Originally posted by Sovrath 

I'm starting to think that people who want this sandbox style game are really just looking for social interaction. There is no questing per se so you basically seek out other players.

They are not looking so much for a game but for online friends. If this is indeed the case it borders on a little creepy to my thinking.

Better stick with the day job Sov, psychology isn't your strong suit.

I play EVE, and yet am a fairly anti-social person/player.  I have no great loyalties, make no real friends, I'm sort of a wanderer going from place to place looking for adventure.

In my first year of EVE I've fought in Stealth fleets, helped take down player owned stations by the score, helped my corporation in mining or shipping operations, refilled stations to keep our manufacturing engines rolling, fought in large fleet engagements and been destroyed by Titans. 

I've killed many, made a decent living (by no means a rich player), avoided all mining, flown cover for others, begun building up a base of steady income that I don't actually have to work for.  I can fly scout, probe out hidden fleets, jam the enemy so they can't return fire and let loose with long range guns that others can't come close to matching.

I've fought directly against the largest empire in the game (BOB) and along side some of the games other big hitters (Goonswarm who are one crazy bunch) and Red Army (who says you need to understand your allies to actually coordinate a fight)

I've had my alliances utterly wiped from the universe, and at the same time, have been on the winning side and seen other alliances vanish from the game.

I'm currently fighting in an empire corp which uses wardecs to get its pvp fix and its added a whole new dimension to EVE for me.

The only questing I do is mission running, as I find it an easy way to make cash at times.  Ratting in 0.0 is another favorite activity, as I prefer things that involve shooting things as a means to make an income.

And yet, there's so much I haven't experienced yet.  So much to look forward in my 2nd year.  I've only scratched the surface of what is possible in EVE, and I think I've got a long run ahead of me.

Sandbox style games such as EVE offer so many more opportunities to define your own role in a game, but they are not for everyone.  I'm afraid I'm I'm damaged now, the standard, quest driven, level based, no risk/reward for pvp type game just isn't that interesting anymore. (to me)

Originally posted by Wolfkrone

Originally posted by DonnieBrasco

Originally posted by Wolfkrone

It is NOT a Sandbox. HOWEVER, unless your a fan of the Lord of the Rings book you should probably avoid LOTRO. Apart from maybe the music system (which is a minor thing, no matter how fun it is) this game does not offer anything new. That being said, the environments ARE lovely.

 

Well, I am not a particular fan of the LOTRO universe, but I think this game is excellent, therefore what you wrote is not true. Very misleading in the best case.

DB

 

Oh it's fine, but it doesn't offer anything new. What LoTRO has to offer (apart from being able to roleplay in the LoTRO universe or it's music system) is not enough to warrant buying it.

While the landscape graphics are lovely, the character models are lacking. Combat itself is boring and (suprisingly) inferior to WoW's (I am a WoW critic, I absolutely hate that game), the only thing that makes you different from somebody else in your class (combat wise) are traits. PvP is also lacking, PvMP revolves around controlling several forts in the Ettenmoors, I will admit however that LoTRO was not designed with hardcore PvP in mind. Quests, same old kill this/gather that, the storyline quests are the only relief but they don't happen enough (and are not unique either, when you compare them to other MMORPG's on the market).

Player Housing is all instanced and not something overly great, it doesn't topple the best player housing currently in a MMORPG (which is SWG, a shame they ruined that game). The Classes themselves are quite cliche for a fantasy MMO, there is only a small number of them too (when compared to some other Fantasy MMORPG's). Crafting, it's basic, simplistic and does not add to the MMORPG genre at all, it's also inferior to the best crafting currently in an MMORPG (once again, this belongs to SWG). Character creation is bare, especially when compared to games such as SWG and AoC.

There is some good points to LoTRO. The appearance system, it's good that you can choose the appearance of one item but wear a different one for stats, however, it's not unique (think Everquest II). Art Style, the art style in this game is lovely, items themselves are very well done, it's not often you'll see atrocious looking pieces of crap which plague WoW. Music System, a great idea that's executed well, it can be fun to chill out and just screw around with various notes, you can download ABC files and tell the game to play that file while sitting back and listening. Lore, probably the main selling point to LoTRO is the fact it's Lord of the fuckin Rings, probably one of the best fantasy stories ever, if your a roleplayer or a LOTR fan you will love LoTRO.

