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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: Correspondent - Lore Behind the Armies

18 posts found
  Stradden

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/08/05
Posts: 6729

 
OP  8/25/08 9:18:07 AM#1

MMORPG.com warhammer Online Correspondent Tom Giblin pens this look at the lore behind the armies that will appear in Mythic Entertainment's Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning.

Warhammer has a rich history that stretches back 25 years beginning with Warhammer Fantasy Battle, a tabletop miniature wargame. Since its creation, Warhammer Fantasy Battle has spawned novels, board games, video games, and a sister universe, the science fiction based Warhammer 40K. All of these things gave Mythic a truly vast library of information to pull from to create Warhammer Online as it is now, and add to it in the future. With the launch of WAR just over a month away it’s a great time to examine the lore of Warhammer. In the first of a series of articles, I’ll take a look at the lore behind the Warhammer setting as it relates to WAR, beginning with the Armies of WAR.

The Armies of Order

Empire

Sigmar Heldenhammer unified primitive human tribes into the Empire thousands of years ago. He served as its first emperor for fifty years before venturing off to pass over the World’s Edge Mountains. Sigmar was never seen again. It was not long before Sigmar was acclaimed as a god, thanks in no small part to visible answers to the prayers of his followers. While the Empire is polytheistic, Sigmar has become its most important god.

Read it all here.

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

  Bluezeer

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 30

8/25/08 10:26:29 AM#2

Nice reading but  ..  should you not have mention that , the dwarves kill the high elf's king ?

Bluezeer Xfire Miniprofile
  TookyG

Warhammer Online Correspondent

Joined: 4/19/04
Posts: 1192

"...you mean three philippino women."

8/25/08 10:38:56 AM#3
Originally posted by Bluezeer

Nice reading but  ..  should you not have mention that , the dwarves kill the high elf's king ?

 

That happened well before WAR takes place.

Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.

  Fuerchtegott

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 79

8/25/08 11:10:09 AM#4

Nice read, however, redundant. Why? Because it essentially collides with the game mechanics of WAR.

This is probably my harshest point of criticism about WAR. I don't really care whether the graphics are as good, or as bad as any other game, or game is imbalanced etc. As long as the game itself is fun to play, these are only minor issues.

A game, especially based on an IP, should harmonize with this IP, and WAR clearly doesn't. This is even apparent in your short summary.

1. Why should the High Elves and the Dwarfs band together? Jon Wood mentions that the Elves do so reluctantly. The dwarfs on the other hand have their Book of Grudges and a grudge as big as the War of Beards is never forgotten. Especially since the war was fought on two fronts, against the Elves on one side and the Orcs on the other, which apparently had a good timing for a WAAAAGH. (Note: I am not saying Elves and Orcs banded together, they conicidentally fight at the same time but on different fronts against the dwarves). Massive battles against two powerful enemies were responsible for the demise of so many dwarven realms.

Never ever would the Dwarfs ally with the Elves, they'd fight their battles alongside the humans, but not the Elves. They would literally rather die.

2. From time to time the Chaos armies come together under the rule of one exceptionally powerful warrior, but this does not include the Greenskins. They are their own party, and their sole aim is to fight. Either against other races  or against each other. They have as much reason to fight against Chaos, as they do against the Dwarves. (This has been covered by the first or second expansion to the Warhammer RTS)

I cannot really talk about the Dark Elves since I don't know enough about them, so I won't make any comments in that respect.

What is the world of WAR then? It is clearly not in accordance with the Warhammer IP. The same races, locations and classes for sure, but not the history. This is what my grudge against Mythic is. They simplified a really complex world. In Warhammer it was never two armies, consisting of several races, fighting, but there was always the threat of a third or fourth party turning the tides of war into unseen directions. In Warhammer their are very few alliances that hold, one is the pact between dwarves and empire. Everyone else fights for himself.

The complexity of such a situation is not covered in WAR, which makes it actually pointless to talk about the Lore behind the armies. That Lore belongs to Warhammer not WAR.

