Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by gillvane1

No offense to the ladies that play MMORPGs, but IMO the actual numbers are so small as to be inconsequential.

I think you could design an MMO that would get large numbers of female players, but it would not be something I'd want to play.

I like to see male and female avatars running around the landscape, because it makes for a more visually interesting game, but I don't really care what your actual gender is behind the avatar. I want you to not be an asshat, have something interesting to say if you want to chat or at least be polite, and do your job so the party doesn't get wiped. If you do that, I don't care if you're 16, or 60, male or female.

 

There again stereotyping what women want in a game that makes it  something you would not want to play. Most women I know that play like hardcore pvp  and are very good at it.  We are guild leaders, war leaders and excellent pkrs.  So unless you just like sissy boy noncombat games only you might have more in common with female gamers than you want to imagine.

I agree, in all Pk and pvp games. the women there are kickass at what they are doing, and being a small minority? I think not. They are actually (what i think of, could be really off my feet here) more than 20% of the total gaming community. Ive met countless of girls that are infact girls.  That knows the games ive played much better than anyone ive met. so yeah.. Being sexist in games doesn't suit our generation and the 20th century.

well .. cnn says that 38% of gamers are women, and  i think that number is low.

here is the link:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/ptech/02/28/women.gamers/index.html

Well, i do know that the numbers were high, but 38% was awesome. Seems they are getting more and more noted. Which is a positive thing. Everyone should love gaming and all that comes with it :-p

Though it's very much true that it's not 50/50. And i doubt it will ever be that way. Guys will always tend to draw easier to games due to that we are easily amused :p

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by gillvane1

No offense to the ladies that play MMORPGs, but IMO the actual numbers are so small as to be inconsequential.

I think you could design an MMO that would get large numbers of female players, but it would not be something I'd want to play.

I like to see male and female avatars running around the landscape, because it makes for a more visually interesting game, but I don't really care what your actual gender is behind the avatar. I want you to not be an asshat, have something interesting to say if you want to chat or at least be polite, and do your job so the party doesn't get wiped. If you do that, I don't care if you're 16, or 60, male or female.

 

There again stereotyping what women want in a game that makes it  something you would not want to play. Most women I know that play like hardcore pvp  and are very good at it.  We are guild leaders, war leaders and excellent pkrs.  So unless you just like sissy boy noncombat games only you might have more in common with female gamers than you want to imagine.

Actually, I think you and the women you know just enjoy playing MMO's like a guy.  There have been tomboys for years, but they don't represent the bulk of the female population.

There is another thread on these forums I just posted in by a female gamer with a totally different view than yours. She and her friends are in fact looking for an MMO experience different than the one enjoyed by most males and  yourself today and is bemoaning the lack of it by today's offerings.

Point is...you are not the typical female I don't believe,  and hence aren't considering the other view any more than most men do.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by deviliscious

 

There again stereotyping what women want in a game that makes it  something you would not want to play. Most women I know that play like hardcore pvp  and are very good at it.  We are guild leaders, war leaders and excellent pkrs.  So unless you just like sissy boy noncombat games only you might have more in common with female gamers than you want to imagine.

 

Actually, I think you and the women you know just enjoy playing MMO's like a guy.  There have been tomboys for years, but they don't represent the bulk of the female population.

There is another thread on these forums I just posted in by a female gamer with a totally different view than yours. She and her friends are in fact looking for an MMO experience different than the one enjoyed by most males and  yourself today and is bemoaning the lack of it by today's offerings.

Point is...you are not the typical female I don't believe,  and hence aren't considering the other view any more than most men do.

 

I wear dresses, do my hair makeup and nails like all the rest of the girls. I decorate my home and have flowers in every room, but I am considered a tom boy for enjoying the excitement and challenge of pvp? I think not. I disagree strongly that  the majority of the female players playing today do not like hardcore pvp, because in my expieriance in games that offered many types of combat and noncombat skills the women were more into the pvp aspect than the guys. I think that  the issue of personal tastes in games  is not a gender issue but a matter of  preference. Sure there are many things I think are lacking from games today, and hope that developers take them into consideration on making new mmos, but I think  males and females both feel this way.  Considering in my country that more women than men are applying for conceal to carry permits for handguns, and  there are more women enrolling in self defense courses that the combat issue is not a gender issue at all, in reality or games. Women in my country participate in sports very competively and in games just as competively so I do not think that is a gender issue at all.

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by deviliscious

 

There again stereotyping what women want in a game that makes it  something you would not want to play. Most women I know that play like hardcore pvp  and are very good at it.  We are guild leaders, war leaders and excellent pkrs.  So unless you just like sissy boy noncombat games only you might have more in common with female gamers than you want to imagine.

