I read a post the other day that mentioned an interview with Smed.  Apparently the game was revamped  once entirely even before release, and the original game was developed in what appeared to be a very short time.  When asked about quality concerns, this post reported Smed saying that people would play the game even if it was full of bugs and incomplete because it's StarWars. 

I can't find the post that mentioned all of this.  Did he really say that?  Anyone got a link?

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3
I read a post the other day that mentioned an interview with Smed.  Apparently the game was revamped  once entirely even before release, and the original game was developed in what appeared to be a very short time.  When asked about quality concerns, this post reported Smed saying that people would play the game even if it was full of bugs and incomplete because it's StarWars. 
I can't find the post that mentioned all of this.  Did he really say that?  Anyone got a link?

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Are you really that surprised? I sure as hell wouldn't be. Sounds exactly like Smedy tactics.

O.k. I found the post I read, with some links, but I'm still wondering if anyone can quote Smedley saying that people would buy a buggy game just because it's StarWars.

Smed's response to the accusation was that SOE has never released an "incomplete" product.  To Smed, "I don't think incomplete means what you think it means."

Here's the post I was talking about:

"This was from an e-mail from someone to CBS.

"This type of business ethic continues at SOE because of their CEO, John Smedley. Little does the public know, that Star Wars Galaxies was scrapped in 2002 and redeveloped in 14 months from the ground up. In a meeting, they asked how they could get away with releasing such an unfinished product. John Smedley stated that people will buy it because it has a Star Wars name on it - and then laughed as they said they would complete the retail product (which consumers have already paid $49.99 for) with approximately 2 years of subscription revenue."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/20/tech/gamecore/main1146894_page5.shtml

Smed;s response (to the e-mail, not about swg being scrapped) here

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/21/tech/gamecore/main1335511.shtml"
 

Of course he said it...  Why wouldn't he?  They followed EXACTLY the business model he paved in that meeting.  We all paid for 2 years of live Beta and he used the subscription money to change the game into something that emulated WoW.

I'm not at all surprised if this is true.  It's exactly what happened.  We all knew the game was incomplete when we logged on.  No space, no mounts, no vehicles, broken professions...  It should have never gone live like that.

Smedley ran his plan to the end.  Heck, he is STILL doing it right now.  People are paying to play a beta on the SWG servers as we type. 

Damn the man, and the skiff he came in on.

From the post

Smedley told me that focus groups drove the changes and what was best for the game.

Those focus groups started after the decision was made to alter the game, and they originated at LucasArts, not SOE.

I probably said this before three years ago, but them throwing the market researchers under the bus still continues to piss me off. As a (former) market research industry insider, I know for fact that their focus groups were bullshit, moreso than what most people suspected.

They got what they paid for -- they didn't pay much so they got shitty research. From a statistical standpoint they had minimal or no quantitative data at all: you don't get that from focus groups. The best they might've mustered is surveys of applicants and a couple of "show of hands" answers. Worst yet is that the interviews were localized to the bay area of Cali. ONE group out of many nationwide.

The whole thing reaks of least-possible-investment, and they definitely reaped what they sowed. Research is extremely valuable, IF you're willing to spend more than $10k on it...

Originally posted by xPaladin

From the post

Smedley told me that focus groups drove the changes and what was best for the game.

Those focus groups started after the decision was made to alter the game, and they originated at LucasArts, not SOE.

 

I probably said this before three years ago, but them throwing the market researchers under the bus still continues to piss me off. As a (former) market research industry insider, I know for fact that their focus groups were bullshit, moreso than what most people suspected.

They got what they paid for -- they didn't pay much so they got shitty research. From a statistical standpoint they had minimal or no quantitative data at all: you don't get that from focus groups. The best they might've mustered is surveys of applicants and a couple of "show of hands" answers. Worst yet is that the interviews were localized to the bay area of Cali. ONE group out of many nationwide.

The whole thing reaks of least-possible-investment, and they definitely reaped what they sowed. Research is extremely valuable, IF you're willing to spend more than $10k on it...

Well..

Regardless of what they paid.. I was contacted 3 (yes three) times for focus studies on SWG.  Everytime I was told up front that it was an independant group hired by Lucas Arts.. SOE was never even mentioned any time that I was contacted.

The first time somehow they didn't realize I was not local to the area they wanted.  So that was a no go..

The second time I was "to old"

The third time... I had a played an MMO before..

So out of 3 contacts I took part in 0 studies..

