The comment 'People who like the game don't come to the forums. That's all' is just trying to express a fairly obvious concept but in an unfortunately bad way.

When people are happy, some like to tell the world why they are so happy but many just sit back & enoy it.

When people are unhappy, some like keep it to themselves & move on but many tell everyone they meet.

Assuming that people were happy & unhappy in equal proportions, but the percentanges above were both 25/75, then if the 'chatty' people used forums to communicate it would look like 75% of people were unhappy rather than the correct value of 50%.

Before anyone comments, the above figures are just used for illustration purposes only and are not supposed to reflect anything about people who have played AoC.

Whilst the original empirical comment was innaccurate, the basic concept seems fairly obvious to me.

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Originally posted by LondonMagus

When people are happy, some like to tell the world why they are so happy but many just sit back & enoy it.
 

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So basically, you subscribe to the idea that online/forum communities are made up of mostly negative and unhappy members.

The Harry Potter, WoW, Star Wars, Star Trek and other fandoms flat out contradict that philosophy.

Online/forum communities are good representation of the whole community if not actually biased in favor of the subject due to their natures.

Originally posted by Gazenthia

 

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Originally posted by LondonMagus

When people are happy, some like to tell the world why they are so happy but many just sit back & enoy it.
 

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So basically, you subscribe to the idea that online/forum communities are made up of mostly negative and unhappy members.

The Harry Potter, WoW, Star Wars, Star Trek and other fandoms flat out contradict that philosophy.

Online/forum communities are good representation of the whole community if not actually biased in favor of the subject due to their natures.

Harry Potter & Star Trek aren't MMOs yet so their communities aren't comparable. The SOW SWG forums are permanently smouldering with flames though & I have also seen quite a lot of negative posts about WoW. For the latter though, it is hard to argue with such immense success so they are not quite as easy a target as AoC.

If you believe that Online/Forum communities are are good & proportionate representation of the whole community, well that is your opinion & you are entitled to it but it doesn't actually contradict my original argument because I was referring to people who take the trouble to actively voice their opinions.

The general principle applies to any sector of life because it is a reflection of human nature.

In my opinion of course.

Originally posted by LondonMagus

Originally posted by Gazenthia

 

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Originally posted by LondonMagus

When people are happy, some like to tell the world why they are so happy but many just sit back & enoy it.
 

---

 

So basically, you subscribe to the idea that online/forum communities are made up of mostly negative and unhappy members.

The Harry Potter, WoW, Star Wars, Star Trek and other fandoms flat out contradict that philosophy.

Online/forum communities are good representation of the whole community if not actually biased in favor of the subject due to their natures.

Harry Potter & Star Trek aren't MMOs yet so their communities aren't comparable. The SOW SWG forums are permanently smouldering with flames though & I have also seen quite a lot of negative posts about WoW. For the latter though, it is hard to argue with such immense success so they are not quite as easy a target as AoC.

If you believe that Online/Forum communities are are good & proportionate representation of the whole community, well that is your opinion & you are entitled to it but it doesn't actually contradict my original argument because I was referring to people who take the trouble to actively voice their opinions.

The general principle applies to any sector of life because it is a reflection of human nature.

In my opinion of course.

London's right...to a point. Most people need some kind of incentive, some reason, to make their opinion heard. 99% of the time it's because something's wrong or they're angry, so they come off as negative. Rarely will people just make threads/posts about how awesome the game is for no reason, unless they think they can combat the tide of "negative" threads/posts. However, people who enjoy the game will try to defend it more often than not. Would they come off as "positive"? I suppose so. But if the game is good, they should be spending their time playing it, so actually the less "fanbois" you see post-launch in forums could be used to gauge (if inaccurately) how good a game is.

I haven't seen a certain "fanboi" here in a while, but now he's back, perhaps because of all the negativity towards AoC? I don't know. But there are people who aren't always mad or always negative in forums. It's just what you hear most because when something's wrong, people feel like they need to tell everyone, even if just as a civil service kind of thing.

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Originally posted by Elsabolts

I posted on the funcom forums and got banned for asking why no dx10 and only 2 or 3 days notice that it would not be in game and could i get a refund on my buddy passes that came with an overpriced collectors edition. Oh and spending over a 1,000.00 on upgradeing computer along with collectors edition. Im not to upset but i will do everything in my power to inform others that it would be best to spend your money else where.

 

 

Because you spent $1000, and didn't know things could change before release?

Nice..

So its F.C's fault you spent that money and it wasn't what you expected for that cost?

I can't tell you how many thousands of people are in game still subbed and feel the need to play the game and not post on any forums.