BUT, as I've said, it offers nothing overly new, it probably wasn't trying too. But if your looking for a new MMO that's creative then this isn't it, sadly, because I loved the LOTR books.

What you're desribing above is all a matter of personal taste, nothing more.

I did not mean to debate those, I merely countered your argument, in which you said that only fans of the LOTR universe would enjoy that game. That is not true, myself being one example of the opposite.

DB

Originally posted by DonnieBrasco

Originally posted by Wolfkrone

Originally posted by DonnieBrasco

Originally posted by Wolfkrone

It is NOT a Sandbox. HOWEVER, unless your a fan of the Lord of the Rings book you should probably avoid LOTRO. Apart from maybe the music system (which is a minor thing, no matter how fun it is) this game does not offer anything new. That being said, the environments ARE lovely.

 

Well, I am not a particular fan of the LOTRO universe, but I think this game is excellent, therefore what you wrote is not true. Very misleading in the best case.

DB

 

Oh it's fine, but it doesn't offer anything new. What LoTRO has to offer (apart from being able to roleplay in the LoTRO universe or it's music system) is not enough to warrant buying it.

While the landscape graphics are lovely, the character models are lacking. Combat itself is boring and (suprisingly) inferior to WoW's (I am a WoW critic, I absolutely hate that game), the only thing that makes you different from somebody else in your class (combat wise) are traits. PvP is also lacking, PvMP revolves around controlling several forts in the Ettenmoors, I will admit however that LoTRO was not designed with hardcore PvP in mind. Quests, same old kill this/gather that, the storyline quests are the only relief but they don't happen enough (and are not unique either, when you compare them to other MMORPG's on the market).

Player Housing is all instanced and not something overly great, it doesn't topple the best player housing currently in a MMORPG (which is SWG, a shame they ruined that game). The Classes themselves are quite cliche for a fantasy MMO, there is only a small number of them too (when compared to some other Fantasy MMORPG's). Crafting, it's basic, simplistic and does not add to the MMORPG genre at all, it's also inferior to the best crafting currently in an MMORPG (once again, this belongs to SWG). Character creation is bare, especially when compared to games such as SWG and AoC.

There is some good points to LoTRO. The appearance system, it's good that you can choose the appearance of one item but wear a different one for stats, however, it's not unique (think Everquest II). Art Style, the art style in this game is lovely, items themselves are very well done, it's not often you'll see atrocious looking pieces of crap which plague WoW. Music System, a great idea that's executed well, it can be fun to chill out and just screw around with various notes, you can download ABC files and tell the game to play that file while sitting back and listening. Lore, probably the main selling point to LoTRO is the fact it's Lord of the fuckin Rings, probably one of the best fantasy stories ever, if your a roleplayer or a LOTR fan you will love LoTRO.

BUT, as I've said, it offers nothing overly new, it probably wasn't trying too. But if your looking for a new MMO that's creative then this isn't it, sadly, because I loved the LOTR books.

What you're desribing above is all a matter of personal taste, nothing more.

I did not mean to debate those, I merely countered your argument, in which you said that only fans of the LOTR universe would enjoy that game. That is not true, myself being one example of the opposite.

DB

Alright. I'll change my statement to 'you would enjoy yourself in a more 'fleshed out' MMORPG'. ;)

Originally posted by Wolfkrone

Originally posted by DonnieBrasco 

 

Alright. I'll change my statement to 'you would enjoy yourself in a more 'fleshed out' MMORPG'. ;)

Better... :) but would still be more fair using the first person: "I am enjoying myself myself in a more "fleshed out" MMORPG" :) Noone can speak for other's tastes in great confidence!

Glad you got my point though :)

DB

Originally posted by Sovrath

Yeah, that's what I heard. A friend of mine played SWG and told me it was like a virtual job.

I'm starting to think that people who want this sandbox style game are really just looking for social interaction. There is no questing per se so you basically seek out other players.

