Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Originally posted by Arthousesig

I was shouting about this stuff a month ago on the forums, pointing out that the damage to the economy would get worse and worse if it was allowed to continue. Same thing with the epic mobs in Poitain, and many other bugs / exploits / etc.

I was even on forums 3 weeks after launch saying "look, if you don't change gems fast, loads of people will be making OP gemmed gear and it's going to make the entire game hard to balance at 80"

Result:

I got several infractions, even though I never detailed how to do any exploits (and the gem stuff was just feedback, no "exploit" in stacking +damage gems that were legitimately bought/created)

Eventually I was banned for providing a feedback list that got trolled non-stop by fanboys who are now still trolling any critical post and getting away with it because "they are on funcom's side"

 

Let's face it, did I try my best to prevent these exploits getting abused by pleading on forums for them to get fixed?

Yes.

Am I going to enjoy watching this dead game burn to cinders, due to being a mess of exploits and poor game mechanics, just because Funcom couldn't be bothered to fix it and censored the critics?

Definitely.

 

So you got banned and now you want revenge. Just like the WoWRiot guy - are you the same person? So in all the petitions and PM's to devs and community managers on the official forums you didn't get one reply back? Obviously you felt sooo strongly on the issue you did do this right? Or was you one of the "lecturer" poster saying how you would do it is the right way and any other is wrong?

I'm all for constructive feedback, but when you don't get an answer first time, its not the time to start crying.

I first heard about the gem issues about 10 days or go. Since then I have seen responses here:

forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php

and

forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php

What about taking the time to fix the issue - just like many people moaned that every patch broke something when fixing something else. Is it not what you asked for, for them to fix things properly? Or is it a case that you guys don't sub anymore and you just posting for the sake of it?

 

August 13th, 2008, 07:27 PM       #71 Famine vbmenu_register("postmenu_1855553", true); Community Manager       Quote: Originally Posted by wotantheterrible And on top of that, I guarantee, yes you heard it here first, that whatever fix/change/botch/debacle they do with gems, it will be the most ass backwards fix you've ever seen. They'll ignore the problem completely and break a dozen other things in the process. This is why we are taking time to look at the concerns rather than rushing it. We can't have it both ways of course (i.e.: speed change this or look at the system and make the correct changes if needed). The information supplied is not something to explain "this, this and this are changing next week so be ready!" it's explaining that we see the concerns, we are looking at it and hopefully more information will come out of it. In the end, it's up to the developers to make the best change needed for the game. It's not always instant but we are trying to take in feedback when changes occur or concerns arise within the game and within the community. Thanks,

 

Then again there has been more hate posts here then on the actual thread with regards to gem issues, that I might add is open. Remember the money dupe on Daoc? took them 3 weeks to fix but they did, Mythic let me and the guild I was keep the plat. Remember the party hat dupe in RS that went on for one year or so? They made pinks into purple and untradable until they could delete all the traces of then dupped ones. Remember Guild Wars? came out in May, in the Autumn Sorrows Furnace came out as a free update, I farmed so many greens there they dropped  more than regular items, I made several million but nothing happened to my items or money made. Did you see the last patch for Guild Wars with reference to the "Hero's" > www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/193507  Take a look at those that most should of been done over a year ago. Point is, it will get fixed, PvP system is coming and its pretty obvious they want it done right. We have to wait and see what happens with the gems though and actions taken from Funcom.

Oh and I am really pissed off with the gem issue too, as it is a craft im learning, its messed completely up and the sooner its fixed the better. Its one more list to a number of under par issues still remaining.

So you're admitting you've exploited before. Ok Mr. Correspondent guy.

Originally posted by Die_Scream

@Amazing Avery, your post is far more baiting than you usually do. I think you may be as pissed off as the "haters" you respond too.

Don't stoop to baiting and insults Avery, as a GC, you're above that.

Lol no he's not

I have already long ago told Funcom what they needed to do, I got ignored. So since I am not going to ever install AoC again, using 120$ already on the game, then I have no interest to write down where AoC failed and how it can be fixed again.

However if I knew Funcom would listen to my post, I would write it down again, just cos I like the devs tp wake up. But it doesnt take a rocket scientist to know that Funcom developers do not read creative thought through ideas for improvement.

If Funcom just  took the time to listen to its experience player base, then sure AoC would have been in a much better state than it is in right now. We all see that Funcom do not want to tell what is true, they just want to believe in what they want to believe in, it is their game, they know best kind of attitude. What is the point in trying to give some serious help? I already been there done that. Not going to be humiliated again by that company.