 

Actually, I think you and the women you know just enjoy playing MMO's like a guy.  There have been tomboys for years, but they don't represent the bulk of the female population.

There is another thread on these forums I just posted in by a female gamer with a totally different view than yours. She and her friends are in fact looking for an MMO experience different than the one enjoyed by most males and  yourself today and is bemoaning the lack of it by today's offerings.

Point is...you are not the typical female I don't believe,  and hence aren't considering the other view any more than most men do.

 

 

I wear dresses, do my hair makeup and nails like all the rest of the girls. I decorate my home and have flowers in every room, but I am considered a tom boy for enjoying the excitement and challenge of pvp? I think not. I disagree strongly that  the majority of the female players playing today do not like hardcore pvp, because in my expieriance in games that offered many types of combat and noncombat skills the women were more into the pvp aspect than the guys. I think that  the issue of personal tastes in games  is not a gender issue but a matter of  preference. Sure there are many things I think are lacking from games today, and hope that developers take them into consideration on making new mmos, but I think  males and females both feel this way.  Considering in my country that more women than men are applying for conceal to carry permits for handguns, and  there are more women enrolling in self defense courses that the combat issue is not a gender issue at all, in reality or games. Women in my country participate in sports very competively and in games just as competively so I do not think that is a gender issue at all.

LOL, I live in the same country, though you live in Texas which is about the only place in the US more than my home state of Florida where carrying concealed weapons is considered a God-given right.  Most women purchase hand guns out of a fear motivation (which I'll admit, is partially my reason for having them, along with the cool macho image they provide0

I've fought for women guild leaders, one of the toughest ever was a 24 year old teacher who was a harsh taskmaster, but very successful commander.  Again, she's the exception to the typical female I've met in games, who defintely more often than not favor healing characters, enjoy crafting and gathering for the guild, and normally are fairly good peacemakers, when not stirring up drama which of course isnt' a trait at all restricted to women.

What you are failing to acknowledge is that you are the exception not the rule here in the US. Trust me on this, I've got two 20+ year old daughers, and I've met dozens, if not hundreds of young women over the years through them and no matter how you try to deny it, women are much different than men in many ways, and their thinking on games is just one area.

 As a comparison... number of my daughters friends who play MMO's are... zero. (though my one daughter did till 15 yrs old, when it became too geeky for her.).  Number of my teenage son's friends who play MMO's is... well 100% which is about 10 or 12 guys, and includes 2 girls he also knows from school that play.

Numbers don't lie, and I'll have to go with my own personal experience on the issue.

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by gillvane1

No offense to the ladies that play MMORPGs, but IMO the actual numbers are so small as to be inconsequential.

I think you could design an MMO that would get large numbers of female players, but it would not be something I'd want to play.

I like to see male and female avatars running around the landscape, because it makes for a more visually interesting game, but I don't really care what your actual gender is behind the avatar. I want you to not be an asshat, have something interesting to say if you want to chat or at least be polite, and do your job so the party doesn't get wiped. If you do that, I don't care if you're 16, or 60, male or female.

 

There again stereotyping what women want in a game that makes it  something you would not want to play. Most women I know that play like hardcore pvp  and are very good at it.  We are guild leaders, war leaders and excellent pkrs.  So unless you just like sissy boy noncombat games only you might have more in common with female gamers than you want to imagine.

Most data shows that the typical AAA MMORPG is more than 70% guys (and probably more like 80% or more guys).

Again, no offense to those ladies that like to play an MMORPG, and I think you are being just a bit overly sensitive. I'm sure women can do all the things you posted, and can beat my butt in FPS games as well. But that's not my point.

I'm saying that when you design a game that isn't 70% or more guys , and is 50/50 guys and girls, or 70% girls and 30% guys, it's not going to be a game I want to play.

I'm more than happy for you to prove me wrong, and point out a current MMO that's at least 50/50 guys and girls, that sounds like something I'd like to play.

Originally posted by deviliscious

well .. cnn says that 38% of gamers are women, and  i think that number is low.

here is the link:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/ptech/02/28/women.gamers/index.html

That includes games like poker, hearts, chess, and stuff like that.

