WAR (Warhammer Online)

If we're working under the assumption that WAR gets WoW numbers (it won't) then yeah, you'll see the same phenomenon occur where you get forum trolls everywhere talking about how horrible the game is...it's just a side effect of having so many players, some people who try it are bound to hate it...unfortunately many of the people who hate it will have never played it (I slapped down a troll yesterday who was talking about WoW even though he had never even played it and "hated it before it even came out" in his own words)

Once again though, WAR will never have WoW numbers...hell, even a second WoW, or a world of Starcraft would probably not garner the same numbers as WoW has

PS.  WoW is to E-sports as Poker is to athletic competition.  Until WoW has classes that are balanced around one on one, making arena games based upon player skill rather than class composition, it will never be an E-sport, it will only be druids, rogues, and warriors fighting eachother in a small space.

I love DAoC still. I go back to it every now and then and have a blast for a while, on a non ToA server. That is what killed the subs. The game would have kept going on strongly without it.

I believe War will do quite well. I am the kind of person who won't play something that bores me. I haven't had a MMO in a while that has kept me up until 4am playing. I am in the War beta, and I haven't been getting much sleep lately. That is not breaking anything, and you can easily infer what I think, hehe.

Originally posted by Vicksburg

Originally posted by imitator

Originally posted by Vicksburg

Originally posted by Ravkeen

Originally posted by Vicksburg

That's why WOW has the only PVP e-sports competition of all MMORPG's  with thousands of dollars of price money and has a zillion arena movies on the web I suppose.? I suppose gaining thousands of dollars in dozens of competitions doesn't "serve a single puprose"; :)))

Man there are at the moment a few hundred professional PvP players in Wow. Welcome to July 2008 !

 

 

 

 

Wow, seriously? If you didnt cement in everyones minds that you had no clue what you were talking about before, you did just now.

Guild Wars.

Try again.

And if I remember right, Guild Wars had their for cash tourneys a good deal before WoW.

Something you WoW fanatics need to learn, WoW has done NOTHING original, they just copied off of everyone else around them, and the fanboi's and people who never played anything else before just assume that they were pioneers in the field.

GW is not a paid MMORPG. the makers of GW themselevs say they don't consider it a real MMORPG.

If GW had a subscription rate, meaning PAYING to play it, it would be down to a very small user base.

In this it isn't even represented in the official stats of MMORPG's.

http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart7.html

Wait, so now you are changing your statement to invalidate my point? Say it aint so...

You did not say "monthly subscription fee only MMORPGS". And last I checked, guild wars is an online rpg, and its a massively online based game, so its a MMORPG.

But dont let the facts ruin your little tirade about how great WoW is, we wouldnt want you to look foolish or anything as a fanboi, would we?

Also, of course Guild Wars wouldnt be listed in teh above chart, because that chart is for active subscriptions in MMORPGS. Guild Wars doesnt have a subscription required to play, so it wont work.

But my point still stands. WoW was NOT the first MMORPG to have cash tourneys. Not even close.

Please try again though.

Originally posted by Majinash

I just have to point out again that vick says that people will only pay for a grind, not for fun.  thats right, people don't want "fun" in their game, they want to grind for gear.

 

honestly how can anyone say that and not shoot themselves?  a game needs less fun and more grind in order to be good.

 

This... this just blows my mind, that anyone would even pretend to think that way. "no way guys, that game has way too much fun, people won't pay to PLAY a game, they want to run the same dungons/BGs ect over and over to get their tier 56 gear, and thats the only reason people pay for MMOs"

 

gah, I need to go put some salt in an open wound or something.

You say: Wow is pure grind.
 

I SAY WOW is pure fun tuning your character.

And as there are more than 10 million players having FUN in tuning your character in Wow, it shows it succeeds.

You make a definition of GRIND, while all players of Wow who like it know the grind in Wow is very limited, because tuning your character in acquiring gear is NOT grind.

You manipulate (on purpose) the definition of grind: Grind is mindlessly bashing mobs in the hope for a drop te sell or to have better gear.

This kind of grinding does hardly exists in WOW, because WOW has so much varied plays to offer, be it solo, casual, raid, dungeons ,heroic dungeons, battlegrounds ,daily quests in ALL fields including world PvP, professions, arena, you name it.

If this is ALL grind than every other MMORPG outthere is even more grind than Wow.

Including War.

You are just dishonest in redefining  a word that is as hollow as it sounds.

War is basically a blend previous games in the same genre.  Its not wow, but the comparisons will occur given how the game looks,and plays. It resembles DAOC more then anything probably, from the standpoint of overall gameplay, just with the warhammer/wow cartoon universe as a setting.

Will the game be successful ? its to early to tell, but like other in the public eye MMO"s its getting alot of hype, which will be both a benifit and a drawback. Hype is good because it creates more early consumers, at the same time it tends to create alot more issues as players realize the game cant live up to all the hype.

War will ultimately fall in the 500k - 1 million sold range for a MMO early on, and its playerbase wont jump significantly for awile. Its not going to pull 50% of wow's NA playerbase. What it will pull are alot of people who like organized team PVP, people bored with WoW, people let down with AOC and other MMO players who are waiting for the next best thing to come along.

The biggest issue with MMO's these days, is they hold very little long term appeal for the masses because they are trying to reach out to the "casual" player in order to gain more market share. This always has the impact of creating a shorter life span because players reach the "end" faster. its evident if you look at Most of the western MMO's released since 2004.  LOTRO, EQ2, WoW, TR, AOC are all very casual friendly games.

Originally posted by Vicksburg

Originally posted by Majinash

I just have to point out again that vick says that people will only pay for a grind, not for fun.  thats right, people don't want "fun" in their game, they want to grind for gear.

