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Originally posted by Cereo
He is ACTUALLY complaining because the game isn't enough LIKE WoW, that he has to learn to ways to do things and it was annoying. He complains about he didn't have enough money?! Were you buying 150g epic items for a level 25 guy in WoW your first time through? No... get real man, you just hyped this game way too much in your head and you let yourself down, the game is fine.

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Maybe I did hype it up in my head too much, I don't know, but saying I want it to be MORE like WoW is complete garbage. I don't see how you could pull that from my post at all.

As for the money issue, no I wasn't buying "150g epic gems for a level 25 guy" but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about buying gear from a vendor in a game where that's the only practical way to get gear. How do you expect people to buy vendored equipment if they don't even have enough money to buy their skills?

I uninstalled as well, but not becase It was anything like WoW, I dont see how you got that because its not. And it IS a solid game. Your computer must be balls because Im on a macbook pro (radeon x1600, 2gigs, core 2 duo, your average computer these days) and I ran it on high quaity with only one crash throughout my couple of weeks of beta and this weekend. I also experience minimul lag. The game just wasnt for me, plain and simple. The PvE is a joke. I know its an RvR game but PvE couldve been a LITTLE better. PQs arent as fun as they sound. The game just got boring.

How in the hell do you not have enough money for skills? Did you level completely off of exploration?

I felt also this game was to much like WoW wich i have been burnt out on for awhile,I  will be cancelling my pre-order But like WoW this game would be fun for a short time I just dont feel like plaling the Same ole MMO again.

Did the OP even read my counter point? Any comments on it?

So playing the preview weekend as a black orc. I love the game, RVR is fun, It is very easy to make money, just sell lots of stuff, you get stuff from almost every monster you kill. By level 8 you should have enough to fully equip your character and public quests often times give awsome gear. As for crashes, I would say there are none because I havea  god machine computer. Even in those RVR with 50+ people around I get 0 lag. Again because I am past the system requirements.

CPU: Intel core 2 duo E8400 3.0 GHz     Graphics Card: nvidia 8800 GT    3GB memory

its pretty silly judging a game on BETA without even waiting for it to be released tbh. You don't just eat a half prepared meal at a restaurant do you?

yeah your opinion matters, and it probably matters to the game creators, so fill out a survey with all this on it and it might help the game.

Originally posted by Balthaazar1

If some people are saying it gets even better later levels, then Im sold. I believe no other game has been as fun in the early levels as War. People are judging the game as if the first 10 levels are the entire thing, but this is just the beginning and you're instantly thrown into the fray. In what fantasy game did you ever rescue people from burning buildings in your home town, have to recruit loyal farm folk and have them possibly try to kill you and get uppity, find suspicious barrels floating in the river and find out its like Bilbo sneaking up the river with dwarves in the Hobbit, have to disturb the graves of the dead to release a maelstrom of souls to summon a demon, watched a giant come breaking trees to kill you all, slain a dragon, shot down harpies with a bolt gun, fired huge cannons onto a battle field and flew through the air to leap upon a battlement all before level 10!

 

I was worried that later content would lose replay value as the fun lower level stuff might if done too often, but stories of how five held an entire siege castle by blocking the main gates and defending makes me optimistic, not to mention all the incredibly badass gear I saw the 30th players wearing in videos.  Sign me up, Im going to War.

Couldn't have said it better. =)

Originally posted by Aethios

Something else I forgot to mention were the Public Quests. They were a disappointment as well. I (and many others, likely) were expecting a huge effort that you can jump into, solo a bit, get some loot or whatever and feel like you are a part of something larger that contributes to the game. Instead, it's obvious that the PQs were designed for like 5 people, instead of the 30-40 that play them. The population between PQs is imbalanced as well, leaving probably 3/4 of them to be totally empty. The few that are completable have so many people working on them, you can't possibly have any hope of getting loot. Only the top 3 or so contributors actually get gear, unless you count the Influence Rewards which is usually only 1 usable item per zone.