They got exactly what they paid for as you say.. but it was apparant to anyone who was contacted they wanted a different demographic.

In fact the third study didn't only want you to have NEVER played an MMO... They preferred that you were heavily into playing console games.

Which is why when I see people hype up how the next Star Wars MMO.. will be awesome since SOE won't be involved... I just shake my head and move along.

Won't matter who makes the game.. Lucas Arts owns the IP and it was pretty apparant that I'm not a customer they want.   At 39 I'm older than they want.. and I don't play consoles.

Originally posted by Antarious

Won't matter who makes the game.. Lucas Arts owns the IP and it was pretty apparant that I'm not a customer they want.   At 39 I'm older than they want.. and I don't play consoles.

This is an excellent point. Everything about Star Wars in the 2000s -- mainly the prequels -- are directly aimed at the kiddos. They're definitely neglecting the geekiness of the older crowds... the ones buying the toys, and the majority of whom bought this game!

Even the re-release special editions were aimed at "introducing Star Wars to a new generation."

Really, they should be marketing to the parents and let them introduce Star Wars to the kiddos.  

There's a story about SOE leaders throwing orphans, kittens and puppies into a bonfire while worshipping Baltor the Unholy under the light of a full moon.

The source is bad, but it still wouldn't surprise me if it was true. We are talking about Sony Online after all......

Originally posted by xPaladin

  This is an excellent point. Everything about Star Wars in the 2000s -- mainly the prequels -- are directly aimed at the kiddos.

Hate to break it to you, but the Star Wars from the 70s and 80s was also aimed at "kiddos.".  It's probably why grownups where so bitter about the prequel movies.  They never realized the grew up and were watching them from an adult perspective.

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Originally posted by Thradar

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Originally posted by xPaladin

This is an excellent point. Everything about Star Wars in the 2000s -- mainly the prequels -- are directly aimed at the kiddos.

---

Hate to break it to you, but the Star Wars from the 70s and 80s was also aimed at "kiddos.". It's probably why grownups where so bitter about the prequel movies. They never realized the grew up and were watching them from an adult perspective.

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I wonder what the real original SWG was like...

We'll probably never know.

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by xPaladin

From the post

Smedley told me that focus groups drove the changes and what was best for the game.

Those focus groups started after the decision was made to alter the game, and they originated at LucasArts, not SOE.

 

I probably said this before three years ago, but them throwing the market researchers under the bus still continues to piss me off. As a (former) market research industry insider, I know for fact that their focus groups were bullshit, moreso than what most people suspected.

They got what they paid for -- they didn't pay much so they got shitty research. From a statistical standpoint they had minimal or no quantitative data at all: you don't get that from focus groups. The best they might've mustered is surveys of applicants and a couple of "show of hands" answers. Worst yet is that the interviews were localized to the bay area of Cali. ONE group out of many nationwide.

The whole thing reaks of least-possible-investment, and they definitely reaped what they sowed. Research is extremely valuable, IF you're willing to spend more than $10k on it...

 

Well..

Regardless of what they paid.. I was contacted 3 (yes three) times for focus studies on SWG.  Everytime I was told up front that it was an independant group hired by Lucas Arts.. SOE was never even mentioned any time that I was contacted.

The first time somehow they didn't realize I was not local to the area they wanted.  So that was a no go..

The second time I was "to old"

The third time... I had a played an MMO before..

So out of 3 contacts I took part in 0 studies..

They got exactly what they paid for as you say.. but it was apparant to anyone who was contacted they wanted a different demographic.

In fact the third study didn't only want you to have NEVER played an MMO... They preferred that you were heavily into playing console games.

Which is why when I see people hype up how the next Star Wars MMO.. will be awesome since SOE won't be involved... I just shake my head and move along.

Won't matter who makes the game.. Lucas Arts owns the IP and it was pretty apparant that I'm not a customer they want.   At 39 I'm older than they want.. and I don't play consoles.

Wow...amazing.  I guess there are young idiots in charge who think if you are older than they are you dont have money or hobbies....quite the opposite infact.

Me and my wife are in our 40's and we pay for several games for ourselves and our two sons.  Guess all the accounts we pay for are not for them.

Ignorance is bliss.

If Smed falls off of a bridge in the middle of the woods does it make a sound?

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

I read a post the other day that mentioned an interview with Smed.  Apparently the game was revamped  once entirely even before release, and the original game was developed in what appeared to be a very short time.  When asked about quality concerns, this post reported Smed saying that people would play the game even if it was full of bugs and incomplete because it's StarWars. 