They are not looking so much for a game but for online friends. If this is indeed the case it borders on a little creepy to my thinking.

People seeking social interaction is creepy? That's a novel view.

Just to offer a different one, what distinguishes sandbox style games from eg. games like WoW, is the emphasis on players. It is, like you say, less about coded game content (or questing as you put it) and more about other players.

Quests are a bit like single player offline games. The only difference is they're set in a world you share with other players, and you can interact with those players while completing the quests.

Sandbox style games create a world environment in which that player interaction is the game, eg. via:

• pvp
• player control of the gameworld (building structures, politics, ability to affect the game's story etc.)

The advantage of sandbox games is that they're less predictable. The disadvantage is that they're less predictable.

Supposedly you're less likely to get bored, because players are less predictable. On the other hand, it's very difficult to control the quality of the game experience. IMO, this is why there aren't any really successful sandbox mmos on the market. Players are complex and unpredictable, and designing environments in which they will provide a quality game experience - without any game content and to suit the tastes of a broad audience - is nigh impossible.

The answer is what it so often is - a middle road. Most of the big mmos in development since WoW's release have tried to offer both, which is the ideal. If there's quest content + elements of sandbox gameplay, and players can pick or choose as they like, then that's the safer bet.

Pure sandbox mmos are not.

Like others have pointed out, Middle Earth Online was going to be fairly sandboxy. LOTRO sits much closer to WoW.

If you really want a sanbox game. Try Roma Victor.

Originally posted by Lizard_SF

Originally posted by unherdninja

Originally posted by Lizard_SF

Originally posted by unherdninja

First, please learn to slow down and correct typo's in your sentances.

 

Dude, you just pegged my irony meter.

 

Ok first what's wrong with the word typo? Second I’m not talking about little mistakes like putting an a instead of an e in sentence. The OP butchered his whole post. You have to agree. If you don’t then your just being argumentative.

 

You do not use an apostrophe to indicate plurals.

Apostrophes are used to indicate contractions (It's==It is) or possessives (The bee's knees). It is not used to warn the reader that an 's' might be coming.

Also, it should be "you're just being", that is, "You are just being". "Your" is used to indicate possession, again, "This is your boat". On the other hand, you *could* have said "Ur just being", so, props for not doing that.

It is a fundamental rule of the internet that any post critiquing grammar or spelling will, itself, contain such errors. It is unavoidable. I just found your (not you're) post especially amusing.

And of course I'm being argumentative. This is the Internet.

(And I know you shouldn't start sentences with and. But I do it anyway. Also, you shouldn't start sentences with but. The irony continues to mount...)

 

You are my new God.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by tfox2k1

Do people even know what a 'sandbox' style game is?    Apparently not since they keep asking for one.   A sandbox is an open environment where you build the entertainment.     Something such as Second Life.   UO is fairly sandbox, no quests.   SWG was sandbox, again no questing just running around exploring.

Know what?    SWG sucked at release, there was NOTHING to do except craft and explore huge empty areas.  

 

A sandbox MMO is one with just a world and nothing to do in it except explore.   Thankfully LOTRO has nearly limitless activities and goals to accomplish.   If you want LOTRO to be sandbox, just avoid all the developer made goals and create your OWN!

The vast majority of the world is entirely open for you to explore and sandbox.   Take your sandbox to the three Trolls turned to stone from the books and have a tea party.   YEAH!  Sandbox play!

 

 

 

Yeah, that's what I heard. A friend of mine played SWG and told me it was like a virtual job.

I'm starting to think that people who want this sandbox style game are really just looking for social interaction. There is no questing per se so you basically seek out other players.

They are not looking so much for a game but for online friends. If this is indeed the case it borders on a little creepy to my thinking.

MY irony meter is pegging. [-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-]   (11)

Hint: You just posted that on a forum dedicated to online-only video games.

Originally posted by Lizard_SF

Originally posted by unherdninja

Originally posted by Lizard_SF

Originally posted by unherdninja

First, please learn to slow down and correct typo's in your sentances.

 

Dude, you just pegged my irony meter.