They should have done it like the Battlegrounds in WoW, let people participate on a solo or small-group basis, earn Influence, exchange the Influence for gear and let them come back for more. Add the purple and blue items as Influence rewards and make them very, very expensive. As it stands now, 99% of the game's population has no hope of ever seeing a purple item before Rank 40, which gives those few who do get them a big lead in RvR.

Also, the bosses in PQs are too weak. With 30-40 people doing the PQ, the boss dies in 4-5 seconds. They should have anticipated that so many people would want to participate, or at least design the PQs to be dynamic and scale up with the number of people. It's very underwhelming.

This really worries me. As I really thought PQ's would scale up :(

The way you subscibe it just means the PQ's are seriously flawed and we all end up being extremely dissapointed not getting anything and a few lucky people dominating in RvR.

It's busy now in Preview weekend, but when the game launches you can expect even more people zerging these PQ's with a lot more then 30-40 players.

A real shame. I hope they are able to adress this before release. But my guts tell me it's too late now.

Glad the game is proving to hold its own against other mmorpgs. I needed a new game for sure. Another thing I read was that the tier areas of the world get progressively bigger until they are absolutely huge in scale and activity. I like the sense of progression. A fine game this will come release. The room for expansion is there too that make me really looking forward to coming years of War, and the best part of it all is, my very picky signifigant other loves the Warhammer universe, I can't play games without her since she's my best friend since ive known her.

I suggest anyone doing PQs for loot not bother. Until level 30+, renown gear will always beat out gear you get from PVE, espeically PQs..

Originally posted by Aethios

 

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Originally posted by Cereo
He is ACTUALLY complaining because the game isn't enough LIKE WoW, that he has to learn to ways to do things and it was annoying. He complains about he didn't have enough money?! Were you buying 150g epic items for a level 25 guy in WoW your first time through? No... get real man, you just hyped this game way too much in your head and you let yourself down, the game is fine.

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Maybe I did hype it up in my head too much, I don't know, but saying I want it to be MORE like WoW is complete garbage. I don't see how you could pull that from my post at all.

As for the money issue, no I wasn't buying "150g epic gems for a level 25 guy" but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about buying gear from a vendor in a game where that's the only practical way to get gear. How do you expect people to buy vendored equipment if they don't even have enough money to buy their skills?

You just do not know how to play the game it seems. Why do you need to buy gear? PQ loot bags and Influence rewards fully equip you for free.
 

By level 3 if you don't like PQ and questing , you run to the RVR warcamp and get the "complete xxx scenario" ( completed with a win or loss) and "Kill 5 ennemy players" ( take about 1-2 min to get it done in the RVR area ,if you know how to use OPEN PARTIES).Queue for the scenario while RvRing. Theses quests are repetable and give very good cash and xp. They have thoses quest in every warcamps , of every races , faction and tiers . The higher tier version of theses quest , also in warcamps, scale and give more cash and xp. Never had any problem affording RR gear and skills.  But you would know that if you read the .pdf manual or try to learn the game for more than a day.

 Your other points have been adressed by previous posters.Pathing got broken with the preview weekend patch. Which is not on the regular beta server , so I am sure fixing it should not be too hard.

PQ are made to be done by 5-10 players. Sure suck for the initial release rush but it has to be possible for when you roll alts and new players join. You can't make them for 50 ppl. At tier 4 , you do have PQ that require a LOT of people. Also each tier have "difficult" rated PQ , which are usually more out of the way of questing area. Theses are seriously hardcore. "Hero" class mob is like 5t o 10 "champions" class in 1. Better get there with 20 players or expect to run you ass back a lot and fail it..

In short. Learn to play.

Originally posted by Kuji-Kiri

I suggest anyone doing PQs for loot not bother. Until level 30+, renown gear will always beat out gear you get from PVE, espeically PQs..

Well what's the reason to do PQ's then?

If PQ's become one big zergfest and the loot being a joke. Then there is less and less innovate fun stuff left in PVE.