  Gröm

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/06
Posts: 304

Born to Lose, Live to Win

8/25/08 11:29:44 AM#5

I have to agree with Fuerchtegott. But I also reckon that Warhammer setting (specially on table top) is to make each race, each army to fight against each other, meaning each miniature collectors i.e. TT gamers to be able to fight against any designated army.
Of course you could still have Orcs rally with a Chaos Warband fighting against Undead (as a pure example that is). But for WAR they "had", imho, to band (and bend the IP a little bit) Order Vs Destruction, just to have two main factions divided in 3.
Ok, Mythic could have made it the same way as Games Worshop did but probably for balance and other circumstances sake made it that High Elves and Dwaves could fight together against Destruction (as to make it more simple as well).

I hope I made what I've state clear.

Anyway it was a nice reading specially that it could be a good introduction to future WAR players.

Cheers!

  punchie

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/06
Posts: 3

DIE!!! DIE DIE DIE AND ROT IN HELL!!!1

- Punchie in WoW Battlegrounds

8/25/08 12:22:48 PM#6

Orc's have been known to band together with anyone capable of bringing enough fighting their way to keep them entertained, which is exactly what the darkelfs have done in WAR. I regard to the dwarves and the high elfs. i would reckon that their honour demands that they come to the aid of the empire and thus indirectly come to the aid of the high elves, lest they be oath breakers.

PvP 4tw

  eirek

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/05
Posts: 110

"Drama is life''s food, everyone needs it"

8/25/08 12:47:15 PM#7

There are plenty of times in the Warhammer IP that dwarves have fight alongside the Elves.  They do so reluctantly but they do say when needed.

 

Pull out your manuals and books and start reading, there are PLENTY of times, both before and after the Elf king dying.

  gamerman98

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/04
Posts: 828

8/25/08 2:39:38 PM#8


Originally posted by Fuerchtegott
Nice read, however, redundant. Why? Because it essentially collides with the game mechanics of WAR.
This is probably my harshest point of criticism about WAR. I don't really care whether the graphics are as good, or as bad as any other game, or game is imbalanced etc. As long as the game itself is fun to play, these are only minor issues.
A game, especially based on an IP, should harmonize with this IP, and WAR clearly doesn't. This is even apparent in your short summary.
1. Why should the High Elves and the Dwarfs band together? Jon Wood mentions that the Elves do so reluctantly. The dwarfs on the other hand have their Book of Grudges and a grudge as big as the War of Beards is never forgotten. Especially since the war was fought on two fronts, against the Elves on one side and the Orcs on the other, which apparently had a good timing for a WAAAAGH. (Note: I am not saying Elves and Orcs banded together, they conicidentally fight at the same time but on different fronts against the dwarves). Massive battles against two powerful enemies were responsible for the demise of so many dwarven realms.
Never ever would the Dwarfs ally with the Elves, they'd fight their battles alongside the humans, but not the Elves. They would literally rather die.
2. From time to time the Chaos armies come together under the rule of one exceptionally powerful warrior, but this does not include the Greenskins. They are their own party, and their sole aim is to fight. Either against other races  or against each other. They have as much reason to fight against Chaos, as they do against the Dwarves. (This has been covered by the first or second expansion to the Warhammer RTS)
I cannot really talk about the Dark Elves since I don't know enough about them, so I won't make any comments in that respect.
What is the world of WAR then? It is clearly not in accordance with the Warhammer IP. The same races, locations and classes for sure, but not the history. This is what my grudge against Mythic is. They simplified a really complex world. In Warhammer it was never two armies, consisting of several races, fighting, but there was always the threat of a third or fourth party turning the tides of war into unseen directions. In Warhammer their are very few alliances that hold, one is the pact between dwarves and empire. Everyone else fights for himself.
The complexity of such a situation is not covered in WAR, which makes it actually pointless to talk about the Lore behind the armies. That Lore belongs to Warhammer not WAR.

If you knew anything about this game is that its not during a set time of the timeline...hence the secondary title "Age of Reckoning" The same people who created the game are working with Mythic. This game is set in its own time APPROVED AND CREATED BY the same people who created Warhammer. So if your going to spit in the face of this game, then you sir just spit in the face of the same people who made the IP period.

  Juankis

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 166

8/25/08 8:08:55 PM#9
Originally posted by Fuerchtegott

Nice read, however, redundant. Why? Because it essentially collides with the game mechanics of WAR.

This is probably my harshest point of criticism about WAR. I don't really care whether the graphics are as good, or as bad as any other game, or game is imbalanced etc. As long as the game itself is fun to play, these are only minor issues.