 

Ok first what's wrong with the word typo? Second I’m not talking about little mistakes like putting an a instead of an e in sentence. The OP butchered his whole post. You have to agree. If you don’t then your just being argumentative.

 

You do not use an apostrophe to indicate plurals.

Apostrophes are used to indicate contractions (It's==It is) or possessives (The bee's knees). It is not used to warn the reader that an 's' might be coming.

Also, it should be "you're just being", that is, "You are just being". "Your" is used to indicate possession, again, "This is your boat". On the other hand, you *could* have said "Ur just being", so, props for not doing that.

It is a fundamental rule of the internet that any post critiquing grammar or spelling will, itself, contain such errors. It is unavoidable. I just found your (not you're) post especially amusing.

And of course I'm being argumentative. This is the Internet.

(And I know you shouldn't start sentences with and. But I do it anyway. Also, you shouldn't start sentences with but. The irony continues to mount...)

 

*Tips hat to Lizard*
 

Ok fine. You win this one. Ill be back though.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Sovrath 

I'm starting to think that people who want this sandbox style game are really just looking for social interaction. There is no questing per se so you basically seek out other players.

They are not looking so much for a game but for online friends. If this is indeed the case it borders on a little creepy to my thinking.

 

Better stick with the day job Sov, psychology isn't your strong suit.

I play EVE, and yet am a fairly anti-social person/player.  I have no great loyalties, make no real friends, I'm sort of a wanderer going from place to place looking for adventure.

In my first year of EVE I've fought in Stealth fleets, helped take down player owned stations by the score, helped my corporation in mining or shipping operations, refilled stations to keep our manufacturing engines rolling, fought in large fleet engagements and been destroyed by Titans. 

I've killed many, made a decent living (by no means a rich player), avoided all mining, flown cover for others, begun building up a base of steady income that I don't actually have to work for.  I can fly scout, probe out hidden fleets, jam the enemy so they can't return fire and let loose with long range guns that others can't come close to matching.

I've fought directly against the largest empire in the game (BOB) and along side some of the games other big hitters (Goonswarm who are one crazy bunch) and Red Army (who says you need to understand your allies to actually coordinate a fight)

I've had my alliances utterly wiped from the universe, and at the same time, have been on the winning side and seen other alliances vanish from the game.

I'm currently fighting in an empire corp which uses wardecs to get its pvp fix and its added a whole new dimension to EVE for me.

The only questing I do is mission running, as I find it an easy way to make cash at times.  Ratting in 0.0 is another favorite activity, as I prefer things that involve shooting things as a means to make an income.

And yet, there's so much I haven't experienced yet.  So much to look forward in my 2nd year.  I've only scratched the surface of what is possible in EVE, and I think I've got a long run ahead of me.

Sandbox style games such as EVE offer so many more opportunities to define your own role in a game, but they are not for everyone.  I'm afraid I'm I'm damaged now, the standard, quest driven, level based, no risk/reward for pvp type game just isn't that interesting anymore. (to me)

 

 

 

Omg... This post seriously, seriously makes me want to play Eve... A game that I have tried the trial 3 times and even payed a month and couldn't get into, and this post makes me want to try again.

Your last paragraph really hits home for me. My first MMO was Star Wars Galaxies (pre-nge)... Honestly, I'm damaged too. Nothing can even come close.

Frankly, If WAR can't hold me over until Jumpgate Evolution or Earthrise comes out, I'm gonna try to get into Eve again.

 

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Sovrath 

I'm starting to think that people who want this sandbox style game are really just looking for social interaction. There is no questing per se so you basically seek out other players.

They are not looking so much for a game but for online friends. If this is indeed the case it borders on a little creepy to my thinking.

 

Better stick with the day job Sov, psychology isn't your strong suit.

I play EVE, and yet am a fairly anti-social person/player.  I have no great loyalties, make no real friends, I'm sort of a wanderer going from place to place looking for adventure.

In my first year of EVE I've fought in Stealth fleets, helped take down player owned stations by the score, helped my corporation in mining or shipping operations, refilled stations to keep our manufacturing engines rolling, fought in large fleet engagements and been destroyed by Titans. 

