Originally posted by winter 

Replies are in Green.  All of my info is based off of playing UO during the T2A era since this seems to be where DF is getting most of their ideas.

I doubt very much that there are 750,000 players that like to be griefed and ganked in a full loot MMO.

Griefing and Ganking should not be as big of a problem as you expect, especially if they are copying UO as much as they seem to be.  A newly created character could stand toe to toe with a veteran.  It came down to use of tactics, something that is lost on today's average MMO player.  If you were a brand new player and this was your first character you could AT LEAST run away from the fight.

Definenetly not casual players which will be the ones getting ganked from the hardcore players.

Again, you know nothing about this type of game.  This is not the normal level based type of MMO that has dominated the genre since EQ.

Also I doubt very much WoW, AoC, and WAR players will enjoy the full loot aspect.

Ya, except there's no epic gear.  Everything is able to be lost, so things do not have a lot of value (again, saying this based on UO).  In UO you could afford to fully reequip your character from less than an hour of adventuring with the best stuff in the game.  I'm not talking about grinding money.  You just played the game... you know.... had fun with friends... and at the end of the night you could have made enough to buy a weeks worth of GM crafted gear.

In DF for someone to win someone has to lose, generally those with the best skills and most play time will tend to dominate and those that can't put in the hours or aren't as good will get tired of being the constant underdog and go to another game.

Um... I think you have it reversed.  This type of game design caters more to the casual gamer then any of the so called "casual friendly" games.  The beauty of this type of design is that you don't have to spend hours and hours or months and months grinding, getting gear, gaining levels, gaining crafting.  You know, all the usual time sinks developers put in instead of gameplay.

In a game like DF (or UO) you could play for only a few hours a week and still be able to adventure with your friends that play 10 hours a day, and not feel like you're leeching.  Your own reflexes and ability to think about the battle allowed you to be victorious, even if you've only played 40 hours and you're up against someone that has played 300.

In this type of game, time played does not equal instant win.  Unlike every level based game out there.

I don't know anyone that says gee I'd like a game were I can let others kill me and loot me again and again for thier amusement!

And that's why the PvP system has accountability built into it, again, unlike every other current main stream MMO game.  Also, I have no sympathy for this type of comment, if you're dumb enough to keep going back to the same place that you've already died a bunch of times, that's your own fault.  Maybe you shouldn't keep going back there?

  I hope DF does come out because there should be a MMO out for every playstyle even it is for the griefers/gankers. I just don't think there are that many that live for that type of game. (or at least not for that type of game where they are the ones getting griefed and ganked.)

WoW is already there for the griefers/gankers.  DF would be a game for real PvPers.

Ok.  Before you reply, I am not a DF fanboy, but I can't stand when someone who knows absolutely nothing about this type of game design decides to put their foot in their mouth.

I personally don't think DF will ever see the light of day, and if it does, it will not be nearly as complete as the "developers" would lead us to believe.

Originally posted by Polarization

Originally posted by Xxeon

no clue why they kept razorwax running until 2006 : /.

 

It might have had something to do with the auditor for Razorwax noting illegal loans to shareholder, the general manager, board member or other twice as well as other auditing irregularities.

And/or something to do with Razorwax’s publicly stated business being bingo/ online gambling /sweep stakes.

And/or something to do with Jade El Mehdawi becoming a 50% shareholder in Razorwax.

And/or something to do with some of the original owners of Razorwax and developers of Darkfall being involved in starting a new company called Aventurine and leaving Norway and their original investors with nothing.

And/or Razorwax never producing or achieving anything as a company except for attracting investment, debts, numerous changes of the board of directors and then bankruptcy in 2006.

So much ado about nothing.
Razorwax is still alive on paper alone. I'm guessing for tax purposes. I mean they aren't exaclty rolling in a lot of cash. 100.000 NOK is about 19.000 USD.

I'm not seeing the big issue here.

A company fail to get more money out of their venture investors, so they find cash somewhere else. They keep the old company company for taxdeduction reasons and move on. Not a big mystery really.

I see a lot of people here obviously never played UO.. Ganking was a serious problem and no a freshly made character could not go toe to toe with a vet. The vet would have atleast GM Armor and Weapon along with a finished build.

If you were mining if Brit there was almost always someone right at the end of the protection line waiting to gank a miner. How about Moonglow? You couldnt leave that place without someone ( more than one most of the time ) trying to gank you.

