I don't mean to upset anyone. I know that there are a lot of dreamers out there who would prefer that everyone compare these games based on what WAR may become. Unfortunately the inconvenient truth is that these games can, should and will be compared in their current state. WAR, fresh out of beta, will be compared to WoW's 3 years and 2 expansions full of content.

Save face and stop saying that you can't compare these two games in their current state. You're only making yourself look foolish.

WoW had world PvP. WoW's world PvP was plagued by problems such as server stability and realm population imbalance. Blizzard changed the focus of WoW's PvP from World PvP to instanced PvP where both stability and balance issues could be addressed.

Many people credit WoW BGs with the demise of WoW's world PvP.

WAR will have population imbalances. WAR will likely have server stability issues and lag when large numbers of players gather (this is a hardware limitation, not a design limitation). WAR will have BGs.

Any bets that non-instanced RvR will win out over instanced BGs given players have access to both? Keep in mind that Blizzard did not ban world PvP in WoW. Blizzard only gave its players the option of stable, balanced PvP in BGs.

What do you do if your team is the underdog? Participate in uneven, laggy RvR where you are dominated or hang out in balanced, relatively lag-free BGs?

If RvR is so great then why isn't DAoC doing better?

I hope that WAR does well because competition is good for we players... but let's not lie to ourselves about its features.

Even though you post this people will always compare WoW with any new game that comes out because the majority of people who play WoW are Teens and don't usally know anything about games. Also WoW is the common game people play right now so when people compare the two, they're just giving reasons as to why/why not to dump your subscription to WoW and go to WAR.

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Originally posted by OldManFunk
Keep in mind that Blizzard did not ban world PvP in WoW. Blizzard only gave its players the option of stable, balanced PvP in BGs.

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No, they didn't "ban" world PvP, but they did kill it by giving enormous amounts of bonus honor and virtually eliminating the consequences of death in the BGs. Why would anyone PvP in the open world when they have to wait several minutes to respawn, and even then come back at around half health?

Blizzard could easily fix world PvP by adding all the things that give BGs such a huge advantage.

Yes you can.

WoW 1.0 doesn't exist. It's WoW 3.4 now

WAR 1.0 is what exists now.

Why compare new WAR to old WoW especially when old WoW doesn't exist anymore?

Originally posted by OldManFunk

If RvR is so great then why isn't DAoC doing better?

Great question.  It failed for many reasons but the main, imo, was becasue Mythic started to walk the WoW path, instead of the WAR path.

DAoC was fully RvR oriented at first, like WAR.  But then they started adding content.  And the content wasnt RvR one... was PvE one.

Suddenly, people had to raid for hours and hours to get MLs, Artis, better gear.   Then they added more PvE content: crafting.  So people templated themselves (making gear more and more important).  All this is the WoW path: PvE path.

They learned from their mistakes, it seems.  I hope the future content they add keep improving RvR more than PvE.

I hope they dont follow the WoW's path (a terrible game, raidfest, grindfest, gear oriented and without real PvP).

You can't compare WoW to War because they are different types of games. WoW is mainly PvE with PvP thrown in, where War is mainly based on RvR which is quite a bit different from PvP.  Both games are great for the audiance they were made for, but they definetly play different from one another.  One you get comradeship from raid dungeons the other from defending the realm, why WoW fans want to define War to it's standards is beyond me.  I'm beginning to think the WoW crowd is afraid War will steal some of their fans away, rest easy boys, I doubt the vast majority of carebears will give up their safe PvE for some exciting RvR realm defense....or will they?

As for realm imbalance as an ex DAoC player it probably won't make that much difference although if it's grossly imbalanced it can.  Usually the smaller side toughen up quicker under pressure, while the bloated side is sloppy which evens the playing field some.

This is the most redundant post ever. BGs are not stable, on my realm they crashed almost daily (especially during AV weekends). Why would mythic be lazy to fix RvR when its their main anti-WoW cannon? Take your software engineering degree, oh wait....

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Originally posted by OldManFunk

 
If RvR is so great then why isn't DAoC doing better?
 
I hope that WAR does well because competition is good for we players... but let's not lie to ourselves about its features.

