Originally posted by eric_w66

Heh, I felt the original system was hideously complicated for no good reason. Tiny stat modifiers? Useless.

Hundreds of materials of various qualities? Stupid overkill. Hasn't anyone here ever heard of "refining"? I should be able to take that low quality ore/leather/whatever, and refine it to make it better... sheesh. That way, I have ONE stack of it in my limited inventory space, instead of 100.

I find it humorous that the original author thought that the 2nd slot is a big negative to crafters. Not so.

It let more people do it, rather than just the people like my good friend who had 6 accounts and borrowed three others to dominate the rare materials on his server and utterly control the weaponsmithing profession.

Yeah, it was so great one guy controlled his server's weaponsmithing... great for the casual player who wanted to play one. Try to sell something? He'd undercut and drive you out of business.

He did pay for his college education and rent with the money he made ebaying the credits, however.

 

Actually the complexity and small twinks in the Original Crafting System is what I fell in love with in the PRE CU Game.  The System Reward Crafters who did their work, searching the Galaxy for the Best Resources to put together a product that other players recognized as a Superior Product.  I was a weaponsmith from day 1 of the game, some of the resources i used I did not find till 2 years into the game or more.  So the Argument that new crafters could not compete was nonsense.  Something close to the best if not better was always popping up, people just had to take the time to find it.  But that was the problem, people were not willing to take the time and thus could not put together useful weapons and thus they cried about how complicated the system was.  It is a Shame such an Original and Rewarding crafting system like PRE CU SWG was destroyed because people wanted the easy road.
 

Originally posted by Wickersham

"it's not great now but we plan to make it better" was the games theme since SWG launched too early.

"it's not great now but we plan to make it better" was the games theme when the CU was announced.

"it's not great now but we plan to make it better" was the games theme when the NGE dropped.

"it's not great now but they plan to make it better" has been the overall theme of this FIVE year old game since day ONE.

Excellent points.   Maybe there was so much lacking in SWG because the developers spent so much effort making their complex, intricate and ultimately meangingless Crafting system.

Why do I say meaningless?  Not because of SWG's failure to attract players but because it's Star Wars.  Show me a Star Wars movie, novel, comic, video game or anything else about the exciting adventures of some shopkeeper selling junk to other people.   

Old school players praise SOEs attempt to make a 'living world' with a functioning crafting economy while ignoring the fact that the game failed utter to capture the essence Star Wars - an intergalatic space opera.

How much do you want to bet Bioware's Star Wars MMORPG will only pay a cursory nod toward trifling, secondary mechanics like Crafting and focus on important elements that SOE ignored, like class balance, combat mechanics and most importantly FUN that is true to the IP. 

Star Wars is about spaceships, blaster fights and daring rescues.   Keep your shopkeeping for the Walmart MMORPG whenever that comes out. 

Originally posted by Alienovrlord 

Why do I say meaningless?  Not because of SWG's failure to attract players but because it's Star Wars.  Show me a Star Wars movie, novel, comic, video game or anything else about the exciting adventures of some shopkeeper selling junk to other people.   

You do recall all those other characters in the movies that played smaller, but still important roles in the story? 

Uncle owen the moisture farmer. 

Jawas are droid/equipment 'resellers'

Watto [anakin skywalkers owner] was a junk dealer

Anakin skywalker starts out as a junk dealer and if I recall he plays a small part in the movies.

R2D2 and C3P0 are just droids and they get more than a fair share of story.

etc etc etc.

I understand what you are getting at, but what you are descibing is a game where everyone is the hero.  There isn't anything wrong with a game that lets people play all of those other colorful foles that make up the majority of the actors/characters. 

SOE failed to capture the Star Wars essence, because the game wasn't finished.  All the mechanics for the galactic civil war were broken or missing along with many other things.   The original Star Wars team did a pretty good job of getting the feeling of living in the Star Wars world.  If the game stayed in close development for another 6-12 months I think people would be talking about the epic success this game was and how other companies are making clones of the game.

I use to be one of those SWG people that always said, "I will only quit SWG when they shut down the servers". Well, I was wrong. After just about 3 1/2 years of playing...going through CU and NGE...I finally said good-bye. It was hard. I love Star Wars and anything Star Wars. Unfortunately, SWG just was not Star Wars. Nothing, not better crafting, not returning to the old pre-CU..nothing, will bring me back to SWG.

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

Originally posted by Wickersham

"it's not great now but we plan to make it better" was the games theme since SWG launched too early.

"it's not great now but we plan to make it better" was the games theme when the CU was announced.

"it's not great now but we plan to make it better" was the games theme when the NGE dropped.

"it's not great now but they plan to make it better" has been the overall theme of this FIVE year old game since day ONE.

 

Excellent points.   Maybe there was so much lacking in SWG because the developers spent so much effort making their complex, intricate and ultimately meangingless Crafting system.

Why do I say meaningless?  Not because of SWG's failure to attract players but because it's Star Wars.  Show me a Star Wars movie, novel, comic, video game or anything else about the exciting adventures of some shopkeeper selling junk to other people.   