The skill in UO consisted of who had the highest bandaging skill and the better weapon. Someone with GM Armor and Weapon would lose most of the time to someon with GM Armor and Power / Vanq weapon.. Lets be serious here... If you were not using atleast a power weapon in PvP then you were an easy kill for anyone worth their salt.

Originally posted by SlyLoK

I see a lot of people here obviously never played UO.. Ganking was a serious problem and no a freshly made character could not go toe to toe with a vet. The vet would have atleast GM Armor and Weapon along with a finished build.

If you were mining if Brit there was almost always someone right at the end of the protection line waiting to gank a miner. How about Moonglow? You couldnt leave that place without someone ( more than one most of the time ) trying to gank you.

The skill in UO consisted of who had the highest bandaging skill and the better weapon. Someone with GM Armor and Weapon would lose most of the time to someon with GM Armor and Power / Vanq weapon.. Lets be serious here... If you were not using atleast a power weapon in PvP then you were an easy kill for anyone worth their salt.

Ganking was a minor problem, yes. But nothing says that Aventurine will copy & paste straight of Ultima Online. During beta we have our change to affect the alligment system, hopefully it will be a good balance.

Originally posted by SlyLoK

I see a lot of people here obviously never played UO.. Ganking was a serious problem and no a freshly made character could not go toe to toe with a vet. The vet would have atleast GM Armor and Weapon along with a finished build.

If you were mining if Brit there was almost always someone right at the end of the protection line waiting to gank a miner. How about Moonglow? You couldnt leave that place without someone ( more than one most of the time ) trying to gank you.

The skill in UO consisted of who had the highest bandaging skill and the better weapon. Someone with GM Armor and Weapon would lose most of the time to someon with GM Armor and Power / Vanq weapon.. Lets be serious here... If you were not using atleast a power weapon in PvP then you were an easy kill for anyone worth their salt.

I haven't played DF nor UO but from what I gather same race ganking will probably happen but at a cost. If you gank too much your alignment will be so low (or whatever) that you will not be able to enter cities, do trade and quest etc. Some people will thrive playing like this but my opinion is that most people will focus their PvP efforts on more "legal" targets like other races. And attacking another race will take some effort due to longer supportlines and the fact that everyone there can and will attack you without an alingment hit.

On another note I also think the world will develop much as EvE has done. The best resources will be held and protected by the lagest guilds and the lesser guilds have to ally or pay for access. When a guild have grown too big the lesser guilds will gather to take down the top dog. Politics generated by players will be more important than anything the devs can throw at the players. As RL The little (solo) guy have to try his best with whatever is left

One last thing. I think DF can reach the 200k sub mark if they deliver what they promise.

Originally posted by Dameonk

Originally posted by winter 

Replies are in Green.  All of my info is based off of playing UO during the T2A era since this seems to be where DF is getting most of their ideas.

I doubt very much that there are 750,000 players that like to be griefed and ganked in a full loot MMO.

Griefing and Ganking should not be as big of a problem as you expect, especially if they are copying UO as much as they seem to be.  A newly created character could stand toe to toe with a veteran.  It came down to use of tactics, something that is lost on today's average MMO player.  If you were a brand new player and this was your first character you could AT LEAST run away from the fight.

Definenetly not casual players which will be the ones getting ganked from the hardcore players.

Again, you know nothing about this type of game.  This is not the normal level based type of MMO that has dominated the genre since EQ.

Also I doubt very much WoW, AoC, and WAR players will enjoy the full loot aspect.

Ya, except there's no epic gear.  Everything is able to be lost, so things do not have a lot of value (again, saying this based on UO).  In UO you could afford to fully reequip your character from less than an hour of adventuring with the best stuff in the game.  I'm not talking about grinding money.  You just played the game... you know.... had fun with friends... and at the end of the night you could have made enough to buy a weeks worth of GM crafted gear.

In DF for someone to win someone has to lose, generally those with the best skills and most play time will tend to dominate and those that can't put in the hours or aren't as good will get tired of being the constant underdog and go to another game.

Um... I think you have it reversed.  This type of game design caters more to the casual gamer then any of the so called "casual friendly" games.  The beauty of this type of design is that you don't have to spend hours and hours or months and months grinding, getting gear, gaining levels, gaining crafting.  You know, all the usual time sinks developers put in instead of gameplay.

In a game like DF (or UO) you could play for only a few hours a week and still be able to adventure with your friends that play 10 hours a day, and not feel like you're leeching.  Your own reflexes and ability to think about the battle allowed you to be victorious, even if you've only played 40 hours and you're up against someone that has played 300.