A game, especially based on an IP, should harmonize with this IP, and WAR clearly doesn't. This is even apparent in your short summary.

1. Why should the High Elves and the Dwarfs band together? Jon Wood mentions that the Elves do so reluctantly. The dwarfs on the other hand have their Book of Grudges and a grudge as big as the War of Beards is never forgotten. Especially since the war was fought on two fronts, against the Elves on one side and the Orcs on the other, which apparently had a good timing for a WAAAAGH. (Note: I am not saying Elves and Orcs banded together, they conicidentally fight at the same time but on different fronts against the dwarves). Massive battles against two powerful enemies were responsible for the demise of so many dwarven realms.

Never ever would the Dwarfs ally with the Elves, they'd fight their battles alongside the humans, but not the Elves. They would literally rather die.

 

Actually as stated during the Storm of Chaos (offical worldwide campaing from GW), the Dwarfs would rather ally with the Elves than let the world fall to chaos and darkness. So I don't know where you get your assumption. Or are you one of those guys that think they know the Warhammer Lore  better than GW themselves.

Originally posted by Fuerchtegott

2. From time to time the Chaos armies come together under the rule of one exceptionally powerful warrior, but this does not include the Greenskins. They are their own party, and their sole aim is to fight. Either against other races  or against each other. They have as much reason to fight against Chaos, as they do against the Dwarves. (This has been covered by the first or second expansion to the Warhammer RTS)

I cannot really talk about the Dark Elves since I don't know enough about them, so I won't make any comments in that respect.

If you read, the story behind the Age of Reckoning, you'll see why the Dark Elves are working alongside the Chaos and Orc armies.

So in my opinion the events described in the game's background do fit within the setting as stablished by GW.

  Ichmen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 1234

hatred enriches.life is a prison, death a release.

8/26/08 2:02:40 AM#10

first off like to point out WAR is not a direct port. if it was we would have PC skaven. undead. britionian,boarder princes. the northmen of kiliv (or how ever its spelt  ><) as well as tomb kings and other armys...

 

WAR is solely on emp vs chaos ork vs dwarf and elf vs elf.

 

so in that regard the dwarfs are not really allied with the HE they are allied with the Empire.  the dwarfs only work with elf foke if the need requires it do to their grudges.

that doesnt mean they wont work with them. if it means they survive but on the other hand they dont really work with anyone but the empire do to sigmar's history events.

 

that being said im not overly worried about the 3 sides allies it makes the game more playable. if you allow the elf and dwarf joining up.

other wise you may have the elf and dwarf fighting each other... :/

 

as for the ork... they side with anyone whos strong then them..  there are players at some game-days who have chaos orks in their armies. its not impossible for orks to be corrupted by chaos looks funny though.. haha..

 

so its quite possible the orks work with chaos purely do to them being the biggest and the strongest... as per ork logic.. the DE are great malipulators so its most likely they helped in getting orks to work with them..

 

all in all its mostly a device to give the game depth.. other wise it becomes a free for all  :/ and wouldnt be an armagedon style game its ment to be WAR is ment to be the end of the world.. so each race has  to join a side to survive ^^

CPU: Intel Core i7 CPU 860 2.8GHz
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  needalife214

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/30/06
Posts: 1129

Big Bang happened. And life happened. Then you trolls somehow got here?

8/26/08 3:54:51 AM#11

i do not know a lot of about the lore of warhammer and such  but if you read the back story on the offical site  (you know the one with out forums)  there is the reason for the GAME   then you will see why the greenskins fight with the Dark elfs and so and so...come on people from the start MYthic has said that the game is on a different timeline....

  Fuerchtegott

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 79

8/26/08 3:57:42 AM#12

I admit it has been some time since i looked into WFB since I am more a roleplayer than a tabletop player. I didn’t assume the two being so far apart, especially since the 2nd edition of WFRP. On the other hand, I could say that the Warhammer novels also do not support the background of WAR. But I guess as gamerman98 so aptly put it WAR is not during a set time of the timeline, so why go back to the timeline and tell the story of the armies?