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DAoC was doing great until they messed up with an explansion, also mythic is/was a much smaller company than blizzard.
 

Newsflash Wow is nearly a 4 year old game which was first developed over 7 years ago. 

So yes I am expecting more from warhamemr why?  BECAUSE thats right its a new next gen mmo, so therfore it should be better and more advanced, sadly its rvr and sieging isnt even upto Daoc standards let alone wows standards.  So dont come spewing crap about wow being older and more experience, mythic have over 6+ years in the mmo market with Daoc, and the backing of a juggernaught in EA along with newer technology.

This topic is new and interesting.

Of course people will compare WAR to the current WoW since that is what they are playing right now. If WAR wants to take a large chunck of WoWs subs then it has to be better than WoW as it is now, not how it was at the beggining. Lets put it this way, if GM wants to compete with Ford, they should be aiming at offering better features in their car than fords current model. What you are saying is that they should be competing with the model T instead.

thers no freakin way that a NEW game can instanty beat wow.

wow took 3 years to hit the 10 mil mark

and if you ask some wow players ,what other games they play awnser is: "no other games",sam thing if you aks for WAR : "war? is that a mmorgp?"

so the hardcore gamers have to walk the new path, and spread the word.

if a game is really good,the millions of players will come after years.

First year of WoW was the best one tough ( to me ) .

The biggest thing I notice, while playing WoW, is that most of the people I run into have not played anything other than WoW.  Will they try and compare it to that? Sure they will, it's all they know.  Is there really a comparison to a polished game over one that just got cleared to go to print? Not really, WAR will have some growing pains just like every other game before it.  WoW didn't invent MMO'ing, it just made it popular.  It's a good game, but it's never been a great pvp game.  DAoC was a fair game, but it had great PvP, so my expectations of Mythic are high and I think they'll deliver.  WAR won't crush WoW, but it'll offer those of us who don't like to kill the same boss every week in and week out not getting the drop that we've tried so many times for in mechanical monotony something else to do with ourselves. 

The mistake most of the guys here make is that they compare WAR to Wow.You can only loose if doing this. Wow doesn't even exist anymore.

Whatever angle you look upon, the lesser you compare the better.

Most think that if they can lure in Wow players, the game will be a success.

Nothing could be further from the truth... Why ?

Everyone and his dog will try out WotLK. Wow is the reference - whether you hate it or are bored with it or are a member of the most fanatic anti Wow site MMORPG.COM is....

So there is this big 10.9 ton foot that will crush the PC gaming world within 2 months. And trying to convince people NOT to play the game which has 60% of the market (except on MMORPG.COM) is a waste of time.

I play every MMORPG I can lay my hands on... and guess what... I would be a fool to skip on the promised WotLK content and the newest techniques Blizzard promises like "phasing", THEIR version of open world PvP and  advancements.

Will I play WAR? Of course I will, but like everyone else when WotLK will come out, I know where most folk will be. Trying to compare the two with head to head pushing/competition is just so foolish.

Originally posted by CasaFranky

thers no freakin way that a NEW game can instanty beat wow.

wow took 3 years to hit the 10 mil mark

and if you ask some wow players ,what other games they play awnser is: "no other games",sam thing if you aks for WAR : "war? is that a mmorgp?"

 

so the hardcore gamers have to walk the new path, and spread the word.

if a game is really good,the millions of players will come after years.

When WoW came out EQ and UO had been out for about 6 years or so with a few thousands expansions (lol EQ) and it was better than either of them. So why is it too hard to ask a new game to be better than WoW after 3.5 years, they have released 1 expansion and that's it.

As a Blizzard dev said, there will be a game that will take a lot of subs from WoW one day, however that game will have to be much better than WoW to get people to switch.

I agree with him, you can't expect people to leave WoW for an inferior product, not in big numbers anyway. Competition need to aim high (think vanguard but without a crackhead developing it) with plenty of new/developed ideas and excecution.

Originally posted by Raztor

Originally posted by CasaFranky

thers no freakin way that a NEW game can instanty beat wow.

wow took 3 years to hit the 10 mil mark

and if you ask some wow players ,what other games they play awnser is: "no other games",sam thing if you aks for WAR : "war? is that a mmorgp?"