Public Quest system is one of the major selling points of this game and appearently Mythic hasn't realised how many people would hit the servers and doing those PQ's at the same time.

I cannot believe they haven't taken this into consideration when they designed the whole thing, that especially around launch and the few months after more then 5 people would participate those PQ's. I mean a lot lot more then 5!

And if the Endbosses of PQ's aren't even scaling and all matched for only 5 PC's then it's a SERIOUS flaw and turning these PQ's in one big joke!

Cheers

RvR

Your complaining that nobody knows what to do in a game that many of them just started playing yesterday?  Okay...

I've been playing for over a month now and many of the stability and pathing issues you have described didn't exist until the preview weekend.  The point of this preview weekend is to stress the servers and see what pops up.  There should be issues coming out right now, so they know what to fix before release.

You mentioned kill stealing.  Whoever hits the mob first gets the credit and loot.  If someone comes along and kills the mob while your fighting it, you still get the credit.  No one can steal your kill.

I will grant you that this weekend seems to have brought out a lot of pathing issues and other problems, and this may turn off people who expect a game a month out from release to be perfect.  But if the game were perfect they would be releasing it now, not a month from now.  The game is still being worked on, and you should have gone into this weekend, with the knowledge that the game wasn't complete yet.

Originally posted by Guillermo197

Originally posted by Kuji-Kiri

I suggest anyone doing PQs for loot not bother. Until level 30+, renown gear will always beat out gear you get from PVE, espeically PQs..

 

Well what's the reason to do PQ's then?

If PQ's become one big zergfest and the loot being a joke. Then there is less and less innovate fun stuff left in PVE.

Public Quest system is one of the major selling points of this game and appearently Mythic hasn't realised how many people would hit the servers and doing those PQ's at the same time.

I cannot believe they haven't taken this into consideration when they designed the whole thing, that especially around launch and the few months after more then 5 people would participate those PQ's. I mean a lot lot more then 5!

And if the Endbosses of PQ's aren't even scaling and all matched for only 5 PC's then it's a SERIOUS flaw and turning these PQ's in one big joke!

Cheers

The loot is not a joke , the influence reward is average but everyone can get it easy. I got epic ( yes yes purple) weapons and rings , in gold loot bags. The weapon was in the 1st Troll country PQ if i remember correctly ( R12 ). A sweet 2hander for my WP. They were much better than my RR stuff.
 

Rated "difficult" PQ ( need about 15-20 player min to not be raped) give pretty amazing loot. I do agree that most armor sets from pve kinda lack res but some have set bonus that are not too shabby. Nothing crazy do , i'll admit. So i usually go for RR gear for armor. But not for weapons and accessories.

Also , being in the loot bags , they are much more rare. Like my SW R34 , got some nice epic bow in a PQ located in chaos waste. Look pretty different and everyone inspect me and ask  where I got that lol. Since they got lazy and just grab the easier to obtains Influence and RR gear. I think it's worth it and I  give as much contribution for the PQ and try to  get that gold bag /greater loot bag/whatever .

 

ALSO this is bothering me:

"Also, I totally agree with your disappointment on some of the WoW cookie-cutter stuff. In particular, I was very disappointed with the combat. It's straight EQ, WoW, pretty-much-every-other fantasy MMORPG click-and-wait styled combat. "

please tell me about this "innovative" combat system you imagine? i dont get you people. your complaining about the combat and all, but dont mention what they could have done to make the combat better? please tell us about this revolutionary combat system?

Mount and Blade?

Originally posted by Blodpls

 

ALSO this is bothering me:

"Also, I totally agree with your disappointment on some of the WoW cookie-cutter stuff. In particular, I was very disappointed with the combat. It's straight EQ, WoW, pretty-much-every-other fantasy MMORPG click-and-wait styled combat. "

please tell me about this "innovative" combat system you imagine? i dont get you people. your complaining about the combat and all, but dont mention what they could have done to make the combat better? please tell us about this revolutionary combat system?