 

I know that High Elves come to the rescue of the Empire from time to time, and thus fight alongside the dwarves. This happens only in times of exceptional threat and danger and this is the point where I lost my argument probably. I forgot that the world of WAR is in constant exceptional threat and danger, thus making the exceptionality a normality. Danger, however, looses its threatening character if there is no state without danger to return to. This in mind, it makes it rather pointless to rely on the lore of Warhammer if the grudge that the dwarves bear has no relevance due to the exceptionality of the situation.

 

Regarding the Dark Elves dealings I point to what I said above that I do not know enough about them to make any (in my eyes) qualified arguments. Concerning the alliance between Chaos and Orcs, yes, I know this happened, but I regard it similar to the banding of dwarves and humans, and again my argument is countered by the exceptionality of the situation… Besides, how often have they fought each other? Why is this aspect not covered by the game either? What does give more importance to the one and less to the other? The fact that both armies don’t look “nice” (nice in a Ken and Barbie sense).

 

My point in all my ramblings is: The way Mythic transported Warhammer IP to WAR weakens the original IP considerably and simplifies the world to a simple Order vs. Destruction. All the nuances of the conflicts in between armies of one and the same side gets lost, we return to a simple Alliance vs. Horde (oops, did I actually say that?). I understand that this happens for the sake of game mechanics, since a multi-fraction conflict would be hard to code and balance. However, as everyone knows and loves to point out, Mythic has done that exactly in a preceding MMORPG.

I assume that the first expansion will introduce two new armies to the game and in a daring prediction I will say it will be Skaven and Bretonnians. Now, the tabletop players on these boards will make away with my ignorance and tell me the Skaven have often enough banded with Chaos and Greenskin.

The fundamental question is, where is Games Workshop going with this? Do they want believability of their worlds, thus enabling players to immerse into them? Or do they want arbitrariness? Why are Greenskins and Chaos enemies in the WFB and the RTS, occasionally allies in WFB but constantly allies in the MMO? It seems to me that it really doesn’t matter to GW or Mythic. In that case, knowing about the lore of Warhammer is truly pointless.

 

@ gamerman98

Criticism and spitting in the face are two very different things. The first is an intellectual analytical act and done right might gain you the respect of the other person. The second is a physical act and done right might gain you a good physical beating up. If you are not capable of the former, and I not able to respond adequately to the latter, please stop be insulting and start gaining the respect of other people.

  tuffy2003

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/08
Posts: 1

8/26/08 11:40:08 AM#13

Man these jokers So ripped off Wow, Bliz should sue. They should come up with their own ideas insead of the ripping of other people... Why play the copy when you can play the original!

  Ichmen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/06
Posts: 1234

hatred enriches.life is a prison, death a release.

8/26/08 5:23:43 PM#14
Originally posted by tuffy2003

Man these jokers So ripped off Wow, Bliz should sue. They should come up with their own ideas insead of the ripping of other people... Why play the copy when you can play the original!

 

 

(begin facepalm)

and that is why i wish WoW fanboys would die ....

they know nothing have little to no IQ and perseve WoW created the world......

(/end facepalm)

CPU: Intel Core i7 CPU 860 2.8GHz
Evga GeForce 670 FTW
Evga P55 SLI

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  uktitan

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/04
Posts: 6

8/26/08 5:39:20 PM#15

Man these jokers So ripped off Wow, Bliz should sue. They should come up with their own ideas insead of the ripping of other people... Why play the copy when you can play the original!

 


 

 

LOL Here come the retards lol. I wish wow fanbois would Actually get their facts streight Before they open their mouths and make themselfs look silly hehe.

  Noctique

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/06
Posts: 216

To speak with the shadows, you must know the language of the darkness.

8/27/08 6:28:24 PM#16
Originally posted by tuffy2003

Man these jokers So ripped off Wow, Bliz should sue. They should come up with their own ideas insead of the ripping of other people... Why play the copy when you can play the original!


 

Ah not enough balls to use his main account that they have to create a alt one to try and bait people.

Either that or this person has down syndrom and shuld be left to play WoW on his own.