You guys stop being sexist and generalizing

@Devilicious

You sound hot and you play online games...my perfect Girlfriend ...I wish there were more ladies like you in South Africa ...please send me photo :)

Before I get lambasted ...I'm joking to all of the above ,well anything nasty I said .Im glad we can have debates like this .In summary my view hasn't changed ...I like talking and adventuring in online games with ladies .I wish there were more :)

Later All
:)

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by deviliscious

I wear dresses, do my hair makeup and nails like all the rest of the girls. I decorate my home and have flowers in every room, but I am considered a tom boy for enjoying the excitement and challenge of pvp? I think not. I disagree strongly that  the majority of the female players playing today do not like hardcore pvp, because in my expieriance in games that offered many types of combat and noncombat skills the women were more into the pvp aspect than the guys. I think that  the issue of personal tastes in games  is not a gender issue but a matter of  preference. Sure there are many things I think are lacking from games today, and hope that developers take them into consideration on making new mmos, but I think  males and females both feel this way.  Considering in my country that more women than men are applying for conceal to carry permits for handguns, and  there are more women enrolling in self defense courses that the combat issue is not a gender issue at all, in reality or games. Women in my country participate in sports very competively and in games just as competively so I do not think that is a gender issue at all.

LOL, I live in the same country, though you live in Texas which is about the only place in the US more than my home state of Florida where carrying concealed weapons is considered a God-given right.  Most women purchase hand guns out of a fear motivation (which I'll admit, is partially my reason for having them, along with the cool macho image they provide0

Well maybe because i am Texas girl and have been shooting since I was a child, I am very comfortable with firearms. Though any sane persons choice to bear arms is driven by fear. Either fear of seeing someone you care about hurt,  fear of being overpowered or fear of not having one when someone else does. Other than the psychos who buy guns to intentionally harm others, there is only one reason to buy a gun, to defend yourself and others from those psychos. I do not think that people buy guns to look cool, that is just silly.

I've fought for women guild leaders, one of the toughest ever was a 24 year old teacher who was a harsh taskmaster, but very successful commander.  Again, she's the exception to the typical female I've met in games, who defintely more often than not favor healing characters, enjoy crafting and gathering for the guild, and normally are fairly good peacemakers, when not stirring up drama which of course isnt' a trait at all restricted to women.

I do not think that is an exception to "typical" females I think that is an exception to typical gamers.  There are many casual gamers of both sexes that are not into the whole pvp aspect of games and that is not limited by gender. I have known more guys that liked to play healers than girls in the games i have played.

What you are failing to acknowledge is that you are the exception not the rule here in the US. Trust me on this, I've got two 20+ year old daughers, and I've met dozens, if not hundreds of young women over the years through them and no matter how you try to deny it, women are much different than men in many ways, and their thinking on games is just one area.

I have female friends that play mmos as well, friends I have known since gradeschool.  Yes women may be different in some ways, they are not as typical as you like to think.  I would agree that most women are not all that interested in mech type games as finding female players on those types of games is harder to do, but I think in fantasy type games the female population is greatly increasing.   Women for the most part do not know about these type of games simply because there is no advertising in womens magazines or girl sites for these. Most women do not even know what an mmorpg is,  or where to find one. Once a girl does play one you would be suprised at the number of them that actually enjoy them.

 As a comparison... number of my daughters friends who play MMO's are... zero. (though my one daughter did till 15 yrs old, when it became too geeky for her.).  Number of my teenage son's friends who play MMO's is... well 100% which is about 10 or 12 guys, and includes 2 girls he also knows from school that play.

I play with my real friends as well as friends i have met online. I party with my  friends that play outside of games as well. we use cams, messengers, headsets to communicate in game . These days you have female cheerleaders, gymnastics captains ,lifeguards, teachers, secretaries, employers,  bartenders, and models all playing mmos. Just because those are the statitistics for your family does not mean that applies to all.   Me and my girl friends also played mk, mario and  console games together growing up. It was not until my male friend introduced me to mmos that I became aware of their existance and  started playing them.  It is funny alot of people that play games like wow, runescape and guildwars still have no idea what an mmorpg even is, but they enjoy them.

Numbers don't lie, and I'll have to go with my own personal experience on the issue.

 

Originally posted by gillvane1

 

Most data shows that the typical AAA MMORPG is more than 70% guys (and probably more like 80% or more guys).

Again, no offense to those ladies that like to play an MMORPG, and I think you are being just a bit overly sensitive. I'm sure women can do all the things you posted, and can beat my butt in FPS games as well. But that's not my point.

I'm saying that when you design a game that isn't 70% or more guys , and is 50/50 guys and girls, or 70% girls and 30% guys, it's not going to be a game I want to play.

I'm more than happy for you to prove me wrong, and point out a current MMO that's at least 50/50 guys and girls, that sounds like something I'd like to play.

where is this most data? have a link? Most women do not even know what an mmorpg is.. they just know the names of games  and whether or not they like it. Most women are not even aware of these things because there is little or no advertising in places women go. When that changes you will see a huge change in the number of women players on all games. 