I can't find the post that mentioned all of this.  Did he really say that?  Anyone got a link?

Might be cinic, but he is right, most people have very low standards and just buy into the hype.
That's what allow big companies to produce shitty games and still selling many copies (AoC latest example)

Originally posted by sookster54

 

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Originally posted by Thradar

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Originally posted by xPaladin

 

This is an excellent point. Everything about Star Wars in the 2000s -- mainly the prequels -- are directly aimed at the kiddos.

---

Hate to break it to you, but the Star Wars from the 70s and 80s was also aimed at "kiddos.". It's probably why grownups where so bitter about the prequel movies. They never realized the grew up and were watching them from an adult perspective.

---

Hate to break it to you, but the SW fanbase is much much larger in the 30-40 year old group than < 30 year olds. Every SW convention or fanfaire I see, has a lot of middle aged people dressed up like Obi or an Imp officer, look for some pics around the internet.

 

Yea, the original movie captured the hearts of the youth when it was released...those ppl are now early 40's.  

I understand trying to capture new markets by attracting the youth of today but i think they might be going about it .....wrong. 

Again, they are ignoring their original fan base for newer markets...what will happen to those ppl a few years down the road?  WIll they be ignored for yet a newer breed of customers?

I have given up on Lucas Arts and any chance they might make a SWG similiar to the Pre-CU.  i am waiting for Crusades by vizualfx.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

I read a post the other day that mentioned an interview with Smed.  Apparently the game was revamped  once entirely even before release, and the original game was developed in what appeared to be a very short time.  When asked about quality concerns, this post reported Smed saying that people would play the game even if it was full of bugs and incomplete because it's StarWars. 

I can't find the post that mentioned all of this.  Did he really say that?  Anyone got a link?

Ya that sounds like something anyone high up in any company would say, because it's true.

Where they went wrong was thinking the people complaining actually Wanted NGE, what they should've realized was the people complaining just wanted to be a jedi, charge them $10 to make 1 brand new character that automatically starts with the jedi profession accessible, I guarantee you if they did that instead of NGE and thinking because it's SWG anyone will play it in any quality/build, the population would've skyrocketed past 500k in a couple months and sony would've made a hell of a lot more money.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

O.k. I found the post I read, with some links, but I'm still wondering if anyone can quote Smedley saying that people would buy a buggy game just because it's StarWars.

Smed's response to the accusation was that SOE has never released an "incomplete" product.  To Smed, "I don't think incomplete means what you think it means."

Here's the post I was talking about:

"This was from an e-mail from someone to CBS.

"This type of business ethic continues at SOE because of their CEO, John Smedley. Little does the public know, that Star Wars Galaxies was scrapped in 2002 and redeveloped in 14 months from the ground up. In a meeting, they asked how they could get away with releasing such an unfinished product. John Smedley stated that people will buy it because it has a Star Wars name on it - and then laughed as they said they would complete the retail product (which consumers have already paid $49.99 for) with approximately 2 years of subscription revenue."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/20/tech/gamecore/main1146894_page5.shtml

Smed;s response (to the e-mail, not about swg being scrapped) here

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/21/tech/gamecore/main1335511.shtml"
 

Nobody can produce an interview quote because what he said was said in a SOE meeting (whether a dev meeting or business meeting).  The email was from someone who was claiming to have either first or second hand knowledge of a meeting.  From the way SOE's games have all launched, it wouldn't surprise me if that was less the Smed playing evil genius than the Smed reaffirming SOE's business plan.

The Smed was blasted to hell and back on every SOE forum after his claim that SOE had never released an unfinished product.  He eventually admitted that SOE had released unfinished products, but that it was never going to happen again.  A short time later, SOE shipped an unfinished EQ2 expansion (RoK), one that is still missing some of the promised features.

Originally posted by bachanam

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

I read a post the other day that mentioned an interview with Smed.  Apparently the game was revamped  once entirely even before release, and the original game was developed in what appeared to be a very short time.  When asked about quality concerns, this post reported Smed saying that people would play the game even if it was full of bugs and incomplete because it's StarWars. 

I can't find the post that mentioned all of this.  Did he really say that?  Anyone got a link?

 

Ya that sounds like something anyone high up in any company would say, because it's true.