Oh and on a sue note, did anyone know Blizzard payed out to Games Workshop a good few years back? (I know its true I read it on the internet)

Die Noctique, By Day and Night

  Keeper2000

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/06
Posts: 647

8/30/08 5:39:04 PM#17
Originally posted by Fuerchtegott

My point in all my ramblings is: The way Mythic transported Warhammer IP to WAR weakens the original IP considerably and simplifies the world to a simple Order vs. Destruction. All the nuances of the conflicts in between armies of one and the same side gets lost, we return to a simple Alliance vs. Horde (oops, did I actually say that?). I understand that this happens for the sake of game mechanics, since a multi-fraction conflict would be hard to code and balance. However, as everyone knows and loves to point out, Mythic has done that exactly in a preceding MMORPG.

I assume that the first expansion will introduce two new armies to the game and in a daring prediction I will say it will be Skaven and Bretonnians. Now, the tabletop players on these boards will make away with my ignorance and tell me the Skaven have often enough banded with Chaos and Greenskin.

The fundamental question is, where is Games Workshop going with this? Do they want believability of their worlds, thus enabling players to immerse into them? Or do they want arbitrariness? Why are Greenskins and Chaos enemies in the WFB and the RTS, occasionally allies in WFB but constantly allies in the MMO? It seems to me that it really doesn’t matter to GW or Mythic. In that case, knowing about the lore of Warhammer is truly pointless.

 

@ gamerman98

Criticism and spitting in the face are two very different things. The first is an intellectual analytical act and done right might gain you the respect of the other person. The second is a physical act and done right might gain you a good physical beating up. If you are not capable of the former, and I not able to respond adequately to the latter, please stop be insulting and start gaining the respect of other people.

 

Imo, a faction game is not "hard" to code.  But faction PvP is not RvR.  Not sure about the balance part... depends on the implementation of the faction PvP, I guess.  Anyway, yes, the chose 2 realms (which have benefits and problems too vs, for example, DAoC 3 realms).

I would like if they add a third realm but I doubt it... that will be a huge xpac.

All the graphics and some other stuff were approved by GW.  Not sure if they approved directly the RvR but I guess they did because they actually made the agreement with Mythic.

I understand your points.  I reeally have no clue what will be the future xpacs, neither what's the strategy that GW planed.  I guess they wanted their IP in a MMO... it will bust their sell and maybe sell future games and more stuff.

Maybe you should try to write to GW or check their press infos and such.  I do think RvR is the best PvP implementation for the WAR IP.  When they announced it and then they said it would be a RvR game, I was happy.  Of course, it has it contraints.  All games will have it.

Anyway, I liked your analysis.  In the end, this is just a MMO with WAR's IP as lore... it will fit more or less as they can make if fit (in this case, greenies are permanent allies with dark elves and chaos people... not perfect but as well as they could fit it).

Knowing about the lore of a MMO is totally optional.  Some people will read the ToK, books, the quests, buy the rule books, the tabletop games, etc, etc, etc.  Other will have no clue at all of what Skaven is.  The lore is just part of the MMO.

How much pointless is or not to know the lore?  (I understand this as the key question of your post)  Well, as much as you will enjoy the game with or without knowing it.  I like to know about the lore of the games; others wont.  ;)

One of the firsts RTS (I think it was actually the first one, but not 100% sure) was Dune... I wonder how many people playing Dune in that time actually knew anything about the lore?  I wonder how many people laying LoTRO know really the lore, more than just having watched the movie.  Or how many people playing DAoC knows about the vikings' lore or the celts' lore.  Or how many playing PoTBS read about how the pirates' life were and such.  I mean the lore, the universe in which a game is immerse, is not really necessary to be known by the players... It's there for the players that actually care about it.

I remember some MMO dev saying that the Lore (when they buy the IP over an existant universe) is just to make the dev cycle smaller by not having to design it from scratches.

In the case of WAR, one interesting thing is that, accordingly with Mythic, GW had to approve all the design stuff.  It's in one of their videos.  Check their website, if you interested.

Anyway, it's great to see people that liek the Warhammer universe around.  I hope you join us in the game!

Salutes!

 

 

  donas

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/08
Posts: 2

9/01/08 9:02:05 AM#18

some of what i'm seeing means that a few people did not read the background story on the Warhammer Online main site. If you read the background story it gives you the setting for the events going on during the game. Everything that they have done in the game they HAVE cross checked and gotten blessings from Games Workshop before they put it into the game. Some of the ideas they had where not proper for the IP so they where not put into the game, everything that is in the game way appoved by Games Workshop so that it doesn't mess about with the information that is in the IP.