If you though the Collects Edition was overpriced... why the hell did you buy it?

So for your mistakes you troll around swinging the argument the other way.

too funny..

Avery, do funcom pay you by the hour or by posts made. I know a lot of funcom employees get paid by the amount of lies they tell..ign insider age conan edition anyone, youtube it.

People who like the game don't come to the forums. That's all.  » WRONG

People who like the game DO visit forums, but you need to understand that those of us who enjoy the game kinda get tired of these wanna be gamers to alway's bash anything slightly positive, and often due to their lack of experiance they will resort to sad words like calling others who might enjoy the game fanboys, which only PROOFS the lack of experiance these people have with games in this genre.

And sorry but each time someone makes a positive post or wants to share some of his or her opinion it's only accepted on forums like this when you bash a game cause lets face it by the looks of forums like this it looks as if it's better to bash a game then actualy enjoy it.

Originally posted by Reklaw

 

People who like the game don't come to the forums. That's all.  » WRONG

People who like the game DO visit forums, but you need to understand that those of us who enjoy the game kinda get tired of these wanna be gamers to alway's bash anything slightly positive, and often due to their lack of experiance they will resort to sad words like calling others who might enjoy the game fanboys, which only PROOFS the lack of experiance these people have with games in this genre.

And sorry but each time someone makes a positive post or wants to share some of his or her opinion it's only accepted on forums like this when you bash a game cause lets face it by the looks of forums like this it looks as if it's better to bash a game then actualy enjoy it.

People who like the game don't come to the forums. That's all.  » RIGHT

People who like the game DON'T visit THESE forums, but you need to understand that those of you who enjoy the game and are on these forums, I believe you are in denial. It's a simple concept. If you LIKE a game, you either play it or browse the game forums. You want to play your game, but keep an eye on other games and people's ideas about the game you yourself like? That just seems ridiculous.

And sorry but each time someone makes a negative post or wants to share some of his or her opinion it's only rejected on forums like this because then you are just a flaming troll rather than a person with an opinion.

Originally posted by Meltdown

Originally posted by Reklaw

People who like the game don't come to the forums. That's all.  » WRONG

People who like the game DO visit forums, but you need to understand that those of us who enjoy the game kinda get tired of these wanna be gamers to alway's bash anything slightly positive, and often due to their lack of experiance they will resort to sad words like calling others who might enjoy the game fanboys, which only PROOFS the lack of experiance these people have with games in this genre.

And sorry but each time someone makes a positive post or wants to share some of his or her opinion it's only accepted on forums like this when you bash a game cause lets face it by the looks of forums like this it looks as if it's better to bash a game then actualy enjoy it.

People who like the game don't come to the forums. That's all.  » RIGHT

People who like the game DON'T visit THESE forums, but you need to understand that those of you who enjoy the game and are on these forums, I believe you are in denial. It's a simple concept. If you LIKE a game, you either play it or browse the game forums. You want to play your game, but keep an eye on other games and people's ideas about the game you yourself like? That just seems ridiculous.

And sorry but each time someone makes a negative post or wants to share some of his or her opinion it's only rejected on forums like this because then you are just a flaming troll rather than a person with an opinion.

If you LIKE a game, you either play it or browse the game forums. You want to play your game, but keep an eye on other games and people's ideas about the game you yourself like? That just seems ridiculous.

Not really, you just need to use a bit of common sense. Whilst it is possible to browse forums & even make posts throughout the day while you are at work, it obviously isn't possible to play the actual game all day because a) it probably would not be installed & b) you would almost certainly get fired.

Nice try at trying to twist someone else's words though, shame it failed miserably.

Originally posted by Meltdown

 

People who like the game don't come to the forums. That's all.  » RIGHT

People who like the game DON'T visit THESE forums, but you need to understand that those of you who enjoy the game and are on these forums, I believe you are in denial. It's a simple concept. If you LIKE a game, you either play it or browse the game forums. You want to play your game, but keep an eye on other games and people's ideas about the game you yourself like? That just seems ridiculous.

And sorry but each time someone makes a negative post or wants to share some of his or her opinion it's only rejected on forums like this because then you are just a flaming troll rather than a person with an opinion.

So if someone enjoy's a game he should not visit forums but devote all his time towards playing that game?. Seems you really lack any form of experiance.  But then again many people have such a narrowminded view that your comment didn't really suprise me.

Originally posted by LondonMagus

If you LIKE a game, you either play it or browse the game forums. You want to play your game, but keep an eye on other games and people's ideas about the game you yourself like? That just seems ridiculous.

