ill be around i can admit when im wrong

 http://www.peakware.com/logs.html?log=5928&PHPSESSID=50e0e1fc3a69e34fd4047d1de44b0a55

Bjorn Eirik Larsen listed as Aventurines only AI programmer for Darkfall in 2004 previously only credited as music composer for the graphical adventure game The longest journey from 2000, seems to of found the time to enjoy a spot of hiking in Greece.

I wonder if 4 years later he’s still "playing around" with the same ideas he was talking about on the garage games forum 4 years ago for Darkfall’s AI whilst hiking in Greece or if he’s made more substantial progress, or perhaps if he’s even working for Aventurine anymore.

Either way it appears he had a nice time.

Originally posted by Polarization

 

 http://www.peakware.com/logs.html?log=5928&PHPSESSID=50e0e1fc3a69e34fd4047d1de44b0a55

 

Bjorn Eirik Larsen listed as Aventurines only AI programmer for Darkfall in 2004 previously only credited as music composer for the graphical adventure game The longest journey from 2000, seems to of [edit: *have*]  found the time to enjoy a spot of hiking in Greece.

I wonder if 4 years later he’s still "playing around" with the same ideas he was talking about on the garage games forum 4 years ago for Darkfall’s AI whilst hiking in Greece or if he’s made more substantial progress, or perhaps if he’s even working for Aventurine anymore.

Either way it appears he had a nice time.

yet more utterly irrelvant info... <yawn>

Also, you realise that's an extremely common name in scandanavia, roughly equivalent to John Erik Smith or the like. Very good chance it's not even the same person. In any case i'd like to do that trek sometime too.

And finally, Darkfall's AI programmer is Mirco Sanguinetti.

Yes the Bjorn Erik Larsen who was officially listed as Darkfalls only AI programmer in 2004.

Might not be this Bjorn Eirik Larsen on Garagegames

http://www.garagegames.com/my/home/view.profile.php?qid=42501

Profile: Bjorn Eirik Larsen

Who was saying this on the garage games forum in 2004 about his ideas for NPC AI.

http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=21869

Good thinking Nathaniel. In fact, I'm playing around with the same ideas myself! Consider this:

The Information Game:

Think of the NPCs forming an artificial socal network. If one NPC knows something, he might spread this knowledge by telling other NPCs. The player can make NPCs act directly or indirectly by inserting information into this network. Do you tell the truth? Do you tell a lie? What end result do you want? Any side effects? It doesn't have to be verbal information. What if an NPC sees you murder someone?

The Interaction Game:

An NPC has a personality defined by a few main traits. These traits colour the way the NPC talks and interacts with the player. How reliable is the information the NPC gives you? What can you read between the lines? How can you get the cooperation from an NPC? Can you make the NPC like you, feel attracted to you, respect you, or follow you?

-Bjorn

Also might not be the same Bjorn Eirik Larsen credited with music composition for The longest journay and "special effects" for Anarchy Online, but hopefully he is becuase at least he would have some credentials and previous experience within the undustry unlike most of the developers.

And he might not be the same Bjorn Eirik Larsen whos enjoying hiking trips in Greece at the same time another Bjorn Eirik Larson was working for Aventurine in Greece.

It might all just be a coincedence, but i doubt it, but of course you or anyone else is free to decide for themselves.

Great thread Pol', I guess the only way the fanbois are going to accept the obvious logical conclusion of Darkfall's failure and death, is to have the devs come to their house, slap them in the face and shout "WAKE UP".

It's incredible to me how naive some people are.  I am surprised they even make it in RL.  Must be good to see the world through a child's logic like the fanbois do.  I genuinely feel pity for them.

Originally posted by Trogg13

Firstly hello to yet another few days old alt account already with almost 50 posts attacking anyone who is critical of Darkfall and its developers.

Seeing as you edited your post to make it even more insulting and condescending then it was originally I decided to reply to it directly.

yet more utterly irrelvant info... <yawn>

And yet still more personal attacks and attempts at discrediting this by someone who appears to be compelled to respond to this “irrelevant info” yet again using freshly made accounts, I wonder.

maybe while you're devoting 90% of your free time trying to find dirt on darkfall, you could brush up on your year 7 spelling and grammar while you're there. I even corrected for you.

Maybe while your devoting 90% of your free time trying to defend and promote Darkfall, you could brush up on your tiresomely predictable and pathetically juvenile attempts at doing so.

And before you start ridiculing others spelling or grammar you probably should use a spell checker yourself, to not do so would make anyone look rather foolish and petty, oh wait…

Also, you realise that's an extremely common name in scandanavia, roughly equivalent to John Erik Smith or the like. Very good chance it's not even the same person. In any case i'd like to do that trek sometime too.

