failed if the game had abetter engine and didnt have bad implimation of its features. and thats why allt he ppvp games that have come out since fail is becuase of bad releases or are just pure crap.

Originally posted by tsitluc

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff.

That's actually one more reason the game could fail. No one will pay to play it if it actually does release because of it's gameplay style.

It's basically just like Asheron's Call 1 on the Dark tide server and no one ever used to play there either..  always empty because of it's hardcore style...  It drives people away.. doesn't attract them.

Wouldn't it be funny if the game actually launches with everything they say and it ends up failing because of it's style of play?

Either way.. Darkfall will never have a huge population because of how they built it. And that may very well be it's final undoing.

Irony at it's best.

Darkfall does not need a big population.  Something along the line of EvE works for me and most other players looking at Darkfall.

Also Darkfall has never been prompted as a WOW killer or the next big MMO.  It has always been a niche game and it will always be a niche game... Most people that want to play it are hoping that it is the start of bring the MMO genre back from the "Dark Ages" we are currently in.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by altairzq

lolcats are amazing.

 

About DARDKFAIL, it's not going to happen. And if it does, it will be so bad it will make lolcats cry. And this is very bad.

 

So your saying that Darkfall only has 2 possiable outcomes?  Not releasing or sucking on release?

How did you come up with that... what about 2 more opinions... It is great on release or it is playable on release?

You trolls are amazing.... Last week It was "it will never come out, its vaporware"... this week its "It will suck on release or not come out at all."  Way to cover your asses.

Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff.

Yeah Darkfall will be awesome, you can go PK yourself over and over and lose your stuff to yourself wooohooooooo .

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Darkfall does not need a big population.  Something along the line of EvE works for me and most other players looking at Darkfall.

Eve has a big population!