General Discussion

They have always been ready to go toe to toe with the west.

A few morons thought that when they won the Cold War it meant that the Russians had lost.

And, baff, if you want to say that Georgia was on its way (or had become) a client state of the US, I think that would go over a lot better than trying to call it a colony.

But, if you want to keep saying that, it's up to you. We'll all just continue to think you're nuts for saying it.

If you want to call it a client state instead of a colony. Go right ahead. Whatever floats your boat.

Changing the name doesn't change the relationship.

Similarly we can call invasion liberation. War, intervention. Murder, Euthanasia.

Killing our pets would upset the kids so instead we just put them down.

 So yeah, if you think colonisation is evil, by all means call it something else when you do it. There's nothing wrong with a little propaganda amongst friends or a harmless white lie for children.

*Tuor peers at baff*...

Uh, the Soviets *did* lose. The Soviet Union collapsed in over 15 years ago. I'm sorry if you didn't get the memo. Generally, when your government collapses, the military is in complete disarry, the economy is in shambles, and most of the citizenry are impoverished, you don't say "we won".

Now, clearly, that state of affairs has changed. Russia appears to be moving to make another go of it -- a new game. Maybe they've learned from their last defeat and maybe Putin has developed a more effective means of creating a hegemony with themselves on top. Time will tell. But yes, they *did* lose.

Originally posted by Tuor7

It's one thing to mess with Georgia, but if he starts going after the Ukraine or trying to re-ignite the Cold War, it will go a lot worse for the Soviets/Russians than for the West, even more than last time, IMO.

IMO, the Cold War has already begun. Problem with Russia is they are having a bit of a population problem at the moment and isn't the grand army it once use to portray itself as. It currently holds the title as the 4th largest army in the world, but it may lose that when they slim down in personnel over the next few years. Birthrates are also horrible for Russia right now so we are not going to be seeing any huge influx of fresh youth in the near future, unless they conscript everyone (which Putin is trying to get away from).

Originally posted by Tuor7

Colonized? WTF are you talking about? Are you saying the US was going to make an colony out of Georgia? Please.

Yeah, Georgia stupidly listened to Western promises and thought they would be protected. They decided to clean house and fix the situation in South Ossetia (which is internationally recognized as being part of their country). Unfortunately, Georgia forgot the first rule of being a nation: don't claim what you can't hold.

Also unfortunately for Georgia is that Russia is too fearful to allow Georgia to join NATO. Maybe those fears are justified, but it seems to me that this is more of the old Russian expansionism and a desire to control resources (the pipeline from Turkey to Europe).

But none of this has anything to do with the USA colonizing Georgia. That's absurd.

This has everything to do with the U.S. colonising Georgia.
 

America smelt pussy and they thought they'd push their luck.

The EU has been doing the same in Yugoslavia. It's not just U.S. expansionism that is a threat to Russia.

The pipeline is definitly a factor, the Brits had control of Georgia after WW1 for the same reason.

Baron, I'm not ready to call this a new Cold War yet. IMO, this is Russia exploiting the fact that the US is over-extended right now. It could lead to a new Cold War, or it is just opportunity knocking for Putin and he's making use of it at our expense.

The Cold War lasted a long time, and even if Russia wants to fill itself with the idea that they are somehow on the same level as we are (that is, a creditable opponent), that doesn't mean that they are or that we'll view them that way. In fact, China scares me a lot more than Russia. Russia makes me think of a guy having a mid-life crisis who buys an expensive red sports car and goes cruising for chicks, trying to pretend he's still young and virile. The world, I think, has moved on from the days of Soviet Power, and despite Putin's best efforts to roll back the clock, I don't think those days will come around again.

Originally posted by Tuor7

*Tuor peers at baff*...

Uh, the Soviets *did* lose. The Soviet Union collapsed in over 15 years ago. I'm sorry if you didn't get the memo. Generally, when your government collapses, the military is in complete disarry, the economy is in shambles, and most of the citizenry are impoverished, you don't say "we won".

No mate.

We all won.

We all survived it.

The goal of the Soviets in the Cold War was to defend themselves. They succeeded.

Now the Cold War is over, those people who feel the Russians lost (they got rid of all their uneconomic dependants, they are much better off for not proping up the Soviet Union any more), are all trying to push home that advantage.

Are trying to expand into the Soviet sphere of influence and usurp Russia's position in it. Lands that 10's of millions of Russians died to protect in living memory.

They didn't lose the Cold War, but if they don't take a stand right now, they will do.

Being poor isn't half a bad as being conquered. Most societies prefer it.

It certainly appears that Russia is showing its teeth in an effort to show the world that they are still a nation to be reckoned with.

Whether that will get Russia the attention it wants in the 21st century, I'm not so sure.

The latest news that I am reading is that Russia is not completely pulling its troops out of Georgia as it has said it would. Instead they are setting up military check points in Georgia territory and recognizing the two break-away areas as officially seperate from Georgia.