I've killed many, made a decent living (by no means a rich player), avoided all mining, flown cover for others, begun building up a base of steady income that I don't actually have to work for.  I can fly scout, probe out hidden fleets, jam the enemy so they can't return fire and let loose with long range guns that others can't come close to matching.

I've fought directly against the largest empire in the game (BOB) and along side some of the games other big hitters (Goonswarm who are one crazy bunch) and Red Army (who says you need to understand your allies to actually coordinate a fight)

I've had my alliances utterly wiped from the universe, and at the same time, have been on the winning side and seen other alliances vanish from the game.

I'm currently fighting in an empire corp which uses wardecs to get its pvp fix and its added a whole new dimension to EVE for me.

The only questing I do is mission running, as I find it an easy way to make cash at times.  Ratting in 0.0 is another favorite activity, as I prefer things that involve shooting things as a means to make an income.

And yet, there's so much I haven't experienced yet.  So much to look forward in my 2nd year.  I've only scratched the surface of what is possible in EVE, and I think I've got a long run ahead of me.

Sandbox style games such as EVE offer so many more opportunities to define your own role in a game, but they are not for everyone.  I'm afraid I'm I'm damaged now, the standard, quest driven, level based, no risk/reward for pvp type game just isn't that interesting anymore. (to me)

 

 

 

There is a difference between meeting online and working together with people and actually signing in online as an interactive chat room.

But I suppose I just can't appreciate the idea of reaching out through the internet for personal interaction. I know, that sounds weird this being a site for for "online" games.

But if you take it for the spirit of the statement, I can then say that I have "real" friends in real life. When I sign online, though I have made "friends" online, they know verylittle about me, they don't come over my house for pizza night, I don't talk about my personal problems in any depth with them. Doesn't mean I don't like them and appreciate them. But I truly don't believe that online friends foster better friendships then friends who are there in real life. You might disagree (as do others) but when I'm down or need someone to talk with I don't log on. I find there is an impersonal layer to that. Of course this can be s symptom of the age of face book and my space. Maybe my age as I'm older and don't look upon online interaction as having the same depth as real face to face personal interaction. This is not to say that one can't foster such relationships and meet face to face and develope a friendship but I'm online to "play games" and do so with others. Not to "make friends".

I'm not online to seek out new friendships or to reach out. Therefore, getting back to my statement, my purpose is to "not shoot the shit" but to do quests or tasks with others. I find from many posts I have read, people seem to desire the more "personal" chatting in OOC chat and grinding while tallking.

I want to "do" somehting, not chat. And if that is what it boils down to I will seek entertainment elsewhere as I have friends to chat with. They live in this town, up the street, etc.

I'm afraid, though I have made friends online, my closer more intimate relationships have been with people in the here and now. These are the relationships that are more real. It is my hope that players of online games have this as well and are not solely seeking "virtual" friends. I just don't believe the same level of depth can be found. You may disagree (as well as others) but from what I've seen and experienced I feel I'm correct.

So I play online games to "do things" with others and to "be social" but not to make and foster relationships. That is the crux of my statement or at least what I wanted to convey.

It boils down to the "get out in the sunlight" comment that I've seen so many post!

Originally posted by unherdninja

Originally posted by Lizard_SF

Originally posted by unherdninja

First, please learn to slow down and correct typo's in your sentances.

 

Dude, you just pegged my irony meter.

 

Ok first what's wrong with the word typo? Second I’m not talking about little mistakes like putting an a instead of an e in sentence. The OP butchered his whole post. You have to agree. If you don’t then your just being argumentative.

Haha.... this is funny shit!  I think the lesson here is don't point out others spelling and gramatical errors with your own spelling and gramatical errors.

Originally posted by Sovrath

 

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Sovrath 

I'm starting to think that people who want this sandbox style game are really just looking for social interaction. There is no questing per se so you basically seek out other players.

They are not looking so much for a game but for online friends. If this is indeed the case it borders on a little creepy to my thinking.

 

Better stick with the day job Sov, psychology isn't your strong suit.