Because stating your opinion that it’s a “very good chance its not even the same person” is about the best defense you can some up with, and at the same time is a tacit admission that this it not something you want to be true because even you appreciate how badly it reflects.

And finally, Darkfall's AI programmer is Mirco Sanguinetti.

Because Tasos told you so in 2007, riiiight, and why exactly is mentioning that name supposed to mean anything to anyone, just like he said Bjorn Eirik Larsen was the AI programer in 2004.

So anything else to add other then yet another name of a person provided by Tasos who on cursory investigation appears to be yet another no name person with no or very little credentials or experience in the MMO industry.

Originally posted by Polarization

It might all just be a coincedence, but i doubt it, but of course you or anyone else is free to decide for themselves.

Oh i know he *has* worked on darkfall, we just don't know if he still is (or not). the last reference to AI programmer we have is Mirco, as i linked.

Originally posted by Trogg13

Originally posted by Polarization

It might all just be a coincedence, but i doubt it, but of course you or anyone else is free to decide for themselves.

 

Oh i know he *has* worked on darkfall, we just don't know if he still is (or not). the last reference to AI programmer we have is Mirco, as i linked.

 

btw, it's spelt 'coincidence', and it's "you or anyone else are free to decide", not "you or anyone else is free to decide".

 

 

lol...

So it's come down to pointing out spelling and grammar mistakes of the DF detractors to make you guys feel better about yourselves because you have nothing to counter-point their facts...

It reminds me of children who are losing an argument...  "oh yeah...  Well your stinky"

DF fanbois... Your one line riposte or personal attacks just aren't cutting it.

Get your heads out of the sand and come up with some facts of your own.  Not just what your glorious leader Tasos says.

Originally posted by Polarization

Originally posted by Astralian

 I just think the poster above was trying to say there was nothing to discuss, peoples CVs from unofficial sources. I look at the initial thread whats the point of it.

What you really mean is there’s nothing really positive to discuss about the facts and information presented, and I agree, so because your only interested or capable of talking positively about this project then you obviously have nothing to discuss.

The developers CV’s from LinkedIn are only a small proportion of the information presented in this thread, but of course one would have to read past the first page or not be in denial to appreciate that.

These “unofficial” CV’s were changed after I posted them here, and they are almost certainly legitimate because of all the circumstantial and correlative facts, your attempt to question them by casting dispersions about their authenticity is just another attempt to discredit 3^rd party information that does not reflect positively on this project.

The only reason why you or any of the other supporters declare this thread is pointless, irrelevant or empty is because most of the 3^rd party facts and information presented can not rationally be interpreted positively, so you are forced to resort to the usual and utterly predictable name calling, straw man arguments, semantics, denial and attempts at character assassination etc.

Are you trying to prove some dark conspiracy or theory ?

Nope, just presenting 3^rd party information and facts with my own personal opinion on what they mean, who knows what they really mean but we will get a very good idea if my interpretation of these facts are correct by the end of the year, so no need for conspiracy theories.

Is this just a post count excercise ?

What?, Alt/1 week old supporter account 2345 are you seriously accusing me of a post count exercise, how desperate and ludicrous can you get.

I wouldn't say this thread is funny though just empty you seem a little bitter with respect to DF.

The only people who have demonstrated they are bitter in my opinion are the supporters of this project who have felt compelled to personally attack and attempt to discredit me for posting information and facts they obviously find disquieting.

Again to declare this thread is empty is a very desperate attempt to deny this thread probably has at least 10 times more verifiable and new 3^rd party facts and information then any other Darkfall thread, of course if you disagree then please provide a link to a similar body of 3^rd party evidence, your failure to do so will demonstrate a tacit admission of this.

 

Anyone declaring this this thread is empty is a ridiculous statement to anyone who’s objectively comprehended the numerous and substantial information and facts presented and would only be said by someone who has an agenda to promote and discredit anything not positive about this project or by someone who’s in denial or simply someone who’s not read past the first page.

I used to doubt DF but when people go to the extent you seem to to pick at DF my gut feeling says it must exist.

So gut feeling’s and logical fallacy’s are all you have to support your opinion, forgive me if I don’t personally find that very persuasive, in fact I find it rather amusing if that’s all you have.

To put so much effort into doubting something you don't appear to believe in seems twisted.

And to put so much effort into believing something you don’t appear to be able justify belief in seems twisted to me.

This is not about belief, faith or trust for me, its about cold hard facts, I have presented them here, belief is not a requirement to objectively interpret them, in fact as you have demonstrated it makes that impossible.