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Originally posted by Arthousesig

I was shouting about this stuff a month ago on the forums, pointing out that the damage to the economy would get worse and worse if it was allowed to continue. Same thing with the epic mobs in Poitain, and many other bugs / exploits / etc.

I was even on forums 3 weeks after launch saying "look, if you don't change gems fast, loads of people will be making OP gemmed gear and it's going to make the entire game hard to balance at 80"

Result:

I got several infractions, even though I never detailed how to do any exploits (and the gem stuff was just feedback, no "exploit" in stacking +damage gems that were legitimately bought/created)

Eventually I was banned for providing a feedback list that got trolled non-stop by fanboys who are now still trolling any critical post and getting away with it because "they are on funcom's side"

 

Let's face it, did I try my best to prevent these exploits getting abused by pleading on forums for them to get fixed?

Yes.

Am I going to enjoy watching this dead game burn to cinders, due to being a mess of exploits and poor game mechanics, just because Funcom couldn't be bothered to fix it and censored the critics?

Definitely.

 

So you got banned and now you want revenge. Just like the WoWRiot guy - are you the same person? So in all the petitions and PM's to devs and community managers on the official forums you didn't get one reply back? Obviously you felt sooo strongly on the issue you did do this right? Or was you one of the "lecturer" poster saying how you would do it is the right way and any other is wrong?

I'm all for constructive feedback, but when you don't get an answer first time, its not the time to start crying.

I first heard about the gem issues about 10 days or go. Since then I have seen responses here:

forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php

and

forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php

What about taking the time to fix the issue - just like many people moaned that every patch broke something when fixing something else. Is it not what you asked for, for them to fix things properly? Or is it a case that you guys don't sub anymore and you just posting for the sake of it?

 

August 13th, 2008, 07:27 PM       #71 Famine vbmenu_register("postmenu_1855553", true); Community Manager       Quote: Originally Posted by wotantheterrible And on top of that, I guarantee, yes you heard it here first, that whatever fix/change/botch/debacle they do with gems, it will be the most ass backwards fix you've ever seen. They'll ignore the problem completely and break a dozen other things in the process. This is why we are taking time to look at the concerns rather than rushing it. We can't have it both ways of course (i.e.: speed change this or look at the system and make the correct changes if needed). The information supplied is not something to explain "this, this and this are changing next week so be ready!" it's explaining that we see the concerns, we are looking at it and hopefully more information will come out of it. In the end, it's up to the developers to make the best change needed for the game. It's not always instant but we are trying to take in feedback when changes occur or concerns arise within the game and within the community. Thanks,

 

Then again there has been more hate posts here then on the actual thread with regards to gem issues, that I might add is open. Remember the money dupe on Daoc? took them 3 weeks to fix but they did, Mythic let me and the guild I was keep the plat. Remember the party hat dupe in RS that went on for one year or so? They made pinks into purple and untradable until they could delete all the traces of then dupped ones. Remember Guild Wars? came out in May, in the Autumn Sorrows Furnace came out as a free update, I farmed so many greens there they dropped  more than regular items, I made several million but nothing happened to my items or money made. Did you see the last patch for Guild Wars with reference to the "Hero's" > www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/193507  Take a look at those that most should of been done over a year ago. Point is, it will get fixed, PvP system is coming and its pretty obvious they want it done right. We have to wait and see what happens with the gems though and actions taken from Funcom.

Oh and I am really pissed off with the gem issue too, as it is a craft im learning, its messed completely up and the sooner its fixed the better. Its one more list to a number of under par issues still remaining.

you work for funcom, no one cares what you think. Stop pretending to be a member of the playing public. no one can defend a game like you do without some financial gain for doing so. stop trying to deceive the people. you make me sick.

I would have to say, sadly, that the exploits may well never be addressed. Even if Funcom does take action, the chances are that they will piss off their playerbase even further.

I hit 80 in nearly 2 weeks my first time through, and I remember seeing guilds exploiting th end-game in groups of 2-4 members. I remember the Regulators killing Yahkmir nearly 30 times in a night, and posting the purples in chat. I remember people openly asking how to dupe gems in Region chat. And this was all well over a month ago now.

To remedy this situation, the only thing one could really do (in my mind, anyway) is a total gear wipe. Frankly, I can't think of any player that would even tolerate something so drastic, as innocents and exploiters alike would be punished.

The only other solution I can come up with would be if they invented an entirely new set of itemization into this game (literally, re-releasing hundreds of new items) that absolutely dwarfed all the old, exploit-capable gear, and then tracking that gear.