I play EVE, and yet am a fairly anti-social person/player.  I have no great loyalties, make no real friends, I'm sort of a wanderer going from place to place looking for adventure.

In my first year of EVE I've fought in Stealth fleets, helped take down player owned stations by the score, helped my corporation in mining or shipping operations, refilled stations to keep our manufacturing engines rolling, fought in large fleet engagements and been destroyed by Titans. 

I've killed many, made a decent living (by no means a rich player), avoided all mining, flown cover for others, begun building up a base of steady income that I don't actually have to work for.  I can fly scout, probe out hidden fleets, jam the enemy so they can't return fire and let loose with long range guns that others can't come close to matching.

I've fought directly against the largest empire in the game (BOB) and along side some of the games other big hitters (Goonswarm who are one crazy bunch) and Red Army (who says you need to understand your allies to actually coordinate a fight)

I've had my alliances utterly wiped from the universe, and at the same time, have been on the winning side and seen other alliances vanish from the game.

I'm currently fighting in an empire corp which uses wardecs to get its pvp fix and its added a whole new dimension to EVE for me.

The only questing I do is mission running, as I find it an easy way to make cash at times.  Ratting in 0.0 is another favorite activity, as I prefer things that involve shooting things as a means to make an income.

And yet, there's so much I haven't experienced yet.  So much to look forward in my 2nd year.  I've only scratched the surface of what is possible in EVE, and I think I've got a long run ahead of me.

Sandbox style games such as EVE offer so many more opportunities to define your own role in a game, but they are not for everyone.  I'm afraid I'm I'm damaged now, the standard, quest driven, level based, no risk/reward for pvp type game just isn't that interesting anymore. (to me)

 

 

 

 

There is a difference between meeting online and working together with people and actually signing in online as an interactive chat room.

But I suppose I just can't appreciate the idea of reaching out through the internet for personal interaction. I know, that sounds weird this being a site for for "online" games.

But if you take it for the spirit of the statement, I can then say that I have "real" friends in real life. When I sign online, though I have made "friends" online, they know verylittle about me, they don't come over my house for pizza night, I don't talk about my personal problems in any depth with them. Doesn't mean I don't like them and appreciate them. But I truly don't believe that online friends foster better friendships then friends who are there in real life. You might disagree (as do others) but when I'm down or need someone to talk with I don't log on. I find there is an impersonal layer to that. Of course this can be s symptom of the age of face book and my space. Maybe my age as I'm older and don't look upon online interaction as having the same depth as real face to face personal interaction. This is not to say that one can't foster such relationships and meet face to face and develope a friendship but I'm online to "play games" and do so with others. Not to "make friends".

I'm not online to seek out new friendships or to reach out. Therefore, getting back to my statement, my purpose is to "not shoot the shit" but to do quests or tasks with others. I find from many posts I have read, people seem to desire the more "personal" chatting in OOC chat and grinding while tallking.

I want to "do" somehting, not chat. And if that is what it boils down to I will seek entertainment elsewhere as I have friends to chat with. They live in this town, up the street, etc.

I'm afraid, though I have made friends online, my closer more intimate relationships have been with people in the here and now. These are the relationships that are more real. It is my hope that players of online games have this as well and are not solely seeking "virtual" friends. I just don't believe the same level of depth can be found. You may disagree (as well as others) but from what I've seen and experienced I feel I'm correct.

So I play online games to "do things" with others and to "be social" but not to make and foster relationships. That is the crux of my statement or at least what I wanted to convey.

It boils down to the "get out in the sunlight" comment that I've seen so many post!

 

Although I find the number of double quotes a little annoying, that doesn't make your post any less true. I'm an old bastard in MMO terms (check my profile) and I wouldn't think of talking to a "friend" online about my personal problems. I guess the people I meet online are more like my work friends than my real friends.

Originally posted by kedoremos

 

Although I find the number of double quotes a little annoying, that doesn't make your post any less true.

Yeah I notice I do that  a lot.

LOTRO is the opposite of sandbox

lots of linear quests to follow, linear level progression, set character classes etc

Even if it has the best quests, it's not much to talk about...