We will see if your or any of the other supporters faith and belief in contradiction to this evidence is justified over the next 5 months, of course I very much doubt you actually will be around then If I am proven correct.

 

 

So in conclusion and just keeping things simple , I think that to put so much effort into doubting something you don't appear to believe in seems twisted. I could rattle an essay off like you appear to do in response to near every line someone type but there is no need.

Most of the content is factual but taken out of context, as someone who doesn't feel the need to invest vast ammounts of time trying too hard. I see enough information available regarding DF that I feel it will release in some form.

If something does not exist why would anyone be around pretty shady logic, yet another instance of a pointless statement.

(I wonder if another Novel will appear)

Am I the only person who sees the irony of pulling up the personal lives of aventurine employees while trying to claim game is vaporware or will "go out with a whimper".

 Plus moving from past work history and funding issues,  to where they vacation and their outside hobbies is moving into creepy creepy stalker territory.

First Pol good post , and i think i understand what you were getting at by giving this information. Which i will say it caters to both the fanbois and the neigh sayers which is good cos ppl can draw their own opinion of it. Now ive never posted on Darkfall before cos i cant say i know enough NOW to get into a solid debate over it. I did follow the game though up until a few years ago, when i first heard about the game i was 23 and excited im 31 now and cant believe this game is still talked about.

what does bother me is this, aside from early notions and attracting the attention of the major gaming sites there hasnt been any new updates given by such places like IGN for instance in quite sometime. And is only really being shared internally.  Even their last in 2007 states they hadnt actually seen the game and before that was dec 2006 but nothing after. Did they declare the game vaporware i wonder. or just decide if it finally surfaces to be more reality they ll cover it.

Considerations  "We know staying visible enough to inspire credibility, confidence and community growth is no easy task, especially for teams with modest resources. Nonetheless, it would be comforting to have a better feel for how Darkfall is progressing and a deeper understanding of how its potentially interesting features will actually function. "  qoute from last ign article

now i know its better to lay low key w/ such a game of this magnitude for more than obvious reasons but you would think that a game like this would also recieve a lot more hype and intrigue from the gaming community sites as well as regular updates. Especially since its claiming to offer so much.

Another thing that kinda bothers me is what i read on their official boards recently and thats the fact that when released its only releasing in EU and no NA release announced cos they havent found someone for it. That to me is a caution or a red flag, why you ask?  NA  has the largest potential client base to gain from. Not to mention with War and AoC why wouldnt someone on NA soil want to put another competitor into the frey? I mean our entertainment media players buy just about anything and everything now a a day. Just a thought. I mean even if they didnt want to compete a publisher would just push back a NA release date.

Anyways i could personally care less one way or another now, if it comes out great good to see the small guy finally come up w/ something grand especially if they execute what they promise. I hope ppl really dont set the expectations too high.  If it never sees the light of day, hey thank you for the concept i hope one day someone knocks it down.

/stop

Enough's enough.

This thread has devolved and gone off topic for way too long now.  So, I'm issuing this one warning, stay on topic, follow the rules, and keep it civilized.

/continue conversation

Originally posted by Astralian

 So in conclusion and just keeping things simple , I think that to put so much effort into doubting something you don't appear to believe in seems twisted. 

And in conclusion and just keeping things simple, I think that to put so much effort into believing something you don’t appear to be able to substantiate seems twisted.

I could rattle an essay off like you appear to do in response to near every line someone type but there is no need.

So now not only my spelling and grammar are grounds to dismiss or attack me but now also being accused of writing to much is now being held against me, oh well.

Most of the content is factual but taken out of context, as someone who doesn't feel the need to invest vast ammounts of time trying too hard.

Please demonstrate what parts of the content is not factual, by taken out of context i presume you mean not interpreted only postively.

"vast amounts of time" nope, most of it comes up on the first couple of pages of google, and how can i be trying to hard when i enjoy finding out all these juicy morsels so easily.

I see enough information available regarding DF that I feel it will release in some form.

I also see enough information to feel it will probably release in some form, exactly when and in what form remains to be seen, but im hardly optimistic especially considering what iv'e found recently. 

If something does not exist why would anyone be around pretty shady logic, yet another instance of a pointless statement.

What are you talking about?, i never said darkfall did not exist, if you cant comprehend why developers of games try to give the impression something is not what it actually is or will be then i cant help you.

I think people can decide for themselves whos been making pointless statements and indulging in pretty shady logic, especially by the end of the year.