Mount and Blade?

Mount and Blade is incredible yes, however its combat isn't really revolutionary at all except for the mount combat. Lol. However that doesn't go to say it implements the mount combat VERY well, especially for a husband and wife team.

Tested it now and I can say the following about it,

WAR is reasonably polished, not as polished as WoW was on release but not far from it. However it's drastically smaller in size in terms of content. That's not to say that the game won't keep you busy for quite some time ahead. The game is fairly stable and even handles tabbing quite well, although not during loading screens. But yes, you will encounter a few strange bugs, glitches and get momentarily stuck in terrain objects at times.

The classes don't have alot of depth but they're still rather well designed, although much character balancing needs to be done. I didn't find the Warrior Priests to be that bad, however the Burning Wizards pretty much burns the whole place to a crisp if allowed a moment of peace.

The PvP was fun for me, although much more slow paced than WoW. People generally don't die as quick and healing will spoil anyones day. You need to focus your damage on a single player in order to be effective, either that or be a Bright Wizard. I can see the stacking, combination and synergy of certain abilities to become very powerful and I expect to see much of these to be used in higher tier PvP, once guilds and groups start to be more serious about RvR (which is just another lame word for normal PvP, there's really nothing more RvR about WAR than WoW). The open areas seemed pretty dead with few people in them, often being scarcely populated by mobs or none at all. The dwarven starting grounds were mostly just raided by the far more popular orcs 'n goblins, which made much of the place inaccessible to the dwarf players.

- The fact that it takes longer to die is an advantage in large scale PvP, but hurt the small scale PvP engagements. WAR's system wouldn't work in WoW's arena very well, but proves to be alot more entertaining in the battlegrounds.

The public quests are like AoC's special attack system, overhyped and not that effective. Sure, the public quests are entertaining to do at least once because they're fairly cinematic. It's like Assassin's creed, cool once but then it kinda gets old. It also completely fails to create any sense of companionship and co-up, people just do the stuff or happened to stumble upon the quest and then hope that they get lucky with the roll for the rewards.. most often winning nothing and having to do it all over again or grow fed up with it and go somewhere different.

The graphics are adequate, despite not having access to high quality textures (probably due to bandwith limitations). The characters look fairly good, especially the Orcs, goblins and dwarfs and they're all a step up from the graphics of WoW. However the world in WAR can look rather sloppily put together at times and I'd say that WoW makes a better job there instead. It also seems to run quite fine on an above average system and I believe that it will run on low quality settings even on poor machines.

As for the PvE it was rather mweh, didn't come across a single instance but I hear that some are s'posed to be in the game. Mobs are fairly stupid, have slow reaction times and the aggro range is so short that it makes the mobs seem really retarded.

The community on the test servers was fairly dead, very quiet. Too quiet in fact, people only talked when adressed and not even that at times. However, it was damn nice to see people use more roleplay names again instead of the usual "SHaodwdeath" "DEadlyassasin" yatta yatta that you see in other games. Hopefully though the game will become more cheerful on launch.

As a conclusion, WAR can be a fun game and for anyone who likes PvP, is tired of WoW but who wants another fantasy MMO. My only real gripe with the game is how they screwed the warhammer lore and feel of the Orc 'n Goblins by teaming them up with Chaos and the Dark Elves. I'd also liked to have see three factions in this game instead of just two, in order to make it stand out and be a real option to WoW.

Ah well, I think that most people who try it, will enjoy it. This isn't the pile of shit that AoC was, rest assured.

- Sajt

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Originally posted by augustgrace
our complaining that nobody knows what to do in a game that many of them just started playing yesterday?  Okay...