Not really, you just need to use a bit of common sense. Whilst it is possible to browse forums & even make posts throughout the day while you are at work, it obviously isn't possible to play the actual game all day because a) it probably would not be installed & b) you would almost certainly get fired.

Nice try at trying to twist someone else's words though, shame it failed miserably.

Read "the game forums". So yes, people browse forums, but not these. I have never, ever in my life visited mmorpg.com when I was happy playing an MMO. That is reason enough for me to place MY OPINION on these boards regarding MY EXPERIENCE with this topic. And I enjoyed my little play on words, it wasn't meant to twist his, but only show the other side and why both posting positively and negatively on these boards gets you labeled as a troll or a fanboy. There is no middle ground!

"People who like the game don't come to the forums. That's all. " statement comes from a basic marketing rule, however it does not imply the whole story behind it.

In marketing, there is a rule for word of mouth:

- For every 10 complaining customers spreading words about how dissatisfied they were with a product, there will be only 1 satisfied customer spreading positive word.

That is one of the basic mottos of marketing. It demonstrates the situation. For all products this can be said, but of course for one particular product the average might be different.

For example, for automobiles the ratio might be Negative : Positive = 5 : 1.

For services, this ratio becomes more and more important. Have a look at movies for example, word of mouth is very important for movies. MMOs are also services, so I can clearly state that "For every 20 (or more) complaining customers spreading the hate (=hateboi), you will have only 1 satisfied customer spreading positive word (=fanboi)."

Hateboi : Fanboi ~ 20 : 1 for a typical MMO.

However, if the service is really above expectations and there can be only few negative implications, then the Hateboi : Fanboi ratio decreases. For example WoW has an average Hateboi : Fanboi ratio of 5 : 1 probably.

In either case, an INTELLIGENT customer neither listens to the hatebois nor fanbois, but filters this information for his own choices.

I don't know where the numbers come from, but it makes sense to me Xtort. I can think of all the things I have bought online. For example newegg.com. I've purchased 10-20 things on there. All of which I was satisfied with and I never left a positive comment on their website. On the flip-side I recently saw The Dark Knight and I am telling everyone I know to go see it because I thought it was a great movie. So yea, I agree with the idea, although skeptical of the actual numbers (unless they are just used for example.)

Originally posted by Meltdown

Originally posted by LondonMagus

If you LIKE a game, you either play it or browse the game forums. You want to play your game, but keep an eye on other games and people's ideas about the game you yourself like? That just seems ridiculous.

Not really, you just need to use a bit of common sense. Whilst it is possible to browse forums & even make posts throughout the day while you are at work, it obviously isn't possible to play the actual game all day because a) it probably would not be installed & b) you would almost certainly get fired.

Nice try at trying to twist someone else's words though, shame it failed miserably.

Read "the game forums". So yes, people browse forums, but not these. I have never, ever in my life visited mmorpg.com when I was happy playing an MMO. That is reason enough for me to place MY OPINION on these boards regarding MY EXPERIENCE with this topic. And I enjoyed my little play on words, it wasn't meant to twist his, but only show the other side and why both posting positively and negatively on these boards gets you labeled as a troll or a fanboy. There is no middle ground!

Fine so you haven't ever visited these boards whilst you were happy playing an MMO, but it would be a very dull world if everyone was the same & since other people do not necessarily share your motivations, the whole basis of your argument is flawed.

Personally I like to play Devil's Advocate in arguments, which is why I play a Demonologist.

As for the last point about there being no middle ground, I disagree entirely. In my opinion the whole 'Hateboi Vs Fanboi' thing pretty bizarre, it's a game not a religion & whilst I currently enjoy playing AoC, I have no loyalty to it whatsoever & would happily switch games if something better came along.

This isn't a poor reflection on AoC as I would say the same about anything, since MMO games are a pastime &  nothing else. Maybe people that think of themselves as 'Hardcore' feel differently & are only capable of fanatical love or hate, but for the 'Casual' people who now form the majority of players & who are the real target audience for the game developers, such extremes just seem silly.

Just my opinions of course.

Originally posted by Meltdown

yes, people browse forums, but not these. I have never, ever in my life visited mmorpg.com when I was happy playing an MMO. That is reason enough for me to place MY OPINION on these boards regarding MY EXPERIENCE with this topic. And I enjoyed my little play on words, it wasn't meant to twist his, but only show the other side and why both posting positively and negatively on these boards gets you labeled as a troll or a fanboy. There is no middle ground!

