Originally posted by jusagamfrek

And the hate goes on. 

If you'll all remember (and let's face it, most of you probably weren't even aware of what MMOs were back then), WoW took all kinds of heat before it's launch because it did nothing new or innovative.  WoW was successful because it took the best of all the other games from the time and did it better.  Through the beta, WAR has struck me as following this ilk.  There are a lot of people on the fence about playing WAR because everyone that has played the game has also done a poor job of explaining why it's so good (myself included).  WAR isn't the most innovative game out there, but it emulates the best and does everything better.  WAR will draw crowds. $.02

Blizzard is notorious for capitalizing on other peoples ideas, there was a thread around here somewhere that lists every single Blizzard game and where they stole the ideas from. Food for thought.

why should anyone leave a game for another game, when the 2 games is so immensly different?

isnt it really possible to play them both? or is everyone extremly primitive, and can eather like metal or techno music, but not both? makes 0 sence.

im gonna play them both, no reason to leave something else, if you like what you got.

Originally posted by Hoobla.Dan

Funny enough, one of the things I'm most looking forward to in WAR is the Tome of Knowledge. I'm really hoping that it's totally awesome.

WotLK has achievements coming up, but I don't think it's the same.

Same here about Tome Of Knowledge, I really enjoyed the brief moment I could spend in CB and ToK really stood out for me aswell the humor involved thru out the game, AND.......i felt WAR had a much darker look where WOW looks more fluffy sort of speak ( in hopes people understand what I meant with this)

one good reason, just visit the green skins areas and talk to the NPCs.

Originally posted by Arcken

Originally posted by jusagamfrek

And the hate goes on. 

If you'll all remember (and let's face it, most of you probably weren't even aware of what MMOs were back then), WoW took all kinds of heat before it's launch because it did nothing new or innovative.  WoW was successful because it took the best of all the other games from the time and did it better.  Through the beta, WAR has struck me as following this ilk.  There are a lot of people on the fence about playing WAR because everyone that has played the game has also done a poor job of explaining why it's so good (myself included).  WAR isn't the most innovative game out there, but it emulates the best and does everything better.  WAR will draw crowds. $.02

 

Blizzard is notorious for capitalizing on other peoples ideas, there was a thread around here somewhere that lists every single Blizzard game and where they stole the ideas from. Food for thought.

Stole? How uninformed some people are. You do realise Blizzard still pays money to Games Workshop for a number of copyrights?

And technically, if its not copyrighted, there can be no stealing. Which is why, I guess, Mythic actually copyrighted the Public Quest feature. Smart gits!

And just for habit: Copyright!

Originally posted by Krazco

why should anyone leave a game for another game, when the 2 games is so immensly different?

isnt it really possible to play them both? or is everyone extremly primitive, and can eather like metal or techno music, but not both? makes 0 sence.

im gonna play them both, no reason to leave something else, if you like what you got.

QFT....

and the fact that this simple common sense point seems to somehow go over the heads of most people on these WoW "versus" WAR forums.

Congratulations on your reasoning skills.     That seems a rare thing.  I suppose it's because there is no world map to show anyone where to go "skill up" these elusive and exotic skills.

I personally left WoW a month or so after BC came out.  The game just alienated all the players that worked hard to get their gear in raids and what not.  After getting my last piece of Tier 2, I wait to hear about the expansion only to discover Blizzard is catering to all the whiners that complain about not being able to raid.  So to fix it all?  Gimp everyone by implementing a new system which everyone got used to for a couple of years and make alot of my gear pretty lame.  Epics replaced by greens and so on and so forth.  I didn't feel like doing all that over again.  What's the point?  The next expansion is just going to screw over everything this expansion established.  It just wasn't the same game anymore.  That and the playerbase was bat shit retarded. 

Originally posted by tuppe99

I know, you are all getting tired of these WAR vs WoW posts, but really, even though I am getting tired of WoW myself, I still have not seen anything to suggest that WAR will be a step up from WoW. Except for RvR.

Almost all the other features of WoW seem to be superior to WAR's:

1.) Almost open world, with flying mounts where I can land wherever I want in Outland (and Northrend from level 77)

2.) Amazing PvE that is going to get a huge boost in WOTLK

3.) An economy with an AH

4.) A  huge world comparing to other MMOs

5.) Professions that finally became meaningful

In WAR's favour: PvP and that is about it.