In this type of game, time played does not equal instant win.  Unlike every level based game out there.

I don't know anyone that says gee I'd like a game were I can let others kill me and loot me again and again for thier amusement!

And that's why the PvP system has accountability built into it, again, unlike every other current main stream MMO game.  Also, I have no sympathy for this type of comment, if you're dumb enough to keep going back to the same place that you've already died a bunch of times, that's your own fault.  Maybe you shouldn't keep going back there?

  I hope DF does come out because there should be a MMO out for every playstyle even it is for the griefers/gankers. I just don't think there are that many that live for that type of game. (or at least not for that type of game where they are the ones getting griefed and ganked.)

WoW is already there for the griefers/gankers.  DF would be a game for real PvPers.

 

Ok.  Before you reply, I am not a DF fanboy, but I can't stand when someone who knows absolutely nothing about this type of game design decides to put their foot in their mouth.

I personally don't think DF will ever see the light of day, and if it does, it will not be nearly as complete as the "developers" would lead us to believe.

and you would know this how?
 

Originally posted by Xxeon

Originally posted by Dameonk

Originally posted by winter 

Replies are in Green.  All of my info is based off of playing UO during the T2A era since this seems to be where DF is getting most of their ideas.

I doubt very much that there are 750,000 players that like to be griefed and ganked in a full loot MMO.

Griefing and Ganking should not be as big of a problem as you expect, especially if they are copying UO as much as they seem to be.  A newly created character could stand toe to toe with a veteran.  It came down to use of tactics, something that is lost on today's average MMO player.  If you were a brand new player and this was your first character you could AT LEAST run away from the fight.

Definenetly not casual players which will be the ones getting ganked from the hardcore players.

Again, you know nothing about this type of game.  This is not the normal level based type of MMO that has dominated the genre since EQ.

Also I doubt very much WoW, AoC, and WAR players will enjoy the full loot aspect.

Ya, except there's no epic gear.  Everything is able to be lost, so things do not have a lot of value (again, saying this based on UO).  In UO you could afford to fully reequip your character from less than an hour of adventuring with the best stuff in the game.  I'm not talking about grinding money.  You just played the game... you know.... had fun with friends... and at the end of the night you could have made enough to buy a weeks worth of GM crafted gear.

In DF for someone to win someone has to lose, generally those with the best skills and most play time will tend to dominate and those that can't put in the hours or aren't as good will get tired of being the constant underdog and go to another game.

Um... I think you have it reversed.  This type of game design caters more to the casual gamer then any of the so called "casual friendly" games.  The beauty of this type of design is that you don't have to spend hours and hours or months and months grinding, getting gear, gaining levels, gaining crafting.  You know, all the usual time sinks developers put in instead of gameplay.

In a game like DF (or UO) you could play for only a few hours a week and still be able to adventure with your friends that play 10 hours a day, and not feel like you're leeching.  Your own reflexes and ability to think about the battle allowed you to be victorious, even if you've only played 40 hours and you're up against someone that has played 300.

In this type of game, time played does not equal instant win.  Unlike every level based game out there.

I don't know anyone that says gee I'd like a game were I can let others kill me and loot me again and again for thier amusement!

And that's why the PvP system has accountability built into it, again, unlike every other current main stream MMO game.  Also, I have no sympathy for this type of comment, if you're dumb enough to keep going back to the same place that you've already died a bunch of times, that's your own fault.  Maybe you shouldn't keep going back there?

  I hope DF does come out because there should be a MMO out for every playstyle even it is for the griefers/gankers. I just don't think there are that many that live for that type of game. (or at least not for that type of game where they are the ones getting griefed and ganked.)

WoW is already there for the griefers/gankers.  DF would be a game for real PvPers.

 

Ok.  Before you reply, I am not a DF fanboy, but I can't stand when someone who knows absolutely nothing about this type of game design decides to put their foot in their mouth.

I personally don't think DF will ever see the light of day, and if it does, it will not be nearly as complete as the "developers" would lead us to believe.

and you would know this how?
 

Nothing he says is new information, its all supported by dev quotes and interviews with Warcry, journals, ect ect, for those who care enough to look. The devs have said over and over again UO is a huge influence. Even the latest person who went to the studio, a UO veteran, said he could see traces of UO all over the place. So THAT'S how he knows it.

Originally posted by Xxeon

Originally posted by Dameonk

Originally posted by winter 

Replies are in Green.  All of my info is based off of playing UO during the T2A era since this seems to be where DF is getting most of their ideas.