Either way, there will not be any "quick fix" to this problem; it ran rampant for a long time, and Funcom will need to take some drastic measures to fix this problem.

Originally posted by Arthousesig

The economy is shot, the game is totally off-kilter in PVP and PVE because of exploits and "creative use of game mechanics", it's basically one huge mess that needs to be solved with a total shutdown and naked restart of all servers. The problems are too endemic, AOC is just a hideous, buggy mess with a broken game underneath the thin disguise of good graphics.

Yep. Wipe it all - Coin, Cities, Crafting/Harvesting Skills, Mounts - the works.

Wiping cities makes for an easier server consolidation, too.

Keep your characters at their current levels and keep the flags for completed quests.

I think this the only way many people would re-subscribe.

Personally, what would make me resubscribe is a relevelling of the playing field. (Alongside all the gameplay fixes we all know about).

Money, armor, items.

Keep your level, and crafting levels, that's it.

They need to start people back at the same level, because the cheating has been so rampant, the only people who would want to stay in the game - if they realised the full extent of it - are cheats, or people with no competitive spirit.

If people who worked for everything realised to the full extent what suckers they are, and to what extent Funcom doesn't care, they would leave in a heartbeat. Well, they already are leaving in large numbers.

So, amongst the other things needed to bring this game back, I agree, a reset is clearly required.

You can accept many flaws in an MMO. But feeling that you are being laughed at as a sucker, and a sensation that Funcom is incapable of dealing with it... well, does not encourage you to stay for long.

Well, it seems Funcom has re-written the deffinitive guide on how not to launch an MMORPG. I left after the first month, but it seems things have just gotten worse and worse since then.

They launched an MMO with only enough content for a single player title. However, that wasn't all, they hadn't even finished working on core mechanics, let alone thorough vetting for exploit vulnerabilities.

They've also proven a point I have often made after a pre-mature launch: Once a game is in  a post launch environment, the rate of development slows to a complete crawl. What might have taken an extra three months of pre-launch development may take a year post launch. If a game launches six months to a year too early, forget about it. It's impossible to ever get back ahead of the curve.

Most perplexing is the fact that Funcom's financial filings prove they had plenty of cash reserves to extend development another year if need be.

Gross incompetence and actionable mis-management. Funcom management defrauded their shareholders and threw away a legitimate shot at a huge hit.

I still don't get why?

Thank you for your replies and opinions.

In my own opinion Funcom have (by letting exploits go untouched for so long) brought themself in a position where they do not have very many options available.

They never responded within a reasonable timeframe for a "rollback" (within a few hours).

Their client/server model is obviously marred by some VERY bad design decisions (they seem to be unable to change something simple such as droprate "on the fly" without client updates or serverrestarts)

Making changes to gems/items etc. will NOT remove the unfair advantages that exploiters have gotten from selling duplicated items. (Funding to build guildcities, battlekeeps and even buy mount for whole guilds)

Fixing the known exploits and just leaving the exploiters and their customers alone: This might be an option to some - at least the exploiters and their customers would probably prefer this and it would be easy for funcom to implement. Only problem would be that a lot of players would find this extremely unfair and it would be a very good reason for new potential customers to stay far away.

A total wipe/reset... Not an option because most of the playerbase would ragequit

I hope funcom will show a little creativity here and try to solve 2 issues at once. Some players have been crying out for server merges. IF Funcom manages to fix the current exploits the following would (in my opinion of course) be an acceptable solution:

1. Merge servers such as 1 large pop. PvP server merged with 2 low pop. PvP servers.
2. Create 1 new server for every 3 merged servers.
3. Give all existing players on the 3 original servers the option to transfer "naked" to a new "clean" server of the same type. ("Naked" as in stripped of all items/gold etc. and only given a standard armor, weapon etc. matching their level.)

This would probably cause a lot of grief but at least the players would have a choice: Keep everything and stay in a "polluted" environment - Or start at current level without gained equipment but in a "cleaner" world.

This would also be good for new players as they would not be forced to "sit at a table where everyone knows or suspects that the cards are marked".

Oh well - One can only hope and wait... and wait... and...

They could stage an NPC invasion that crushes and loots everyone, leaving them battered and naked.

Then have a series of World Event quests that people do to obtain a fair amount of gear and resources.

If i were to ever come back, i would start on a server created after these events, or i wouldnt come back at all.

A game that supposedly has pvp at its core and endgame is all about Sieges and massive PvP should not have exploits and pvp imbalances like AoC has.