Or are there more WAR features that will blow WoW out of the water that I don't know about? (not in the beta, only going on what I read here).

Please understand that I am not a WoW fanboy, in fact I desperately want to leave it for a superior MMO. Just have not seen one yet.

Do you have to have a low IQ level to post topics in this forum?

Originally posted by tuppe99

I know, you are all getting tired of these WAR vs WoW posts, but really, even though I am getting tired of WoW myself, I still have not seen anything to suggest that WAR will be a step up from WoW. Except for RvR.

Almost all the other features of WoW seem to be superior to WAR's:

1.) Almost open world, with flying mounts where I can land wherever I want in Outland (and Northrend from level 77)

2.) Amazing PvE that is going to get a huge boost in WOTLK

3.) An economy with an AH

4.) A  huge world comparing to other MMOs

5.) Professions that finally became meaningful

In WAR's favour: PvP and that is about it.

Or are there more WAR features that will blow WoW out of the water that I don't know about? (not in the beta, only going on what I read here).

Please understand that I am not a WoW fanboy, in fact I desperately want to leave it for a superior MMO. Just have not seen one yet.

no im not getting tired of war vs wow posts because i enjoy making you look like a sped.

1) who gives a damn how great the world is when there's nothing to do

2) ya the PvE is great if you actually like PvE. so basically you hate it or you are legally retarded with an IQ of 80.

3) hurray for an economy. i've always wanted to go pick flowers and sell them to other people

4) re-read number one if you have the memory span of a fish (good idea for the OP)

5) whoa dude. meaningful professions? by that do you happen to mean a useless, expensive piece of gear that can get replaced by a day of PvE or PvP?

"in war's favor: PvP and that's about it" can be re-read as "in war's favor: the entire game", because virtually the whole selling point for the game is PvP/

Originally posted by tuppe99

I know, you are all getting tired of these WAR vs WoW posts, but really, even though I am getting tired of WoW myself, I still have not seen anything to suggest that WAR will be a step up from WoW. Except for RvR.

Almost all the other features of WoW seem to be superior to WAR's:

1.) Almost open world, with flying mounts where I can land wherever I want in Outland (and Northrend from level 77)

2.) Amazing PvE that is going to get a huge boost in WOTLK

3.) An economy with an AH

4.) A  huge world comparing to other MMOs

5.) Professions that finally became meaningful

In WAR's favour: PvP and that is about it.

Or are there more WAR features that will blow WoW out of the water that I don't know about? (not in the beta, only going on what I read here).

Please understand that I am not a WoW fanboy, in fact I desperately want to leave it for a superior MMO. Just have not seen one yet.

Just one sentence:

Real RVR for every level. With benefits for all levels and all levels participate. Starting level 1 yes.

I guess in today's world if you make the same old god damn thing that's been done, just dumb it down enough for any little fag to play, everyone loves you, and you are a genious. On the other hand if you try to improve something, and actually be innovative, you get bashed by fags who don't want to lose their level 70s and want the next expansion to continue on a reign of the same old bullshit everyone is comfortable with because it's no different than when it came out. GD Blizzard is a dealer and the players are addicts ffs. If you ever actually do play WAR you will realize that the points of both games could literally not be farther frome ach other. i.e. - WoW is for PvE and WAR is for RvR/PvP... Thus comparing them is pretty much the most stupid thing you could do... You might as well say that Final Fantasy is better than Gran Tourismo... They are made for 2 totally different people, therefore different people will like it for different reasons. Of course, you will conintue to compare the two, trying to predict the future with more posts showing up such as "LAWL WAR WILL KEEL WOW LOLOL!!11" and "WAR VS WOW ELL OH ELL". Exactly like when gd AoC was coming out.

Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.Feed the trolls.
 

Also, Open Beta doesn't start till September seventh, so you haven't taken itnerest in the game so why talk about it wtf srsbsns.