I doubt very much that there are 750,000 players that like to be griefed and ganked in a full loot MMO.

Griefing and Ganking should not be as big of a problem as you expect, especially if they are copying UO as much as they seem to be.  A newly created character could stand toe to toe with a veteran.  It came down to use of tactics, something that is lost on today's average MMO player.  If you were a brand new player and this was your first character you could AT LEAST run away from the fight.

Definenetly not casual players which will be the ones getting ganked from the hardcore players.

Again, you know nothing about this type of game.  This is not the normal level based type of MMO that has dominated the genre since EQ.

Also I doubt very much WoW, AoC, and WAR players will enjoy the full loot aspect.

Ya, except there's no epic gear.  Everything is able to be lost, so things do not have a lot of value (again, saying this based on UO).  In UO you could afford to fully reequip your character from less than an hour of adventuring with the best stuff in the game.  I'm not talking about grinding money.  You just played the game... you know.... had fun with friends... and at the end of the night you could have made enough to buy a weeks worth of GM crafted gear.

In DF for someone to win someone has to lose, generally those with the best skills and most play time will tend to dominate and those that can't put in the hours or aren't as good will get tired of being the constant underdog and go to another game.

Um... I think you have it reversed.  This type of game design caters more to the casual gamer then any of the so called "casual friendly" games.  The beauty of this type of design is that you don't have to spend hours and hours or months and months grinding, getting gear, gaining levels, gaining crafting.  You know, all the usual time sinks developers put in instead of gameplay.

In a game like DF (or UO) you could play for only a few hours a week and still be able to adventure with your friends that play 10 hours a day, and not feel like you're leeching.  Your own reflexes and ability to think about the battle allowed you to be victorious, even if you've only played 40 hours and you're up against someone that has played 300.

In this type of game, time played does not equal instant win.  Unlike every level based game out there.

I don't know anyone that says gee I'd like a game were I can let others kill me and loot me again and again for thier amusement!

And that's why the PvP system has accountability built into it, again, unlike every other current main stream MMO game.  Also, I have no sympathy for this type of comment, if you're dumb enough to keep going back to the same place that you've already died a bunch of times, that's your own fault.  Maybe you shouldn't keep going back there?

  I hope DF does come out because there should be a MMO out for every playstyle even it is for the griefers/gankers. I just don't think there are that many that live for that type of game. (or at least not for that type of game where they are the ones getting griefed and ganked.)

WoW is already there for the griefers/gankers.  DF would be a game for real PvPers.

 

Ok.  Before you reply, I am not a DF fanboy, but I can't stand when someone who knows absolutely nothing about this type of game design decides to put their foot in their mouth.

I personally don't think DF will ever see the light of day, and if it does, it will not be nearly as complete as the "developers" would lead us to believe.

and you would know this how?
 

I played UO from beginning to.. well.. the end, nevermind the fact its still going cause it ended a long time ago.

I agree with the guy replying in green, if you take the fact UO was skill based, maxed your health at 100 (100 strength) and anybody could wear any armor and use any weapon (even if their fighting skill for that weapon was low and they missed a lot) and if you take pre tram/fel and really look at it, the amount of pvp gameplay that was enhanced by just those factors alone, throwing in commercial money-making players with their 'businesses' of paying miners and guards etc etc, and the random hunting deer in the woods with a pk stalking you in the shadows, made the entire game a complete masterpiece.

It sounds like some of these people are so focused on how levels, health, and level-based equipment and damage, that they don't seem to understand how level a playing field is and how the non-pvp and pvp players alike accept it for what it is and choose to play or quit *and i didnt see any of them quitting, whether getting ganked or trying to gank and failing* when you are talking about 100% skill-based systems.

What killed UO was tram/fel, giving carebears their own highly populated version of the world in a fully safe 'no pvp' environment, and forcing the pvpers to camp the entry points into the fel half of the world, with fel being dead, no leaves on the trees, no Players anywhere ever besides other pks (less than 2% of the population if i think about it from my own eyes as fact) not to mention they didnt increase their subscriptions with tram/fel, they Lost some of their subscriptions with tram/fel, and the expansions just got worse and worse so it didnt really give them a content-based reason to come back

Skill-based games with level playing fields of PVP, whether set PVP, guild PVP, faction PVP, or just PK's and the general ganking mindset, are one of a kind and dont attract the pvp element any more than they attract the npc craft grind element, especially when theres plenty of skill-based npc fun to be had, or just skill-based non-pvp fun to be had.