Old school players praise SOEs attempt to make a 'living world' with a functioning crafting economy while ignoring the fact that the game failed utter to capture the essence Star Wars - an intergalatic space opera.

How much do you want to bet Bioware's Star Wars MMORPG will only pay a cursory nod toward trifling, secondary mechanics like Crafting and focus on important elements that SOE ignored, like class balance, combat mechanics and most importantly FUN that is true to the IP. 

Star Wars is about spaceships, blaster fights and daring rescues.   Keep your shopkeeping for the Walmart MMORPG whenever that comes out. 

All I can say is, go back to playing your FPS games, that is entire NOT what MMO's are about.  Got to love it when the console crowd tries to relate to a MMO.

Originally posted by jedijef

To be clear, Sony hasn't said any such thing, those are my words, and I am in no way affiliated with them other than paying my $30.00 - $45.00 a month since launch. The new dev team isn't stupid, they know that they're on a sinking ship, or at best, a very small ship catering to a niche audience, but the point is that this hasn't stopped them from trying to work with what they've been given and improve the game.

For that, they are to be commended, not ridiculed. I have as much reason to hate SOE as any of you, perhaps more (given the amount of time and money I have invested in SWG since beta), but the hate in this thread is misdirected, since nearly everyone responsible for the NGE is no longer there.

The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.”

this means thas Smed has been fired?

or we can consider him a "nearly" figure in SOE and SWG-NGE Management?

Sorry, mate dont agree.

BYE

Originally posted by Alienovrlord

Originally posted by Wickersham

"it's not great now but we plan to make it better" was the games theme since SWG launched too early.

"it's not great now but we plan to make it better" was the games theme when the CU was announced.

"it's not great now but we plan to make it better" was the games theme when the NGE dropped.

"it's not great now but they plan to make it better" has been the overall theme of this FIVE year old game since day ONE.

 

Excellent points.   Maybe there was so much lacking in SWG because the developers spent so much effort making their complex, intricate and ultimately meangingless Crafting system.

Why do I say meaningless?  Not because of SWG's failure to attract players but because it's Star Wars.  Show me a Star Wars movie, novel, comic, video game or anything else about the exciting adventures of some shopkeeper selling junk to other people.   

Old school players praise SOEs attempt to make a 'living world' with a functioning crafting economy while ignoring the fact that the game failed utter to capture the essence Star Wars - an intergalatic space opera.

How much do you want to bet Bioware's Star Wars MMORPG will only pay a cursory nod toward trifling, secondary mechanics like Crafting and focus on important elements that SOE ignored, like class balance, combat mechanics and most importantly FUN that is true to the IP. 

Star Wars is about spaceships, blaster fights and daring rescues.   Keep your shopkeeping for the Walmart MMORPG whenever that comes out. 

I'm really sorry to say this but, you sir are not a true MMORPG'er..  you want a 3rd person combat game with other players by the sound of your post. Fair enough thats what you like but don't ever assume that it's what the majority want, SWG subscriptions to this date prove without a doubt that the majority preferred things how they were before the NGE, this included crafters and the economy.

In my personal opinion, no matter what SOE do to SWG now, it will NEVER be as popular as it once was. This saddens me as it was my first ever MMO and i enjoyed it for a good 2-3 years. for me it wasn't the combat changes that killed the game as i became a successful and respected Bounty Hunter that could take out a lvl 90 elder jedi from lvl 82 (wasn't easy and i never used off-side tactics), for me it was the removal of Decay and the consolidation of the crafting systems, they made the game simplistic, i don't care who made the decision to make the NGE the fact is they brought it out and killed the game. If you dispute the fact that they killed the game then perhaps you can show me proof..  my proof is the sheer numbers they lost because of it. i'd estimate at least 75% of subscribers left within 3 months of the NGE going live..  This mass "rats abandoning a sinking ship" effect was, in my opinion, due to the removal of decay and because SOE chose to cater for the whining kids that don't like it or prefer to just go out and PvP rather than have a variation of choices of what they want to be (the RPG element was removed). SOE consolidated the Crafters, for reasons i can't comprehend, thereby removing the need/want for a competative market between traders and future traders, the traders that were left started using factories more often which removed the customised feel of what people bought, Decay was removed, which in my personal opinion, is always a bad thing as it completely negates the reasons of having crafters in a game. What do the high level players that remain do today, they've got everything they want and need so whats left??  PvP and pretty much nothing else..  Why on earth turn a game that was loved and played by possibly millions of people into something that caused them to lose the majority of players? the reason is simple, they wanted to cater for the WoW children who are used to playing WoW and expect all other MMO's to be the same, simple and a bore grind....   Crafters used to make the best items in SWG, now they are nothing compared to looted stuff..

Anyways enough of my rant as i'm sick of it and SOE lost my trust and respect a long time ago and i reccon i aint the only one that feels this way..

Have a good life and good fun grinding in your new WoW.