Originally posted by Unive

Its funny now that Open Beta is out that people are less on the defensive about Warhammer because they see now how unpolished this game really is and the only thing it has going for it is RvR. I mean HONESTLY? This is from a person that does not play WoW but has played over 10 P2P Mmo's and itleast 20+ Free to play. I consider my self an experienced mmo player. And HONESTLY? The graphics in Warhammer look sub par they look  just like Knight Online's Graphics. I mean you can sit here all day and tell me Zomg its not all about the graphics!! *nerd rage!!!!*  But hell thats what women say about men its not all about the appearance which is bull shit you cant be attracted to someone without SOME SORT OF physical attraction. The Default Warhammer UI is obviously so obvious stolen right from WoW UI it sorta makes me wanna barf.  Why anyone would want to Leave wow for Warhammer for GOOD? Is so far beyond my average intellect it honestly is so far beyond me that I cannot even begin to comprehend why someone would do that. It would be like leveling a character on wow to 70 and then deleteing it and starting over for no reason. Thats an example of what it would be like leaving wow for Warhammer. Your essentially going to another company that has taken itleast 90% of their ideas straight from WoW. These companies are going to continue to create WoW clones because they have seen and are still seeing how succesful the game is. Im not a WoW Fanboi and not one person can deny that blizzard has done an AMAZING job with WoW. Either that or their marketing team deserve to get payed more than the CEO'S of Blizzard.  I will probably be returning to wow after the expansion is released because im not going to pay them for 2 or 3 months gaining gear thats going to be useless anyway.

Firstly...you are obviously "sub par" in the intellect department.  The graphics in beta are no where near the final act.  They're not going to release their completed work in beta...are you kidding me?  It was low end at best to TEST things.  That's what a beta is for.  I thought any "experienced MMO player" would know that.  Even in the first WoW beta, the graphics were no where near what they came to be at launch.  You say they got 90% of their ideas from WoW?  Tome of Knowledge with all it's acheivements....let's see....NOTHING like that in WoWcrap, in fact I hear they're bringing acheivements into WoW in WoTLK all of the sudden...hrmmm...yeah they stole that from WoW.  The UI...give me a break, if I went out pointing fingers at every UI that looks remotely like WoW's I think I'd have a handful of games left.  Blizzard DID an amazing job with WoW in the beginning.  Burning Crusade ruined the game, and WoTLK will do even worse when they release the option to use just 10 people for end game raids.........get real, you go from 40, to 25, to 10?!  WTF Blizzard is just destroying their player base and trying to salvage something.  I see WoW starting to emulate WaR in the near future.  There are a ton of features that aren't in WoW that are in WaR just to name a few:

Tome of Knowledge

Public Quests

Guild Ranks

Standard Bearers

Actual Full Scale RvR

Seige Weapons - Hrmmm those where supposed to come out in WoTLK and they got shelved because Blizz can't work it out correctly

Many many more......

Not to mention the PVE in WaR will get better as time passes, 25 YEARS of lore backing that game up.....there's no doubt in my mind that WaR is far superior to WoW......

Edit:  Just read teh first and last parts of your post....."This is from a person that does not play WoW........I will probably be returning to WoW for the expansion"....someone's not got their story straight...I smell a fanboi

Originally posted by Zenren

I used to be a big fan of PvP, but I've begun to burn out on it. You can spend just so much time being ganked by someone 50 levels higher than you or chasing someone equal level to you, before you realize, most PvPers are cowards who don't want to fight fair.

I'm speaking from personal experience that spans nearly a decade. I began in UO and ended my PvP days on WoW. Ironically I was playing a PvP server on WoW when I quit, but I actually stopped playing because I was being harassed for rolling on a dex item as a arms specced shaman... I was trying to improve my dex for crits and that item seemed perfect for that. Anyways I won the roll against a hunter played by some kid, who  I found out was 14. The kid kept hounding me everytime I logged on. He or one of his friend's or guildmates would harass me whenever I entered a zone and Blizzard refused to do anything... I mean if I leave it's one account, if they ban that guild, there goes 40 accounts. I understand the math.

As for PvPing... it tends to be that same 12-18 year old bunch that makes it meaningless. Back in UO most of the people playing were adults, because they were the only people that could afford to play and parents had no desire to pay a subscription for a game for their kids. Now it's different.

One thing about tweener PvPers is that they are relentless and tend to work on the principal that a fair fight is a fight you should run from. If your on a battlefield, attack the person being ganged up on. if you're out and about, only attack them if they're five levels lower than you or you know you can beat them, because they just got done fighting a mob... and while you're at it, spam the channel with Chuck Norris jokes... I mean if we're going to make someone a mytholigical figure, why not make it someone who can barely act. While you're at it, why not start touting Steven Segal as the next messiah? It makes about as much sense.