Originally posted by bcrankshaw

You guys stop being sexist and generalizing

@Devilicious

You sound hot and you play online games...my perfect Girlfriend ...I wish there were more ladies like you in South Africa ...please send me photo :)

 

 

Before I get lambasted ...I'm joking to all of the above ,well anything nasty I said .Im glad we can have debates like this .In summary my view hasn't changed ...I like talking and adventuring in online games with ladies .I wish there were more :)

Later All
:)

okay that is creepy. you need a girlfriend .. but not a pixel one :P  I am sure there are nice girls in your area.. just don;t come at them with pick up lines like that

I think it is funny that all these guys my parents age 40-50 age range think they know what a typical woman even is these days. Times have changed boys! Girls these days have too.. think you guys have some catching up to do on the subject. *giggles*

Originally posted by bcrankshaw

@ Arcken

shame dude ,you are obviously not a very interesting person  to talk to  ,You say that  your experience is only over 30's women offer worthwhile chats ?

Well I have  several ICQ  addresses of women I met in online games that I chat to regularly,many of them are under 30  .I also have several guys I chat to .No I'm not  suggesting I'm a stud...I just find it easy to talk to women and you can have sustainable friendships with them .

Its actually really easy to talk to women in Online games ...easier  than RL as you have something in common automatically  ...the game .

And no " I don't consider it a great accolade to be online ladies man..considering the fact it's a  virtual title and lacks real substance "

Later Gator

Or it could be Im already married and dont prowl around the internet looking for female attention. Your kinda creepy rofl. I hope you dont end up trying talk one of my daughters up.....Which is exactly why I make sure the comp they use is always where I can see it :P
 

@ Arcken

Yip I am creepy cause I enjoy talking to ladies on the internet

I actually battle with this perverse aberration and sometimes dont sleep at night

But you know what ...I  accept  this terrible flaw :)

Originally posted by gillvane1

No offense to the ladies that play MMORPGs, but IMO the actual numbers are so small as to be inconsequential.

I think you could design an MMO that would get large numbers of female players, but it would not be something I'd want to play.

I like to see male and female avatars running around the landscape, because it makes for a more visually interesting game, but I don't really care what your actual gender is behind the avatar. I want you to not be an asshat, have something interesting to say if you want to chat or at least be polite, and do your job so the party doesn't get wiped. If you do that, I don't care if you're 16, or 60, male or female.

Actually you sound like a person I would like grouping with. I want other players to see me as just a player/POM or whatever, not as a female there just for them to throw innuendos at. I am there to have fun, chatter about game or life but fun..not to find a life mate since I am already married. Just cause I have boobs does not mean I have nothing else to offer. I wouldnt on purpose be an asshat but I don't have much grouping experience so may make mistakes eeps

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by gillvane1

No offense to the ladies that play MMORPGs, but IMO the actual numbers are so small as to be inconsequential.

I think you could design an MMO that would get large numbers of female players, but it would not be something I'd want to play.

I like to see male and female avatars running around the landscape, because it makes for a more visually interesting game, but I don't really care what your actual gender is behind the avatar. I want you to not be an asshat, have something interesting to say if you want to chat or at least be polite, and do your job so the party doesn't get wiped. If you do that, I don't care if you're 16, or 60, male or female.

 

There again stereotyping what women want in a game that makes it  something you would not want to play. Most women I know that play like hardcore pvp  and are very good at it.  We are guild leaders, war leaders and excellent pkrs.  So unless you just like sissy boy noncombat games only you might have more in common with female gamers than you want to imagine.

You just did the same thing.  Who are you to speak for everybody else?  Don't you people understand this?  Some people like cute things, some people like fashion, some are slobs, some are lazy, some like PvP, etc.  Your gender has nothing to do with that.

Originally posted by bcrankshaw

@ Arcken

Yip I am creepy cause I enjoy talking to ladies on the internet

I actually battle with this perverse aberration and sometimes dont sleep at night

But you know what ...I  accept  this terrible flaw :)

 

 

 

Nah its just creepy because if you were really enamored with the opposite sex, Im sure you could find better venues to not only talk to them, but have actual (/gasp) phsyical contact with a few.

I mean really which sounds creepier....

a) I like to spend time around the ladies.

b) I like to talk to girls on the internet.

I talk to a lot of guys on the net ingames. We discuss world events, politics, our kids, spouses..game issues. They don't come on and make it all sexual junk..they talk about the issues. What is wrong with enjoying speaking to ppl of the opposite sex? Its great to hear it from different points of view. I really  enjoyed gaming when they let americans and all other countries mix (swg is one that did). Culture also plays a big part in how the see the world. You guys are a bit judgemental I think.

---

Originally posted by Waterlily
I just wanted to let you all know this. I know it's quite shocking and interesting but it's a fact, there are girls in MMO.

---

This is a lie. It's a well established fact that there are no girls on the interwebs.

Those that DO claim to be female are always lonely males practising gender-bending.