Originally posted by Briansho

Pirates of the Burning Sea

Isn't FFA.

Lineage 2 is ffa with a steep level curve.

Originally posted by Venger

Eve is concentual pvp.  You don't have to go to lower security systems if you don't want to.  Not nocking Eve just stating facts.

I gave Eve a try and I really wanted to like it but it just didn't do it for me.

You are not stating facts. There are many ways pirates can get ya in high sec:

1) Anyway in group with ya can kill ya

2) Anyone can wardec your corp/alliance and kill you ANYWHERE

3) pirates can jump in yer mission with ya, steal your loot, if you aggress them they can kill ya

4) pirates will scan down yer ship and if you hauling a fortune and not warp to 0 they will kill ya and take it all. a guy jusyt lost 200mil he was hauling a Hulk in a hauler and the pirates got him

EVE is that game above that is what many of us play it is straight up FFA

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by Venger

Eve is concentual pvp.  You don't have to go to lower security systems if you don't want to.  Not nocking Eve just stating facts.

I gave Eve a try and I really wanted to like it but it just didn't do it for me.

 

You are not stating facts. There are many ways pirates can get ya in high sec:

1) Anyway in group with ya can kill ya

2) Anyone can wardec your corp/alliance and kill you ANYWHERE

3) pirates can jump in yer mission with ya, steal your loot, if you aggress them they can kill ya

4) pirates will scan down yer ship and if you hauling a fortune and not warp to 0 they will kill ya and take it all. a guy jusyt lost 200mil he was hauling a Hulk in a hauler and the pirates got him

 

EVE is that game above that is what many of us play it is straight up FFA

All true.   Sad too, because if it wasn't for the ganking I'd still be playing EVE today.   That game had lots of cool features I enjoyed, but once I found out I couldn't even mine the best ores without opening myself up to being mugged, that was it for me.

It was a frustrating realization, but whaddya gonna do?    Yes, I play 'carebear' style, but so do many others and eve is sadly no longer getting my monthly fee because if it.   If they ever do decide to go more than one server, and offer perhaps a pve or only-consensual pvp server, I'll gladly rejoin.

You do realize that in a good FFA PvP game you'll end up with a logrithmic leveling scale*, heavily crafting and resource based**, and maybe some Guilding tossed in+

Basically a pure FFA PvP game is not a world like EvE.   Sure they share and edge or two but they are not the same.  Though I really do need to digress with your idea of stealth mechanics they aren't something that was ever meant for PvP or makes even the remotest of sense for it(yes I appreciate your sarcasm, but I'll enjoy correcting what a sane 'pure FFA' game would have, rather than what teh hardcorzor basementers want).

*skill based system where at most you're only bringing a handfull of those skills into combat.   so to get to the maxium power tier(character statistics) it would just take you a couple of days maybe a week, but to unlock every option you'll be there for a long time even though you won't be able to use all of them in one battle.   While a world like EvE/Wurm does have some of this you'll literally be building up your character up over years and in a traditional MMO linear/exponetial power tier type style, This investment is also designed so you don't go pyscho insane like you can in a FFA PvP game.

**while wandering resource collecting and just generally keeping people moving about, also maximizing the value of targets at the same time.   Also provides ways to replace gear lost, or to recycle gear you can't sell and don't want to use.

+not really needed for a pure FFA PvP game, but provides a great way for the fraction of the remaining side to get loot from both allies and enemies.  and provide a reason for attacking someone not that it's needed

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by Venger

Eve is concentual pvp.  You don't have to go to lower security systems if you don't want to.  Not nocking Eve just stating facts.

I gave Eve a try and I really wanted to like it but it just didn't do it for me.