Anyways, the reasons I left WoW are the same reasons I'm not playing Warhammer. The people they let in the beta all tend to be the demograph that makes WoW miserable. I mean they're trying to steal WoW's customer base, so in the end we're going to get the same old atmosphere there. I'm done with that.

before posting such BS, please get better information.

you did not even read this thread.

an example:

player A of Order is rank 3 (rank = level) and goes ladida into a RvR area.

player B on Chaos is rank 11 and does into same RvR area

-> player A gets bumped up to rank 8 (ingame system for RvR)

-> player B stays 11

player B would still pawn player A in a 1 on 1, but there are almost never 1 on 1s in RvR and player A at rank 8 can accomplish a lot for the team.

I have done it.

-> after a while player B levels up (you get a lot of XP in RvR)

-> player B hits rank 12, and gets turned into a chicken.

-> player B has to leave and go to next higher RvR zone

-> player B really really likes RvR and does not what I did and most do and will not level up in PvE, he goes directly to RvR tier 2

-> player B gets bumped up to rank 18 where he encounters a lot of rank 19 and 20 players, but also a huge amount of rank 18 people

happy end

if you don't like PvP any more, fine. if you dont want to play WAR, fine. but pls do your homework and do not ramble about being pawned by players 50 levels above you.

that makes you sound like you have no idea at all of what you are talking about.

which you don't

Originally posted by tuppe99

I know, you are all getting tired of these WAR vs WoW posts, but really, even though I am getting tired of WoW myself, I still have not seen anything to suggest that WAR will be a step up from WoW. Except for RvR.

Almost all the other features of WoW seem to be superior to WAR's:

1.) Almost open world, with flying mounts where I can land wherever I want in Outland (and Northrend from level 77)

2.) Amazing PvE that is going to get a huge boost in WOTLK

3.) An economy with an AH

4.) A  huge world comparing to other MMOs

5.) Professions that finally became meaningful

In WAR's favour: PvP and that is about it.

Or are there more WAR features that will blow WoW out of the water that I don't know about? (not in the beta, only going on what I read here).

Please understand that I am not a WoW fanboy, in fact I desperately want to leave it for a superior MMO. Just have not seen one yet.

The only reason anyone should need to leave WoW is because they're tired of playing and want to move on.

The only reason anyone should need to play WAR is because it looks or is entertaining to them.

And that's it.

As for your looking for a superior MMO... No one can tell you that it is or that it isn't. If they try to insist either way as fact, they're delusional. It's merely their opinion and you may not agree with them.

Best to just play it yourself.. perhaps wait for a trial.. and see if it's something you would enjoy playing.

Originally posted by Zoulz

Originally posted by gillvane1

Originally posted by tuppe99

I know, you are all getting tired of these WAR vs WoW posts, but really, even though I am getting tired of WoW myself, I still have not seen anything to suggest that WAR will be a step up from WoW. Except for RvR.

Almost all the other features of WoW seem to be superior to WAR's:

1.) Almost open world, with flying mounts where I can land wherever I want in Outland (and Northrend from level 77)

2.) Amazing PvE that is going to get a huge boost in WOTLK

3.) An economy with an AH

4.) A  huge world comparing to other MMOs

5.) Professions that finally became meaningful

In WAR's favour: PvP and that is about it.

Or are there more WAR features that will blow WoW out of the water that I don't know about? (not in the beta, only going on what I read here).

Please understand that I am not a WoW fanboy, in fact I desperately want to leave it for a superior MMO. Just have not seen one yet.

 

WoW is a solo game. If you like solo games, stay in WoW.

 

Wow is the most group oriented MMO I have ever played. Tell me any other MMO that focuses more on grouping than wow. Just because you can choose to level to 70 solo doesn't mean there is no support for grouping. Wow just allows you to solo instead if you want to.

....Weird never heard of  WoW leveling groups , evrybody just quest/grind solo and team up for instances.

I'll tell about MMos that are really group based. FFXI . You can't xp above lev 10 solo , only in group. This goes up to 75. You can barely farm money solo in that game. Or what about EQ1 ? same thing all the leveling was group based , you could'nt solo anything worth decent xp.

WOW is easy mode. It's the most solo friendly MMO on the market. And probably the main reason it's so popular. Goldfarmers love this game since farming or botting is so easy. 

Now with the wellfare epics attainable in BG when they get pass down from previous arena season , you don't even need to group to get "epic" gear. You just solo grind . GTFO. 