If this game is what it says it is, and they somehow manage to up the engine (im guessing for the 4th time? or atleast 3rd time) to meet the newer graphic trends (even weaker ones like WoW) then this game will be one of a kind and a shining 'in your face with popularity' jewel.

EDIT::: UO's full looting, and no "tier 4" armor design or "legendary" weapon design, made full player looting a complaint of the past shortly after you got ganked for the first time, it gave crafters a market for armors and weapons to players, and it also got people to either recall directly to their destination and hope the other mob campers would defend them if a pk showed up in the dungeon or camping spot, and it got the non-fighting skills to stay in town and on the roads where they belong

yea they just have to release with what they say is done its suppose to be feature complete SO i guess we will see O BTW i found out the df devs have over 1 TB of raw gameplay footage

Originally posted by Xxeon

yea they just have to release with what they say is done its suppose to be feature complete SO i guess we will see O BTW i found out the df devs have over 1 TB of raw gameplay footage

Where did you hear that? You seem to come up with random facts quite a bit...

irc by a mod i dont know if its true but he just said that brannoc said theres over 1 TB of it.

*quote*

<@Lieal> Brannoc has said there is over a TB of raw footage.

LOL.

Sure. I doubt they even know what a terabyte is or else they wouldnt have said such a ridiculous thing.

LOL ok you think that you know easy it is to get a a Tb of raw footage.. 1 episode of anime can be 30 gigs easy Raw. go turn on fraps for 30 minutes on 1 game i bet it will max your drive pretty fast

 it would take 2 500 gig drives to get close enough. im pretty sure there not going to sue all the footage tho

but it depends of you go by dec or binary lol

witch is 1000 gigs or 1024 gigs : /

Using my knowledge based on futurology (hehehe) I think they will sell around 50,000 copies in the first months.  Then the number will drop or raise depending how good the game is and how good they keep it going.

They may reach a number like EvE has now but it will take some time (as it took for EvE).

The success or fail of WAR, the expansion of WoW (whatever it's called), Aion and the rest of the incoming games will hurt or help DF's numbers.  For example, imo, AoC ended up helping DF more than hurting it.

DF is a niche game but if WAR, for example, is a success, some people that could had played DF will be playing WAR until they get burned of it.  The same for the rest of games.

But I do think they can sell 50k copies in the first 6 months even if the other incoming games are a succeed.

Originally posted by Keeper2000

Using my knowledge based on futurology (hehehe) I think they will sell around 50,000 copies in the first months.  Then the number will drop or raise depending how good the game is and how good they keep it going.

They may reach a number like EvE has now but it will take some time (as it took for EvE).

The success or fail of WAR, the expansion of WoW (whatever it's called), Aion and the rest of the incoming games will hurt or help DF's numbers.  For example, imo, AoC ended up helping DF more than hurting it.

DF is a niche game but if WAR, for example, is a success, some people that could had played DF will be playing WAR until they get burned of it.  The same for the rest of games.

But I do think they can sell 50k copies in the first 6 months even if the other incoming games are a succeed.

 

WAR will suck
WoW...WOTLK or populary called "Lion King"
AOC sux big time

 terabyte = 1,048,576 megabytes

so Brannoc  is saying they have 1 million MB's of video footage?

{ Mod Edit }

Originally posted by erawropav

 terabyte = 1,048,576 megabytes

so Brannoc  is saying they have 1 million MB's of video footage?

{ Mod Edit }

Fraps use an estimated 1 G pr. minute. 1 T is then 1000 minutes or roughly 42 days worth of movies.

It is alot of movie but not outside the realm of possiblility, disk storage being so cheap and all.

Originally posted by Xris375

Originally posted by erawropav

 terabyte = 1,048,576 megabytes

so Brannoc  is saying they have 1 million MB's of video footage?

{ Mod Edit }

 

Fraps use an estimated 1 G pr. minute. 1 T is then 1000 minutes or roughly 42 days worth of movies.

It is alot of movie but not outside the realm of possiblility, disk storage being so cheap and all.

thank you and  if more than 1 person records lala 1 TB pretty easy. and how long have they been working on getting the footage together. very easyly possible

Originally posted by erawropav

 terabyte = 1,048,576 megabytes

so Brannoc  is saying they have 1 million MB's of video footage?

{ Mod Edit }

you fail to relize brannoc may actully be a tester.

Originally posted by EndDream

If DF is feature complete.. and is everything they say.. I believe it will eventually max out at about 250,000. It is a niche game for sure.. but the niche is bigger than some may think

I agree.