It's all getting a little surreal.

People are being banned left right and centre for exploiting, it would appear, but funcom refuses to explain what constitutes an exploit. For example, jumping onto a wall and shooting from there is a bannable exploit - but you will find no literature explaining this.

A thread trying to clarify matters received the following response:

Famine Community Manager	Greetings, Exploit discussion is something that will not be discussed here. This is because exploits are not something to encourage more to do. That does not mean the above are exploits or not. It does however mean that discussing exploits or trying to find out what is a exploit on an open thread is prohibited. Thank you,
	__________________ Glen 'Famine' Swan US Community Manager

LOL!

Glen "Famine" Swan. Do you really think you will be the Gaute nr 2? This must be the stupidest post ever by a community manager. Its WORSE than 1984. I mean in your game it is not even allowed to ask if something is allowed or not!!!!

AVERY HELP US EXPLAIN THIS!

Jumping up on a rock, or a roof was one of the "features" wasn't it?

I could have swore I saw something about how rangers could "take the high ground" in one of the pre release propaganda ads.

They really need to setup a FAQ with at least a basic outline of what is and what isn't ok to do.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.....when Funcom is scamming people's credit cards, the stock is dropping, and they don't look up to their promises, ok, how do you answer that question?

I recall watching a Funcom intro video showing a Ranger doing something to that effect.

Funcom's MO over the years has always been this way. No logic or reason is needed to ban someone if you in fc's way. Click the second link in my sig for a funny recount of how fc banned people for being too good at global pvp.

Not to defend FCOM but what he is asking is usual in any MMO. The reason? Because once an exploit is posted everyone can do it. You guys know this, there is nothing wrong with this. Yeah, kinda bs that how do you know if your exploiting,  there really is no answer there other then if it gives you an obvious advantage it probably is exploiting.

No real answer to this issue other then the devs fixing the problem. Just saying every MMO does this, so while I am with you guys on many things you have posted, this one is a bit of a reach.

I clicked on this thread just because the title was so cool.

But reading Famines quote.......   Very perplexing. Its difficult to combat circular logic like that, except to just say he's freakin' crazy.

Originally posted by chaintm

Not to defend FCOM but what he is asking is usual in any MMO. The reason? Because once an exploit is posted everyone can do it. You guys know this, there is nothing wrong with this. Yeah, kinda bs that how do you know if your exploiting,  there really is no answer there other then if it gives you an obvious advantage it probably is exploiting.

No real answer to this issue other then the devs fixing the problem. Just saying every MMO does this, so while I am with you guys on many things you have posted, this one is a bit of a reach.

 

REAL exploits give unforseen advantages and are typicaly bugs, though not always. In this case there is nothing to fix. In this game you can climb up onto stuff and shoot down, this is how the game was made.

Originally posted by spookytooth

I clicked on this thread just because the title was so cool.

But reading Famines quote.......   Very perplexing. Its difficult to combat circular logic like that, except to just say he's freakin' crazy.

mhm definately lol

funny thing about Funcom, is that an exploit to them, is commonplace in other MMOs

Grinding low-level mobs for cash? Exploit.

Kiting? Exploit. (mob-kiting from what I've heard, I dont play the game so i dont know)

and other things of the sort, no wonder they cant keep people, if most are from WoW, they are used to doing this stuff, and them gettin banned left and right just makes them go back.

and yeah, wonder where funcom's wonder-boy to their batman, Avery, is.

Originally posted by spookytooth

REAL exploits give unforseen advantages and are typicaly bugs, though not always. In this case there is nothing to fix. In this game you can climb up onto stuff and shoot down, this is how the game was made.

Aye I can understand that, it really is a messed up game from what I hear, but still I get the reason for not talking about in offical chat about possible exploits. In the end you can never win as a player vs a company that owns the game in that respect, but  all MMO's do this and I understand fully why.

Thou in your excample, sure how in the heck would you know that is an exploit? To be honest no clue and that would go along with the bad design and bad managment of the game.

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Originally posted by chaintm

 
Aye I can understand that, it really is a messed up game from what I hear, but still I get the reason for not talking about in offical chat about possible exploits. In the end you can never win as a player vs a company that owns the game in that respect, but  all MMO's do this and I understand fully why.

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How and why do you assume that players would realize they were exploiting otherwise? The bad apples will be the first to know, always, regardless of whether or not you let the community know.