(I wonder if another Novel will appear)

Sorry to disappoint you, perhaps another time.

o what did you find some lawyer who cares?

that could be anything.

now if you can get all the info required then you mite have something

Originally posted by Polarization

Originally posted by Astralian

 So in conclusion and just keeping things simple , I think that to put so much effort into doubting something you don't appear to believe in seems twisted. 

And in conclusion and just keeping things simple, I think that to put so much effort into believing something you don’t appear to be able to substantiate seems twisted.

I could rattle an essay off like you appear to do in response to near every line someone type but there is no need.

So now not only my spelling and grammar are grounds to dismiss or attack me but now also being accused of writing to much is now being held against me, oh well.

Most of the content is factual but taken out of context, as someone who doesn't feel the need to invest vast ammounts of time trying too hard.

Please demonstrate what parts of the content is not factual, by taken out of context i presume you mean not interpreted only postively.

"vast amounts of time" nope, most of it comes up on the first couple of pages of google, and how can i be trying to hard when i enjoy finding out all these juicy morsels so easily.

I see enough information available regarding DF that I feel it will release in some form.

I also see enough information to feel it will probably release in some form, exactly when and in what form remains to be seen, but im hardly optimistic especially considering what iv'e found recently. 

If something does not exist why would anyone be around pretty shady logic, yet another instance of a pointless statement.

What are you talking about?, i never said darkfall did not exist, if you cant comprehend why developers of games try to give the impression something is not what it actually is or will be then i cant help you.

I think people can decide for themselves whos been making pointless statements and indulging in pretty shady logic, especially by the end of the year.

(I wonder if another Novel will appear)

Sorry to disappoint you, perhaps another time.

 

 

So in conclusion and just keeping things very simple , I think if i keep it to one line you won't be able to produce a page. (Never Dissapointed)

I wanted concise responses if expressing this is an attack you must be dellusional, I guess you are playing the i will try to report someone by using the word attack interesting very interesting. I have my answers, and all i needed to know.

Originally posted by gotha

Am I the only person who sees the irony of pulling up the personal lives of aventurine employees while trying to claim game is vaporware or will "go out with a whimper".

 

By “pulling up the personal lives of Aventurine employees” I presume you mean easily finding any publicly available information available to anyone using google.

Have you ever heard “This is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a whimper” before?.

It pretty much sums up my experience of nearly every other independent MMO developer from the past who’s promised the world and then failed miserably, hopefully Aventurine will buck that trend but I doubt it.

 Plus moving from past work history and funding issues,  to where they vacation and their outside hobbies is moving into creepy creepy stalker territory.

 

That’s just the way the gods of google have guided me, all I can say is the devils in the detail, for me personally all this information no matter how obscure or extraneous is all part of the bigger picture, you can decide for yourself what that picture is, or you can dismiss everything in this thread as irrelevant or just keep attacking me personally for providing this information, your decision.

And if I’m a creepy creepy stalker then what are all the 1 week wonder accounts or the ardent supporters who keep stalking me in this thread?, stalker stalkers?, isn’t that even more creepy?

to bad you dont have all info needed

Originally posted by Xxeon

to bad you dont have all info needed

Has the Master of spin run out of steam yet ?

Originally posted by Isane

Originally posted by Xxeon

to bad you dont have all info needed

Has the Master of spin run out of steam yet ?

no i could hand them the game on a silver plater and they still wouldnt listen lol

BT Oren, full name Bjorn Tore Oren who's apparently “one of the original minds behind Darkfall”

http://web.archive.org/web/20010903100703/www.darkfallonline.com/news/index.shtml

12/08/2001
Bjorn Tore Oren, one of the orginal minds behind Darkfall (the other one obviously being Claus) is back on the Razorwax team! He is working on race descriptions, and other world background and design issues. You have already seen some of his work in the Alfar race description.
Welcome back BT!
-Ricki

Also Listed as “designer” in 2004 and credited as “world designer” in various updates around that time for Aventurine, only previous experience or credits for games appears to be this.

http://www.lysator.liu.se/tolkien-games/

http://www.lysator.liu.se/tolkien-games/credits.html

Also thanks to the following for minor help: Bjørn Tore Øren

His blog http://www.unutterable.com/ does not currently link to Darkfall,

but it did last year http://web.archive.org/web/20070225081921/http://www.unutterable.com/

But it did not 2 years ago http://web.archive.org/web/20060829034143/http://www.unutterable.com/

Perhapes after leaving Razorwax and returning to the team 2001, hes also been leaving and returning to work for the Aventurine team at various times.

Perhaps he’s been occupied with other unrelated interests such as trying to sell his paintings and photographs like these.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010727022723/http://www.unutterable.com/