 

honestly how can anyone say that and not shoot themselves?  a game needs less fun and more grind in order to be good.

 

This... this just blows my mind, that anyone would even pretend to think that way. "no way guys, that game has way too much fun, people won't pay to PLAY a game, they want to run the same dungons/BGs ect over and over to get their tier 56 gear, and thats the only reason people pay for MMOs"

 

gah, I need to go put some salt in an open wound or something.

You say: Wow is pure grind.
 

I SAY WOW is pure fun tuning your character.

And as there are more than 10 million players having FUN in tuning your character in Wow, it shows it succeeds.

You make a definition of GRIND, while all players of Wow who like it know the grind in Wow is very limited, because tuning your character in acquiring gear is NOT grind.

You manipulate (on purpose) the definition of grind: Grind is mindlessly bashing mobs in the hope for a drop te sell or to have better gear.

This kind of grinding does hardly exists in WOW, because WOW has so much varied plays to offer, be it solo, casual, raid, dungeons ,heroic dungeons, battlegrounds ,daily quests in ALL fields including world PvP, professions, arena, you name it.

If this is ALL grind than every other MMORPG outthere is even more grind than Wow.

Including War.

You are just dishonest in redefining  a word that is as hollow as it sounds.

i think that is the difference with how some people see WOW.  fine tuning a character, ie gearing them out, seems to take away from the character and turns them into a walking item.  i think it is all a grind, it just depends on the game.  i guess my point is that WOW is a MMOrpg, where say LOTRO is a mmoRPG.  the players are doing the same thing, but their point of view is based on how the game presents itself.  my hope is that WAR falls somewhere between the two

Sorry, you said Fun isn't what sells MMOs, its grinding for gear.  and no, grinding isn't just bashing in mobs heads, its mindless repetition of tasks to move foward.  I don't want to have to run kara 20 times to get geared up for the next tier so I can run that 30 times and so on.  all the things you list are a grind.

Crafting? 90% of gear you craft doesn't sell, its just a grind.  Grind the mats, grind the profession till you max out, then make 2-3 BoP items.

Daily quests? log on, grind your daily quests, log off, repeat every day.

Heroics? thats just a grind for badges.

BGs? grind for honor to get Season 1/2 gear

Arena? grind for arena points for S 3/4 gear

the list goes on.  WoW is a grind game first and foremost.  before they added BGs or honor, world PvP was FUN.  thats right, no rewards for PVP, you just did it because you enjoyed it.  and people PAID to just play around.

WAR is built to send you into some fun PvP till you get bored and quit the game.  based on the person that could be weeks months or years, but thats what the devs are after.  And thats what people are excited about.  you don't need to do the same thing over and over just to get better gear, or stats, or levels or anything.  You just do whats fun till it's not fun anymore and then you're done.

Sorry that you think games are made to grind, but people don't agree with you.  WoW has a huge turnover rate.  People play they love it, they grind it out, get bored and quit.  its a fine game don't get me wrong, but blizz turns everything fun into a grind.  I still enjoy BGs, I just ignore the honor and play around so its not a grind to me.

You can say I'm twisting words, but I'm not.  You are a crazy wow fanboi who thinks its the perfect game and WAR sucks despite you having never played it.  Everyone can see it by how crazy you are about a game.  But just because you love WoW more than life itself doesn't mean the game is good, just that you like it.,

Originally posted by Majinash

Sorry, you said Fun isn't what sells MMOs, its grinding for gear.  and no, grinding isn't just bashing in mobs heads, its mindless repetition of tasks to move foward.  I don't want to have to run kara 20 times to get geared up for the next tier so I can run that 30 times and so on.  all the things you list are a grind.

 

Crafting? 90% of gear you craft doesn't sell, its just a grind.  Grind the mats, grind the profession till you max out, then make 2-3 BoP items.

 

Daily quests? log on, grind your daily quests, log off, repeat every day.

 

Heroics? thats just a grind for badges.

 

BGs? grind for honor to get Season 1/2 gear

 

Arena? grind for arena points for S 3/4 gear

 

the list goes on.  WoW is a grind game first and foremost.  before they added BGs or honor, world PvP was FUN.  thats right, no rewards for PVP, you just did it because you enjoyed it.  and people PAID to just play around.

 

WAR is built to send you into some fun PvP till you get bored and quit the game.  based on the person that could be weeks months or years, but thats what the devs are after.  And thats what people are excited about.  you don't need to do the same thing over and over just to get better gear, or stats, or levels or anything.  You just do whats fun till it's not fun anymore and then you're done.

 

Sorry that you think games are made to grind, but people don't agree with you.  WoW has a huge turnover rate.  People play they love it, they grind it out, get bored and quit.  its a fine game don't get me wrong, but blizz turns everything fun into a grind.  I still enjoy BGs, I just ignore the honor and play around so its not a grind to me.

 

You can say I'm twisting words, but I'm not.  You are a crazy wow fanboi who thinks its the perfect game and WAR sucks despite you having never played it.  Everyone can see it by how crazy you are about a game.  But just because you love WoW more than life itself doesn't mean the game is good, just that you like it.,

Why don't you say that your thread is a grind fest. I guess you even consider your work as a grind fest.
 

And I never said WAR sucks btw...

Because I couldn't even play it.

But I said there are 4 elements in it that will hamper its success, despite what you fanboys want to believe. I am too experienced in MMORPG's to fall for the hype these days. So I watch and predict.

It wont be as dead as Conan after its arrival I think, but Mythic could have created something far better if they would have changed these 4 elements mentioned above.

And Wow is only in it because the title of this thread was War=Wow and IF you want to be compared to the Beatles , well better have some arguments better than a meaningless word like "grind".

I suppose the songs of The Beatles were also grind titles. :))))