The only thing their current approach is going to do is side-swipe legitimate players who had no idea.

Originally posted by Gazenthia

 

 

How and why do you assume that players would realize they were exploiting otherwise? The bad apples will be the first to know, always, regardless of whether or not you let the community know.

The only thing their current approach is going to do is side-swipe legitimate players who had no idea.

 

oh I totally 100% agree, but alas I guess in their particular case letting people talk about exploits might be their only way to easy the issue. (an exception to the usual MMO rule?) I mean there seems to be so many (again not in the game myself) just from what is posted here , that I don't know how they can deal with so many issues like this other then just saying "ok, these are exploits" and say now you know so you better not?

No clue to a true solution here, again from the sounds of it, this game has allot of problems and if this is the case I am at a lost for words.  I was just saying in your standard MMO , WoW, LOTRO, DAOC etc, if you were to say something like this is a forum somewhere you would get banned or warned. See what I mean? I agree with you again 100%, but what is really the answer? Is there one?

Originally posted by chaintm

Not to defend FCOM but what he is asking is usual in any MMO. The reason? Because once an exploit is posted everyone can do it. You guys know this, there is nothing wrong with this. Yeah, kinda bs that how do you know if your exploiting,  there really is no answer there other then if it gives you an obvious advantage it probably is exploiting.

No real answer to this issue other then the devs fixing the problem. Just saying every MMO does this, so while I am with you guys on many things you have posted, this one is a bit of a reach.

 

Ya but what good does banning people for one day gonna do any good? The company should fix the bugs or exploits and not ban people for it. Some of the so call "exploits" by them are down right rediclious.

Example: Jump on "things" to lose aggro, some bugs in instance raid...and on and on.

Is not the gamers thought if the game is unfinished and full of bugs.

Oh, and to OP's post, ya thats what they do best. They sugar coat everything and hide the truth instead of fixing the problem. That also one of the reason why there are so many Failcom hate out there.

oh see, now you've gone and asked a tuff question. Are you a journalist or something? The best answer I can give, not to sound too philisophical here, is that Funcom simply makes peace with the game they made. Their game allows certain things and encourages a particular behavior, they should just let it ride and let the players play the game. Loosen up Funcom, its just a game.

But the answer I really wanted to give is that the best solution is for the players to cancel and the Funcom people to start padding their resumés

My opinion is that the game allows it (talking jumping up onto stuff,), it's supposed to be PvP, let the people play and the players deal with it. If one can get somewhere, so can another. I'll bet if they hadn't started this idiotic policy in the first place, you wouldn't have seen many posts about it I being an exploit. PvPer's would, but would have been met with L2P n00B.

Why wouldn't a dev give enough of a tiny shit to not take 5 minutes of his day and make a sticky post saying "If you are standing somewhere that you can do dmg and the mob cannot, bug it, otherwise, have at it". Or, "disabling space bar to fix a known exploit".

It is absolutely ridiculous and even vindictive of FC to ban people for doing what you do in every other MMO. It honestly blows my mind they still couldn't care enough about the players to tell them the rules of the game. No, they with hold that (and all) info while banning people for breaking the rules the players are asking to know. The hell is wrong with them?

This bull crap with the players arguing things like "Well, if he dropped onto the roof from something higher, that not an exploit, but if there isn't a ladder to the first object.." Just nuts there are still people seeing good in the way this company has handled this product's release.

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Originally posted by chaintm
Not to defend FCOM but what he is asking is usual in any MMO. The reason? Because once an exploit is posted everyone can do it.

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Most GM teams will at least discuss a bug or an exploit without describing how to do it. There has to be some kind of discussion and clarification as to why it's against the rules, and what exactly is not allowed. Even just saying "jumping on the roof is a bannable offense" would be a huge step in the right direction, and doesn't give any indication of how to get on a roof or what to do once you get up there.

Bah, AoC would be better off having someone talk simple:
I.e -
Jumping to get to higher ground which is not accessible via normal walking/sprinting is considered an exploit.

And visual examples of an exploit.

All the stuff they said before release should be considered defunct.

Originally posted by Drewg 

All the stuff they said before release should be considered defunct.

Had to quote this, it is right on many levels.

This company has to be trying to put itself into bankruptcy. There really could be no other explanation for why they continue to screw their player base at every turn.

Expect a buyout or shutdown to happen by the middle of '09.

Avery, where are you? And what happened to Dom?