Where they went wrong was thinking the people complaining actually Wanted NGE, what they should've realized was the people complaining just wanted to be a jedi, charge them $10 to make 1 brand new character that automatically starts with the jedi profession accessible, I guarantee you if they did that instead of NGE and thinking because it's SWG anyone will play it in any quality/build, the population would've skyrocketed past 500k in a couple months and sony would've made a hell of a lot more money.

I'm not so sure that's totally true, yeah sure I wanted a Jedi but I also wanted to earn it too! All they really had to do was fix the bugs and do some balancing of the profs and all would have been well! Instead, they build the craptastic game, behind their player bases back mind you, that they have now and pushed that on us as the end all be all game!

Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see, imho. 

Smed is a WMD on the loose with the power to destroy game-worlds, dreams, hopes, fun, fantasy, and the inner-child in us all. 

He has learned to beat, cheat, lie, and deny.

I know he is not the only one at fault.  But he has done very little to prove that he's ever been on the side of 'us', the vet's. 

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

When asked about quality concerns, this post reported Smed saying that people would play the game even if it was full of bugs and incomplete because it's StarWars. 

And I would believe he would say such a thing.  Heck I would have said it too. 

It's STAR WARS and what other Sci-Fi MMO [was] out in the market?  None (for the most part).  To play a Star Wars MMO is an honor and those pathetic gamers should worship us for letting them have the privilege.  We are gods, we...  oppsss sorry, I was going on a Smed Ego Trip.

However, should I have said such a thing (which I would have), I would have quickly added afterwards, "But let us no go in that direction or rely on that.  It will bite us on the ass later on."

Originally posted by Mackerni

I wonder what the real original SWG was like...

We'll probably never know.

You mean the unreleased version they were toying with, or the released version they messed up with the NGE?

Originally posted by Thradar

Originally posted by xPaladin

  This is an excellent point. Everything about Star Wars in the 2000s -- mainly the prequels -- are directly aimed at the kiddos.

 

Hate to break it to you, but the Star Wars from the 70s and 80s was also aimed at "kiddos.".  It's probably why grownups where so bitter about the prequel movies.  They never realized the grew up and were watching them from an adult perspective.

 

 I think the orginal movies had a larger appeal then most of us might know. I say that from the point of view my mother took me to see the orginals and she is in her early 60s now. Admitly she is not into games but to me the orginal movies did not feel rushed in its telling of the story. The new ones just did not feel right almsot like they were seeing how fast they could tell it. Again this is my point of view.

 As far as there being a different version I do not know I had no idea the game was out till I saw it in best buy.

Originally posted by ketrine
 

You mean the unreleased version they were toying with, or the released version they messed up with the NGE?

The two years of programming they deleted and replaced with, with the pre-CU that was the original game of SWG. If the pre-CU only took 18 months to make, I wonder what the game would have been like if the ORIGINAL 2-YEAR game was never revamped or destroyed in anyway.

I have a feeling that it would probably have been the best MMOG on the market right now if they had stuck to their guns about the original product. Too bad they didn't.

... oh. And Star Wars? It's not directed towards children or adults. It's directed towards both.

Originally posted by Mackerni

Originally posted by ketrine
 

You mean the unreleased version they were toying with, or the released version they messed up with the NGE?

 

The two years of programming they deleted and replaced with, with the pre-CU that was the original game of SWG. If the pre-CU only took 18 months to make, I wonder what the game would have been like if the ORIGINAL 2-YEAR game was never revamped or destroyed in anyway.

I have a feeling that it would probably have been the best MMOG on the market right now if they had stuck to their guns about the original product. Too bad they didn't.

... oh. And Star Wars? It's not directed towards children or adults. It's directed towards both.

You know, as I read all of this, I get the impression that Smed and his pals kept rewriting the game, so that each time people got to play something that was unfinished and broken as hell.  It seems like the original version of the game was scrapped after maybe a couple years of development, and then something was rushed out unfinished.  Then it seems that work was being done to fix this, but all of that was scrapped and the CU was rushed out unfinished.  Then it seems that all of that was scrapped by the NGE which was probably the most rushed and broken version of the game to date.  Then, to make matters worse, they finally decided to stick with one game, and picked the most broken one of all that has core bugs that can't be fixed 0_o.

When I see all of this, it's very easy to imagine Smed counting on the StarWars name to bring in some customers.  I'm not sure what else he could possibly be counting on...besides misleading marketting.

P.S. thanks Obee for the clarification regarding the links.