I recently returned and as I didn't want to go back to any of my Alliance 70s I rerolled an Troll Rogue.

Running Wailing Caverns yesterday afternoon with an odd group was very easy. the group make up was:

1. level 20 rogue (dinged 21 midway thru)
2. level 25 Hunter
3. level 22 Hunter
4. Level 20 Hunter
5. Level 16 Warrior (dinged 17 midway thru)

Note no healer and the warrior wasn't really tanking, we just DPSed everything down. Two deaths, we had a bad pull and the warrior went down after the third fang boss and decided not to run back. I died when I stepped into a Fang Druid in the undergrowth in one of the wet bits and pulled a few more, my own fault but a healer would have kept me up/rezed me to save the run back. We lost the level 22 Druid just before the final fang leader so we took him down with two hunter and me no issues and lost a pet on the swanp elemental at the end. Managed to get all my quests completed which was a surprise.

The thing is, this doesn't teach people how to play there class in a group and is why you get so many level 70s without a clue.

 Welll ....thats alot of dps really. the 25 is probably on the top end for that instance to begin with if Im nto mistaken. Not to mention ...the warrior might not be tanking but Im sure 1 of the 3 pets were .... and hunter pets can tank very well or If nothigng else take a beating till everything is dead . And with the amount of dps you guys should have been doing any amount of dmg the pets were taking and you should have had sets of mobs dead in no time. And these days most of the people in those dugeons arent new .... most are experienced doing rerolls such as yourself.

As far as new players not learning anything .... you would be correct but It istnt because the dungeon was made easier. Its mainly because of rerolls, people know the dungeons now , people are twinked out etc etc

*edit* yeah I just looked it up. Its a 15-21 dungeon. Normally when running alts, I go in around 16 or so , 20 is generally my cut off point as I move on to other higher level dungeons.

I assume (dont know for sure) that Wailing Caves is somewhat easier

within the Deadmines instance, it is no longer ALL elites

- many of the miners are nonelite now

Actually I used to 2man WC with a hunter/shammy duo, starting at level 22 we could do the entire instance by ourselves, mostly to farm for the fang set, and it was decent XP.  I don't think WC was ever hard to begin with.

They have made all the low level dungeons much easier, as part of the effort to rush everyone towards outlands

It's a shame really. A lot of people are hitting max level without the slightest clue how to play.

Originally posted by Antipathy

They have made all the low level dungeons much easier, as part of the effort to rush everyone towards outlands

It's a shame really. A lot of people are hitting max level without the slightest clue how to play.

That's correct.

My first character  years ago had 43 playing days (over 1000 hours) until maxed out. Did a lot of all things - but leveling - Bg's all day long. /)). that changed already to 28 days and 23 days with 2nd and 3rd but now ....

Now a rogue got from 1 to 58 in just 7 days (170 hours) and still not even pushing with all professions leveled and a few BG's.

Next time I'll take my time again and will do it really slowly, but I doubt I will see lots of things without controlling the experience bars.

It's a price we pay for the expansions, but next time Blizzard will no longer add levels, the creation of those "achievements" is a first way to broaden the game without resorting to more levels.

The relative ease of set isntance run was due to the fact that you had 3 hunters with 3 pets each over the level of the instance itself, wailing caverns is meant for people around level 18, yea the mobs are 19 / 20 with 21 bosses or whatnot but the base level is 18.

With a 25 hunter that with a decent healer could always have 2manned this, a 22 and a 20 hunter both having pets of equal level dpsing as well, the only people being hit was probably you for out dpsing the pets, the instances are slightly easier but not by much..

About not teaching people their role in a group setting, roles change.. rogues are "sappers" in instances in BC, pre BC theyre just dps, when wotlk comes out who knows? maybe subtle will be the new pve spec, class roles change with each expansion and that was Blizz's idea when slightly dumbing down the leveling process so people can enjoy the expansion when it comes out instead of seeing all the badass 80's running around while theyre still stuck grinding cultists in silithus =p

they maded everything easier faster lvling lower lvl mobs removed alot of elite mobs and just maded them normal mobs cause no one barely groups at low lvl anymore so you can solo your way up to 70

Originally posted by mbd1968

I recently returned and as I didn't want to go back to any of my Alliance 70s I rerolled an Troll Rogue.

Running Wailing Caverns yesterday afternoon with an odd group was very easy. the group make up was:

1. level 20 rogue (dinged 21 midway thru)
2. level 25 Hunter
3. level 22 Hunter
4. Level 20 Hunter
5. Level 16 Warrior (dinged 17 midway thru)

Note no healer and the warrior wasn't really tanking, we just DPSed everything down. Two deaths, we had a bad pull and the warrior went down after the third fang boss and decided not to run back. I died when I stepped into a Fang Druid in the undergrowth in one of the wet bits and pulled a few more, my own fault but a healer would have kept me up/rezed me to save the run back. We lost the level 22 Druid just before the final fang leader so we took him down with two hunter and me no issues and lost a pet on the swanp elemental at the end. Managed to get all my quests completed which was a surprise.

The thing is, this doesn't teach people how to play there class in a group and is why you get so many level 70s without a clue.

 

Hunters at level 20-25 are really effective in raids.  Consider that you didn't really run the instance with 5 toons, but rather 8 since you had 3 pets.  The level 25's pet alone could have probably tanked pretty effectively without any healing whatsoever except for the Hunters heal pet skill.  The instance difficulty really hasn't changed, it's the toons themselves that have become a bit stronger in my opinion.  I find it very easy to run thru instances with a group of 5 and it's really not that difficult to do it with 4 or less.

They did lower the levels of some dungeons a few patches ago.. basically their goal was to have a dungeon have a much tighter level range.. and then have the dungeons stack better so there was better progression.

WC was one of those that had it's level dropped.  I think it used to be like 17-23, and now it is 17-19...  a lvl 25 hunter could probably solo the place if he didn't mind his pet dying a lot.

I don't really think that lower level instances were ever really teaching you about group play. At those levels it is barely even possible to tank as you lack tools. It is rewarding if you do establish a basic group functionality with someone tanking and focused DPS and stuff, but they can be easily done without any of that. Those instances I think were primarily ment for meeting other people and having fun together, and establishing connections and maybe future guilds.

I played a warrior since release. If I remember correctly, the first instance that really required me to seriously tank and a more or less disciplined group for an enjoyable run were Maraudon and Uldaman before that.