So what you all saying really is WoW is a game that has alot of people that like to play with themselves

Originally posted by Unive

Its funny now that Open Beta is out that people are less on the defensive about Warhammer because they see now how unpolished this game really is and the only thing it has going for it is RvR. I mean HONESTLY? This is from a person that does not play WoW but has played over 10 P2P Mmo's and itleast 20+ Free to play. I consider my self an experienced mmo player. And HONESTLY? The graphics in Warhammer look sub par they look  just like Knight Online's Graphics. I mean you can sit here all day and tell me Zomg its not all about the graphics!! *nerd rage!!!!*  But hell thats what women say about men its not all about the appearance which is bull shit you cant be attracted to someone without SOME SORT OF physical attraction. The Default Warhammer UI is obviously so obvious stolen right from WoW UI it sorta makes me wanna barf.  Why anyone would want to Leave wow for Warhammer for GOOD? Is so far beyond my average intellect it honestly is so far beyond me that I cannot even begin to comprehend why someone would do that. It would be like leveling a character on wow to 70 and then deleteing it and starting over for no reason. Thats an example of what it would be like leaving wow for Warhammer. Your essentially going to another company that has taken itleast 90% of their ideas straight from WoW. These companies are going to continue to create WoW clones because they have seen and are still seeing how succesful the game is. Im not a WoW Fanboi and not one person can deny that blizzard has done an AMAZING job with WoW. Either that or their marketing team deserve to get payed more than the CEO'S of Blizzard.  I will probably be returning to wow after the expansion is released because im not going to pay them for 2 or 3 months gaining gear thats going to be useless anyway.

It's funny how you say you never played WoW. FOR THE PERSON BELOW ME I'VE PLAYED WoW FOR 2 WEEKS AND IT WAS BORING.

You say you have never played WoW ?
Then why are you defending WoW ?
How would you know that leaving WARHAMMER for WoW would be like deleting a  level 70 WoW char. Since you never played WoW you don't know the value of a 70 char in WoW. Then why compare it to leaving WARHAMMER for WoW ?
How would you know they did an amazing job without playing it?
Now that part is confusing. =/

OMFG is this thread STILL not dead? geesh just let it die ffs

IF you like wow so much then stay there ffs why make all this fuss about it? Or are you just bored of wow and rather whine to other people.

Originally posted by Emotions

OMFG is this thread STILL not dead? geesh just let it die ffs

IF you like wow so much then stay there ffs why make all this fuss about it? Or are you just bored of wow and rather whine to other people.

Look at my signature, and read my post.
And then tell me again to get back to WoW. =)

Originally posted by Pyro240

 

Look at my signature, and read my post.
And then tell me again to get back to WoW. =)

Has My Babies Plx kkthxbai!

Open world PvP that is actually part of the game and not turn into a zone like what happened with WOW?

Originally posted by Pyro240

Originally posted by Emotions

OMFG is this thread STILL not dead? geesh just let it die ffs

IF you like wow so much then stay there ffs why make all this fuss about it? Or are you just bored of wow and rather whine to other people.

 

Look at my signature, and read my post.
And then tell me again to get back to WoW. =)

Get back to WoW *runs for the hills*

:)

Originally posted by Unive

Its funny now that Open Beta is out that people are less on the defensive about Warhammer because they see now how unpolished this game really is and the only thing it has going for it is RvR. I mean HONESTLY? This is from a person that does not play WoW but has played over 10 P2P Mmo's and itleast 20+ Free to play. I consider my self an experienced mmo player. And HONESTLY? The graphics in Warhammer look sub par they look  just like Knight Online's Graphics. I mean you can sit here all day and tell me Zomg its not all about the graphics!! *nerd rage!!!!*  But hell thats what women say about men its not all about the appearance which is bull shit you cant be attracted to someone without SOME SORT OF physical attraction. The Default Warhammer UI is obviously so obvious stolen right from WoW UI it sorta makes me wanna barf.  Why anyone would want to Leave wow for Warhammer for GOOD? Is so far beyond my average intellect it honestly is so far beyond me that I cannot even begin to comprehend why someone would do that. It would be like leveling a character on wow to 70 and then deleteing it and starting over for no reason. Thats an example of what it would be like leaving wow for Warhammer. Your essentially going to another company that has taken itleast 90% of their ideas straight from WoW. These companies are going to continue to create WoW clones because they have seen and are still seeing how succesful the game is. Im not a WoW Fanboi and not one person can deny that blizzard has done an AMAZING job with WoW. Either that or their marketing team deserve to get payed more than the CEO'S of Blizzard.  I will probably be returning to wow after the expansion is released because im not going to pay them for 2 or 3 months gaining gear thats going to be useless anyway.