 

so the hardcore gamers have to walk the new path, and spread the word.

if a game is really good,the millions of players will come after years.

 

When WoW came out EQ and UO had been out for about 6 years or so with a few thousands expansions (lol EQ) and it was better than either of them.

...

No WoW was not better and never will be better than UO or EQ. WoW just have great potential but instead to develope it to great MMO Blizzard runed it to commercial multiplayer game!

WoW even was not been compleated on his release, just have been polished enought with half implemented features.

Originally posted by iZakaroN

Originally posted by Raztor

Originally posted by CasaFranky

thers no freakin way that a NEW game can instanty beat wow.

wow took 3 years to hit the 10 mil mark

and if you ask some wow players ,what other games they play awnser is: "no other games",sam thing if you aks for WAR : "war? is that a mmorgp?"

 

so the hardcore gamers have to walk the new path, and spread the word.

if a game is really good,the millions of players will come after years.

 

When WoW came out EQ and UO had been out for about 6 years or so with a few thousands expansions (lol EQ) and it was better than either of them.

...

 

No WoW was not better and never will be better than UO or EQ. WoW just have great potential but instead to develope it to great MMO Blizzard runed it to commercial multiplayer game!

WoW even was not been compleated on his release, just have been polished enought with half implemented features.

My guild and many many others would disagree with you as we switched from EQ to WoW when it came out and haven't looked since (stil log on EQ now and again), but I guess whatever I say is not going to change your mind so I'll leave it here.

They took all the best ideas from EQ and simply made them fun (as a developer said, if it's not fun then it's out). UO was a totally different game ofc with it's sandbox gameplay, but fact is that for the majority of the players WoW was the better game.

I dont think anyone is thinking WAR will beat WOW on day one.  All MMOs will be judged on the longtivity of gameplay and the ongoing development of the game.  If WAR manages to keep improving (instead of destroying more like AOC) then it will grow stronger and stronger.  

I look at WAR as counterweight to allowing WOW devs to screw ppl over like they have been doing in the past year or so.  They have not been balancing the game correctly and are allowing some classes to dominate the game.  WAR and the open ended RVR does not need that kinda stupid micro managment in terms of balance and it will attract ppl that Blizzard screws over. 

WAR will be judged on the first few months.  Many of the rulesets of the game are intresting but we are yet to see if they can survife the exploiders and cheaters.  If the core systems are strong enough to beat those of, then WAR can build on it - instead of fighting fixing up unfinished content and buggs (like AOC)

Originally posted by Raztor

Originally posted by iZakaroN

Originally posted by Raztor

Originally posted by CasaFranky

thers no freakin way that a NEW game can instanty beat wow.

wow took 3 years to hit the 10 mil mark

and if you ask some wow players ,what other games they play awnser is: "no other games",sam thing if you aks for WAR : "war? is that a mmorgp?"

 

so the hardcore gamers have to walk the new path, and spread the word.

if a game is really good,the millions of players will come after years.

 

When WoW came out EQ and UO had been out for about 6 years or so with a few thousands expansions (lol EQ) and it was better than either of them.

...

 

No WoW was not better and never will be better than UO or EQ. WoW just have great potential but instead to develope it to great MMO Blizzard runed it to commercial multiplayer game!

WoW even was not been compleated on his release, just have been polished enought with half implemented features.

My guild and many many others would disagree with you as we switched from EQ to WoW when it came out and haven't looked since (stil log on EQ now and again), but I guess whatever I say is not going to change your mind so I'll leave it here.

 

They took all the best ideas from EQ and simply made them fun (as a developer said, if it's not fun then it's out). UO was a totally different game ofc with it's sandbox gameplay, but fact is that for the majority of the players WoW was the better game.

As I said they make it commercial. They cut sharp edges, high altitude and removed surprise and adrenaline at all. Its just like "greatest summer hits". I preffer something more extreme, underground and rigidly, that can fill up you with adrenaline.. Thats where MMO started and what was supposed to be.