General Discussion

heres my theory if they fix every complaint in the preview weekend( not including that the 4 classes they cut arnt there) then WAR will be the 2nd most succesful MMO ever if they dont i exspect it to be LORTO subs or alittle better unless it magically picks up.

Actually Mythic did what any responsible developer does when they realize what they "planned to do" exceeds what they have the time available to do. They make sacrifices. It happens all the time in game development - MMOs and otherwise. Features are cut - sometimes significant ones - in favor of ensuring better quality of the product overall.

It amazes me how people just immediately jump on the "Ahh.. they screwed up" bandwagon without understanding the implications of what they're trashing.

I didn't say what they did was wrong, I said that they've done exactly what a large number of people expected: they overstretched themselves, cut out content and are releasing a different "final product" to the one that they promised consumers. The fact that they acted in a "correct" business-sense, given the situation, in no way exonerates them for their overall foul-up.

Similarly, I'm not just jumping on the band-wagon, nor do I lack understanding on the matter. They knew they'd have to pull city content (at least) long before they made the final decision and let people know (this isn't guess-work). They bled the marketing value out of things for as long as they could, just on principle. It's that (bad) principle that annoys the heck out of me. Obviously, from a business perspective, they acted in the best interests of higher final product sales but that doesn't mean I have to like it or that it's not a generic, underhanded tactic that's used on a consistent basis by every other game developer (and/or their publisher) out there. :P

Also, the term "Going Gold" is a common term in software development that means only "The master copy of the application has been cut and  sent off to be mass-duplicated for distribution". Nothing more.

I'm aware of this. :) The term originally stemmed from the fact that the "master copy" disc was (in my experience, also) gold in colour. :D

My quips on gold/bronze were simply textual tools for criticism. :P

Are you paying for any of the debugging, testing and such that will take place in the next 3+ weeks prior to release? No, you're not.

Actually, we are. That's what the initial "buy the box and installer" cost covers; or should cover. However, none of this excuses the fact that we'll not be getting what we were promised, no matter how you, or anyone else, tries to sugar-coat it. Even if the "final" release is bug-free, if there are entire cities and classes missing, then it's not "finished" - based on their initial promises - and our monthly fee is being paid while they re-build, re-test and re-impliment that missing content. That, in short, is "paid beta testing," as they should have been there at release but they're not; we're paying fees while they test content that should've been there, already.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the need that Mythic feels to cut these things out, due to the current release schedule (which is, in my opinion, far too early and is the purely the product of the "race to the finish, even if it's not ready" mentality that's become so wide-spread and 'accepted'), but, to me, that still in no way makes it acceptable. The 'correct' approach would be to push the release back. They won't do it because they want money and because consumers cry like whiny babies when they can't have their toy NOW. I understand the situation but it doesn't mean I have to like it or condone it.

So the whole 'pay to play beta' is premature and moot at this point.

[[..massive snip..]]

That's why I was using future tense. :)

I'm also fully aware of the development lifecycle of a software product - even one of an MMO's magnitude - so there's no need to lecture. ;)

During which time they managed to utterly ruin DAoC (in my opinion). Not confidence-inspiring, at all.

Exactly.. what you feel they did with the game - post launch - is opinion. But that's gameplay. The release of the game - whether it's ready or not - is what we are discussing here. In that light, if you do some Googling, you'll find that DAoC was known for having a very stable release. Mythic did things right for that title as far as its retail release was concerned.

Which is why I tagged it as being opinion. :) What I was discussing, though, was gameplay - when it comes to "pay to beta," at least. You don't pay monthly for a game to release, unless you're involved in the Korean F2P market. :P

With any game, I truly hope that release goes without a hitch. Without exception. There's nothing more frustrating, when you buy a new game (especially at release), than being unable to actually play it. First-run patching is irritating enough; not being able to actually play (or even create a character) makes me want to dent my desk with my face. That tends to get a touch painful. :P

Hence, on the release front, I hope Mythic is as up to speed as they were back then. However, I fully expect the numbers that will be hitting their servers on the 7th, never mind the 18th, will seriously exceed the largest numbers that (I ever saw to have) graced their DAoC servers (which I played on from the game first releasing - I have no need to Google it).

Of course, I could be completely wrong and they could drop the ball horribly at the last minute. I simply have no reason to expect that to happen.

I really hope they don't.

Also, FunCom's been at the MMORPG thing for a while, too: look how badly they screwed the pooch. :P

Because they learned nothing from the train-wreck they had with AO's launch and even made some of the same mistakes with AoC. Mythic != FC. 

 I was simply using FailCom as an example of how badly a company can screw things up. There was no hidden, factual comparison. :) Mythic are, indeed, not FC; similarly, I hope Mythic don't screw things up as badly as FC did. :P

That and Mythic have EA (effectively) tugging at their reins: which does nothing but inspire an even bigger lack of confidence in me.

Actually, EA has been, by large account, hands-off with Mythic. [[..snip..]] People's major concern was that EA was going to get on their case, have their fingers in every step of WAR's development, and ruin the game. Mythic said that one of their conditions of the deal was that EA *didn't* do that. 

I said that EA's involvement inspired a lack of confidence and that statement stands. They might not be able to poke their fingers directly into the WAR pie (which actually sounds kinda tasty *distracted*), but they will still have influence, to some small extent, and that will always make me twitch. Three times three characters sums up my (lack of) belief in EA: UO2, UXO, TSO. They have a past (for me) of screwing with things that my friends, family or I enjoy, in adverse ways. I really do hope that Mythic can continue to stave off their involvement in anything development-wise, content or not.

I'm playing The Witcher, myself.

Hrm. That's the 1P RPG by RED, or something, isn't it? Got me curious, again... *attacks Google* ;)

Been playing beta since the beginning and nothing serious changed through the years but the approach
to the oldsql blizzard talenttrees. Same 'ol story with a crappy overall game feeling with lack of any kind
of action aspect. PvP in WAR has never been anything but zerging.

Don't let yourself getting mindf*cked by upcoming mmo's. Be patient, await the furious uproar and enjoy
having saved a 50 bucks.

Originally posted by Ahnilator

Gold? Really?

Where are the cities they removed as well as the classes? They could have replaced them at the very least.

Bah. What if they have never anounced them? Even now there are plenty enoght nimber of classes.

You know its a lot easier to just put the trolls on ignore. 

There were only two they needed to fix from my perspective.  Pathing and the little lag I got in PvP.