Someone is on drugs he is comparing knight to WAR graphics lol first off wow is a grind there is 100 percent no point to playing wow all u do is GRIND to max level to grind to get better gear to get better gear and knight online graphics are like a 10 year olds drawing and The order of graphics is KNIGHT>WoW>WAR SO STFU

Originally posted by Onecrazyguy

Originally posted by SgtFrog

Originally posted by tuppe99

I agree that it will be a success. But it will not keep it's subs. There will be a dedicated group of PvPers that will keep WAR going for many years and expansions will also improve it, but to what extend we will have to wait and see.

I believe subs will follow the same trend as AoC but with a much larger player base.

 

AOC had allot of problems. thats why the sub number went down so quick,

WAR will do well... probably take place in the number 2 spot with a stable 500k-800k+ subs .

 

It won't be #2 with only 800k subs... Guild Wars has that beat.

 Guild Wars doesn't have subs.

---

Originally posted by tuppe99
1.) Almost open world, with flying mounts where I can land wherever I want in Outland (and Northrend from level 77)

---

WoW used to be a primarily open world, but no longer. Almost everything that you actually do, and where you interact with other players, is inside one instance or another. That is all there is to say about that, I am 100% that you and all the other players are floating above Shattrath waiting for a BG to pop.

Look closely at your post and you can spot an actual regression- generally when something is introduced in an expansion pack it is applicable to all expansion packs past that. I confidently predict that expansion packs are going to be little bubble worlds where anything one brings does not jive with the others.

WAR is not starting out with flying mounts yet. I would hardly count them out, and predict that not only will you be able to use them past the expansion areas- they will be retroactive.

---

2.) Amazing PvE that is going to get a huge boost in WOTLK

---

The story variable, one of the most important aspects of the PvE system, has been pretty much nuked beyond recognition in WoW. I have not heard of either a more dynamic looting or questing system that compares to WARs, nor of a vastly upgraded party/raid system. I don't even think WoW can handle it.

---

3.) An economy with an AH

---

---

4.) A  huge world comparing to other MMOs

---

---

5.) Professions that finally became meaningful

---

They will not allow WoW to have a meaningful crafting system. It competes with their gear treadmill and demands a lot of consistent upkeep and creativity which they just can't seem to do. Ultimately, as with jewelcrafting, they will turn the new craft into a vendor system.

---

In WAR's favour: PvP and that is about it.

---

The PvP that was present in the initial WoW launch is what players still yearn for and seek in other MMORPGs. If you weren't there, you wouldn't understand. WAR has that.

---

Or are there more WAR features that will blow WoW out of the water that I don't know about? (not in the beta, only going on what I read here).
Please understand that I am not a WoW fanboy, in fact I desperately want to leave it for a superior MMO. Just have not seen one yet.

---

WARs party and raid system, LFG, and related are all vastly superior to WoWs. You can look up whatever parties there are in any area, and I believe that all or most parties are automatically set to "open". This means that it eliminates the red tape of you having to figure out who the leader is, who can invite, messaging them, waiting for replies, et al. You just get in and go.

There is actually incentive, real incentive, to group with others due to the nature of many quests and most especially Public Quests. You are rewarded based on how well you do, and it counts helping your allies. Early on you get several spells and abilities that relate to groups.

Did I mention spells and abilities? There are a ton of them, and they are each unique. This means that there are several ways to approach and play the game, a given quest, and so on. There are also at least three sets of 'action bars', if you will, that add to this and depend on different things that you are actually doing while playing the game.

There is the heroic set that may include passive or active abilities, morale abilities relating to your battles, and the huge set of spells on the traditional bar.

Their idea of a talent tree is way better. It... just is. Its two fold, where you climb up various ladders of sorts. Anytime you invest a point in the closest thing resembling a "talent tree" it improves a class of spells automatically.

The BGs, even their BGs are way better IMO, they have events relating to what players do.

Thats all I can type up for now, lots more later.