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I've already addressed this earlier in the thread, but I'll address it again. My issue is not with people who don't know what they're doing on the first day, you're absolutely right about that being understandable. My issue is that in a game so focused on RvR, Mythic didn't even take the time to put in tooltips or instructions or little popup help menus explaining what's going on in the scenarios or RvR areas. I played through and past the area for level 8-10 and I still couldn't tell you what its purpose was. Kill or be killed, that was all that mattered, and stand near the flag to cap it, which I worked out based on intuition and past experience with other games. There was no direction, zero, NONE. In a game like EVE, where PvP is a way of life, you PvP because you have to, to defend your base/resources/territory. In a game like WAR, that's far more "theme park"-ish, why are we fighting? At least WoW had quests and descriptions to ease you into the Battlegrounds, and explain their purpose within the lore of the game (sort of). WAR's quests consisted of "kill 5 people" and "collect miscellaneous trade goods hidden within the city".

Maybe you can expect people to "figure it out on their own" but I have no such hopes. If they make it to the first RvR area and aren't being taught the basics, they will zerg eternally until someone tells them otherwise. That's what people do.

Originally posted by Aethios

NO YOU CAN'T HAVE MY ACCOUNT. I only got in for the Preview Weekend, which ends tomorrow. Target is selling the pre-order box for $1. Go buy one and you can play on the 7th.
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Maybe my expectations were too high. I don't know. All I can say is that WAR was too much like WoW, and with all the bugs and crashing and stupid quirky things that just weren't right, I'd rather be playing WoW (which is to say not at all). To give a little background, I played a Chosen and made it to Rank 10, Renown 7 within a few hours. My issues are not with the Chosen class, I liked it very much, but with the game as a whole.

RvR and PvP
RvR is a bit of a mess. Nobody has a clue what they are supposed to be doing. Good luck finding people to group with, everyone (including people who rolled healers) just run into the fray head first and start spraying spells. On the realm I played on, Destruction won every time hands down, but it was still like walking into a meat grinder. The Order players would all bunch up at a bottleneck and toast anyone who came too close. Not that this is a bad thing, but it's far flung from the dynamic, PvE/PvP mixed battlefields I was expecting. I also felt the RvR areas were a bit small, but that's probably because they were in the early game and the zones were focused more on PvE questing. I'm sure they get bigger towards the upper tiers.

I agree with the point about people not using their brains when in RvR. I also take into account the fact that its a new game so most of us are trying to figure things out. That said, this aspect of the game is fairly decent, its fun and you enjoy it in small portions at a time. The point about it being a one sided war is just not true. I played 3 servers and they all had the same dynamic shift in territorial control. At times we're winning, at some we are losing.

Community
The community is not bad so far, but it's very very quiet. I've seen the usual "it's still in beta so your opinion doesn't matter" trolls, people who steal kills, people who get upset because they can't solo PQs or whatever. I've also had random strangers save my life, random strangers answer cryptic questions with detailed answers, random strangers offer to give away loot that's not for their class. Overall I'd say it's pretty balanced, and a little better than you'd expect from any MMO.

Nothing to say about the community. I mostly went on my own exploring and testing, checking to see if I was going to become a paying customer.

PvE and Questing
The PvE element is, to be totally honest, a complete joke IMO. I would frequently have to turn off my auras (Chosen are like reverse Paladins) to avoid aggroing every mob in the area, including non-hostile mobs and even level 1 critters. Even if I did aggro them all, I had no problems soloing 5-6 mobs at a time, as long as they weren't Champions (WAR equivalent of 'Elite'). NPC damage is a joke.

This I find silly at most, ignorant at best, then again it is your opinion. I like the fact that I have  NO downtime while fighting mobs and questing. On the Chosen Aura point you made I have nothing to say because it was annoying for me too. Although it makes some sense, its still annoying. Point is it makes sense, even if it is stupid.

I would often have mobs run away for no reason, even before I had done any damage. At first I thought maybe this was part of the AI, but as I played on it became obvious that even mobs who shouldn't run away (such as Champion mobs) were still tucking tail and running. I can only assume it's a bug.

Yeah, bug. Nothing left to say.