I agree there doesnt seem to be a middle ground for the labelling

I'm always visiting forums

I sometimes dont visit these specific forums as much as fansite forums

(good example would be I prefer the Guild Wars Riverside forums)

- depends on the information being discussed, altho I doubt AOC fans will find much info here

I do follow the AOC forum more than any other on mmorpg.com

I dont hate AOC but I no longer sub - I will even defend Funcom if I see a statement being twisted too much   (which is why I agree with your statement about labelling here)

Ive been accused of being both a troll and a fan   (depending what I say)

Originally posted by Xtort

"People who like the game don't come to the forums. That's all. " statement comes from a basic marketing rule, however it does not imply the whole story behind it.

In marketing, there is a rule for word of mouth:

- For every 10 complaining customers spreading words about how dissatisfied they were with a product, there will be only 1 satisfied customer spreading positive word.

That is one of the basic mottos of marketing. It demonstrates the situation. For all products this can be said, but of course for one particular product the average might be different.

For example, for automobiles the ratio might be Negative : Positive = 5 : 1.

For services, this ratio becomes more and more important. Have a look at movies for example, word of mouth is very important for movies. MMOs are also services, so I can clearly state that "For every 20 (or more) complaining customers spreading the hate (=hateboi), you will have only 1 satisfied customer spreading positive word (=fanboi)."

Hateboi : Fanboi ~ 20 : 1 for a typical MMO.

However, if the service is really above expectations and there can be only few negative implications, then the Hateboi : Fanboi ratio decreases. For example WoW has an average Hateboi : Fanboi ratio of 5 : 1 probably.

In either case, an INTELLIGENT customer neither listens to the hatebois nor fanbois, but filters this information for his own choices.

Discriminating viewers of forum content also know that some individuals rip on a game (or anything else) as a cheap and faclie way to appear tough and sophisticated.

Forums are mainly used for whining (trolls) and occassionally used for praising (fanbois). I think its true that MOST people enjoy the game play it. and people who don't stop playing and go and whine on the forums. obviously thats not true for everyone (hence the most, I know one of you retards is gona miss that most!).

Originally posted by Consensus

Forums are mainly used for whining (trolls) and occassionally used for praising (fanbois). I think its true that MOST people enjoy the game play it. and people who don't stop playing and go and whine on the forums. obviously thats not true for everyone (hence the most, I know one of you retards is gona miss that most!).

Unprovable statement.  The retention numbers are closely guarded secret.  Most polls and XFire Tracking I have seen for AoC have 50% plus quitting before the free month ran out.  Does that mean it's an actual number no, but it does hint towards that "MOST" people are not enjoying the game.

Unfortunately I cannot say that as fact, the same as you cannot say the opposite.  Hopefully Funcom will give some sort of retention statement in its 2nd Quarter Profit Statement which I believe is due the first week of August.

Just thought I'd add this Thread from the AoC forums. http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=146396 I don't know how long it will last before being deleted but the example of whole guilds collapsing should be a big warning sign.

uups. i thought this is  a forum for mature gamers, but i stepped trough the gates of Kindergarten.

Age of Conan is a great game, its not even been officaly released for 3 months yet.

Its a great game and funcom is very known for adding many new things to its games as the games progress,

Most of the people who are playing the game are having to much fun to bother with coming to forums to post. You really need to get past the newb area, Over level 20 before you can really say much about the game and then you really need to play to level 50 atleast before saying its crap or its good

most of the comments i ve read about conan on here have been fair.

there 3 facts about this game

1/there are some great ideas in it . it looks impressive and the gameplay has some very good innovations in it

2/in its present form it is a pay to play beta . the game is bugged to hell yes but the biggest problem is the game engine .  i m told the bugs are relativly easy to fix which is what funcom are doing now . the game engine will be a lot harder to sort out

3/ the high system specs needed to run it well mean a lot of people are seeing funcoms required specs and are finding its impossible to play ( although i ve tried it on a machine i have thars somewhere in the middle of required and recomended and i did nt find it acceptable even at the lower details) so you really do need a beast of a machine to play it ( of course depending on whats personally acceptable to you).

i m not sure if the rumours about funcom being in trouble financially are true i certainly think they know the product is substandard and thats why they are endvouring to get as much capitol back from game sales and the 2.99 download for the client .

one thing i m certain of conan will be around for a few years even if funcom does go broke (i m sure some ofther company will take it on ). level of subs will proberbly be around those of vanguard or maybe lord of the rings if its lucky .

the games essentially a moderate success . its done well in sales but that does nt appear to be translated into subscriptions . once again a game released too early and with specs that were not in reach of the average home pc (which is what it needs to be able to play on to be a success as an mmo)

nice try but could ve been better