Originally posted by eric_w66

Heh, I felt the original system was hideously complicated for no good reason. Tiny stat modifiers? Useless.

Hundreds of materials of various qualities? Stupid overkill. Hasn't anyone here ever heard of "refining"? I should be able to take that low quality ore/leather/whatever, and refine it to make it better... sheesh. That way, I have ONE stack of it in my limited inventory space, instead of 100.

I find it humorous that the original author thought that the 2nd slot is a big negative to crafters. Not so.

It let more people do it, rather than just the people like my good friend who had 6 accounts and borrowed three others to dominate the rare materials on his server and utterly control the weaponsmithing profession.

Yeah, it was so great one guy controlled his server's weaponsmithing... great for the casual player who wanted to play one. Try to sell something? He'd undercut and drive you out of business.

He did pay for his college education and rent with the money he made ebaying the credits, however.

Factories weren't so much a problem as the resource control was. See, the real problem with old school crafting was the ability to farm the best resources en masse and control the amount, availability, and thusly cost. The way they spawned I always felt it would've made a lot more sense for harvesters to take up more lots, or otherwise be limited to two of any type (eg 2x flora, 2x mineral) at once. This may have (ideally) given more players a shot at resources, but still wouldn't completely solve the cross server "lot trades" or multi-accounting -- though it would make them much more complicated.

I also always believed placing harvester should've been entirely within the crafter domain, though that would've given them too much power... though it would've encouraged more trade of resources.

However, all that said, I did know (and buy from) a few casual weaponsmiths that, while they never made it "big" as your friend did, they still had their own hardcore following. Additionally, I always found guilds with their own WS the way to go as they were usually the most willing to completely customize your gear.

Crafting in SWG was what had me hooked since launch. The NGE failscapade killed that off, and even with the forthcoming changes, it'll still be broken in a major way.

Pre-CB & NGE, crafting was a major component of the social nature of the game, and was the driver for so much of the player driven content of the game - from player cities to the GCW. But it got taken away and a loot driven economy was dropped into the game in it's place. Now the game is a barren waste-land of farmers and l00tors, with no ingame society, multi-account holders running cities and an economy that would make Zimbabwe look like the EU.

What SOE had before NGE was revolutionary and evolutionary, and all of us who miss it can only mourn it and move on.

Way too litlle, and about 3 years too late.

2)      “Recapturing the magic of the old system”… all their doing is scrambling to fix the überest mistake in the history of online games. Seriously, they need to stop trying, they will never fix it. Even IF they brought back EXACTLY the same game as at launch, bone armor and all, a rare few would come back. They’re already over it, and wouldn’t want to deal with SOE, nor give them their money or time.

11)  PLEASE do not spend anymore company time publicizing or reviewing a dead game! Not only is it dead, but it is an now an embarrassment and learning lesson for all MMOs… don’t give them fuel to keep going. Instead, spend this time investigating what your users really want to know about: Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO. Add it into your lists of games under development, create a forum for it, work hard to influence the development of the game toward the liking of your users. Then this website will actually be a useful resource and voice of the gaming community instead of a promoter of CRAP like [dead]NGE-SWG.

 I apologize if I have offended anyone, this post has just been 3+ yrs in the making now.

To number two, I can only say this:  Correct.  No one wants to go back to the boyfriend who raped them.  And that's EXACTLY how I feel about what SWG did to us.  Short of actually physically violating me, which I believe was in the the next patch, the game did things to the player base I'm fairly sure are prohibited by the Geneva Conventions. 

To number eleven, I can only heartily agree.  It's like hearing stories about an old friend who took a bad turn in life and goot hooked on drugs or something, now turning tricks on the corner.  Let it die.  Please.

This update will not change the over all scope of the mistakes of the past.  SOE has to be taught a lesson.

 I just picked up my ruler from the front desk. Perhaps I should be the one that should learn them.  Who else?

Love that Jestor!

SWG....

It was kinda like trying to eat a desert with the Chef always coming back and taking it away because he thought he could make it better on the next try.

When I couldn't recognize what I ordered anymore, I got up and walked out.

Years later, they've finally noticed that what they've created no longer matches what I've ordered.

How many years will it take for them to notice that I'm no longer sitting at their table?

It's funny to me that everyone thinks SOE had/has control over SWG. They never have and never will. The agreement with Lucas Arts (LA) gives LA a very large amount of control in the direction of the game.  Back when the NGE was made it was made for one reason: Market Share.  The executives at LA did not consider SWG's markets share to be big enough.  They thought if they made the game more like another more successful MMO (Wow at the time had a very large Market Share) that SWG would be more successful. They figured they would loose some subscribers initially, but that the changes would make thier product mroe successful in the long run.

SOE has it's faults don't get me wrong, but the NGE came from LA. You did notice that Raph Kostner stepped down at the same time of the NGE.  The class he played was a Beastmaster- BioEngineer, until they put Beastmaster back in it was no where to be seen.

I too look forward to the MMO that Bioware is working on... I hope they take the better things developed in MMOs and put them to use.