I think people are expecting to be able to level from RvR alone, and I can tell you now that doing so would be painful. It would take easily 3-4 times as long to do it that way. The quests give HUGE amounts of experience, and you simply can't compete with that in RvR. Also, the gear that you can buy once you've reached a certain Renown Rank also requires a PvE Rank, usually higher than the Renown Rank. This means you'll have to do a lot of PvE questing/grinding to get where you need to be.

Leveling from RvR IS a viable option and NOT painful. I leveled my marauder from 7 to 12 on the first tier open world RvR. There are quests that give good experience below level 10 for killing 5 enemy PLAYERS in the RvR zone. Not to mention RR9, which I got in just a few hours, ALL TODAY. On this point you are MISTAKEN. Had to put it on caps because its a big, BIG mistake on your part. What I do have to add is, it is a lot easier if you mix it in with quests and PQ's its just less tedious than all out RvR grindage.

Money
That brings us to the money issue. Even playing as far as I did, saving every bit of money I could, gathering skills and all included, not to mention all the extra grinding I did just to farm money, I was still able to buy only 4 of the 12 pieces of the Dominion set. There were times where I struggled to be able to afford even my basic class spells. Needless to say, prices on gear and spells are too high, or money drops are too low.

Again, mistaken, I played for 7 hours today and I made 6 gold in quests, drops and RvR. You just didn't micromanage well enough or kept all the loot instead of selling it. I don't know what to say on this point. I made a lot of money, especially with the RvR kill player quest that gives 6 silver at completion.

Crashes
As was mentioned several times before, I believe, crashing is a serious issue right now with the game. My own client crashed roughly every 30 mins, and it seemed to get much much worse when I tried to do RvR. Often after a crash I would lose levels or quest credit, and I'd have to do it again. I thought maybe it was my system causing it to crash, but after doing a little research I found hundreds of posts and dozens of comments in game from all kinds of people who were having the same issue. It seems to be totally random, and a problem with the client rather than with our systems.

I had some random crashes, nothing too bad. Is it annoying? Should it happen?.... no. Can I live with it?... I've played a LOT worse. It is also still in testing. Close to release? Maybe so. BUT STILL IN TESTING. Hopefully it gets fixed before then, if not THEN you earned the right to complain.

Collision Detection
In my experience, the collision detection didn't work properly either. Sometimes I would get hung up on small objects (like a brick in the road) and other times my character would teleport on top of objects that he clearly couldn't climb (like trees or lamp posts). Player collision was sketchy at best, and worked roughly half the time. It was also frustrating being a tank and getting blocked in by my own team mates. I think collision detection would have worked better if it didn't apply to people of your own faction.

COMPLETELY AGREE. I hate the collision bugs or otherwise "features". Too many problems with it on my side as well. I can handle it though I found a few workarounds like surveying the area, staying away from BIG groups ( not groups in general, just the really big groups ).

Conclusion
I won't tell you not to play this game, because I do have a sincere respect for what they were trying to do. I think, though, that they shaved it a little too close to the WoW cookie-cutter and focused a little too much on the aesthetic decoration. Maybe the game will be better closer to release, but I doubt it. With about 3 weeks to go, "it's only beta" doesn't really hold water anymore. All we can do is wait and see.

It's only a beta. You know why it holds water? because IT'S STILL A BETA. When it gets released and these issues still come up ( which probabilities lie on that they will arise ) then you can complain. Not flaming or showing aggression of any sort, just stating out the facts.

EDIT: I tried to break it up a bit so it's not such a wall-o'-text. I hope it helped.

EDIT 2: Added a few points that I forgot, and a notice at the top. Please stop sending me PMs to beg for my account!

I've never posted before and I usually only read. I just had to correct some of the points the OP made that were bugging me a little while I read ( bugged me enough to write this reply ).

I'm not a fan or a blinded customer. I'm just a player who played the game and found it enjoyable in small portions. Truth be told, I would play this for around 4 months, not even a year. GREAT GAME, just not one that would hold an individual's attention for more than that.

my 2 cents, enjoy.