 

You are not stating facts. There are many ways pirates can get ya in high sec:

1) Anyway in group with ya can kill ya

2) Anyone can wardec your corp/alliance and kill you ANYWHERE

3) pirates can jump in yer mission with ya, steal your loot, if you aggress them they can kill ya

4) pirates will scan down yer ship and if you hauling a fortune and not warp to 0 they will kill ya and take it all. a guy jusyt lost 200mil he was hauling a Hulk in a hauler and the pirates got him

 

EVE is that game above that is what many of us play it is straight up FFA

 

All true.   Sad too, because if it wasn't for the ganking I'd still be playing EVE today.   That game had lots of cool features I enjoyed, but once I found out I couldn't even mine the best ores without opening myself up to being mugged, that was it for me.

It was a frustrating realization, but whaddya gonna do?    Yes, I play 'carebear' style, but so do many others and eve is sadly no longer getting my monthly fee because if it.   If they ever do decide to go more than one server, and offer perhaps a pve or only-consensual pvp server, I'll gladly rejoin.

Like you I play 'carebear' style most of the time (not all but most of the time). I live in nullsec and its incredibly safe if you watch the Intel and Local chat. I've been living in nullsec for months and months never been ganked once. Only one time did I die and that was because I undocked from station before checking my local chat window (local system for reds).

They make it really easy to live. I've lived through many wardecs. Of course I'm a member of a nice Alliance and that is how I roll.

Lastly, dont mine for ore. Loot it from shoip wrecks like the rest of us unless for some reason you adore mining (in which no one really does miners tend to quit more then anyone)

<edit> and no man EVE must stay 1 server that what make it special. I have honestly met bout 4-5 people in real life that play EVE. It is so great we all on one server. you have no idea how convient it is not having to transfer servers to play together. At all times we in same channel and communicate with each other. This is why I been wit EVE for a long time now and no plans to leave. It is only true MMO besides maybe Guild Wars (yes seriously IRONIC GW is not an MMO but it is 1 server)

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by Venger

Eve is concentual pvp.  You don't have to go to lower security systems if you don't want to.  Not nocking Eve just stating facts.

I gave Eve a try and I really wanted to like it but it just didn't do it for me.

 

You are not stating facts. There are many ways pirates can get ya in high sec:

1) Anyway in group with ya can kill ya

2) Anyone can wardec your corp/alliance and kill you ANYWHERE

3) pirates can jump in yer mission with ya, steal your loot, if you aggress them they can kill ya

4) pirates will scan down yer ship and if you hauling a fortune and not warp to 0 they will kill ya and take it all. a guy jusyt lost 200mil he was hauling a Hulk in a hauler and the pirates got him

 

EVE is that game above that is what many of us play it is straight up FFA

Well I can't really dispute your claims with absolute certainty like I say I didn't get very far into Eve before I realized it wasn't for me.

But,

1 you can choose who to group with.

2 you can choose not to join a corp.

3 yes people can grief but it is still your choice to say f it and fly away.

4 if you attack someone in a secure sector don't you get attacked?  I didn't get far so maybe I just don't fully get eve.

Btw I wonder if some of us misrepresent EVE. Yeah it is FFA pvp but it has consequences. Hard to explain but put it this way---->

When many of us say we want "Free for All PVP" some of us want something like EVE Online- it gives us the freedom to takeover land, build stations, live together, and enforce order. It gives us all this freedom

I am what you call an "Alliance Pilot". I participate only in Alliance pvp meaning I do not pirate. Instead, we "mark" all of our enemy alliances and alert one another when we see a hostile in "Intel" channels

When a hostile enters our systems, we have covert ops pilots positioned to relay this Intel.

EVE players usually have printouts of maps on their desks while they play. This way when a KOS pirate is broadcast you 'get to a safespot' (see goonfleet safespotting video for newbies).

I swear on everything I died way more in WoW pvp servers then I do in EVE. I hop in my little Taranis and park in front of a gate waiting on pirates (gate camping). EVE has many Bottlenecks giving us the power to lock hostile forces out

So it's not 'choatic' FFA PVP. Many gamers, like me, we want FFA PVP + Faction PVP. This is why some of us are also willing to try games like WAR. The only downside to WAR is that like in WoW your true enemy may be on your same side

I hope this explains why some of us like FFA pvp. it gives us great Guild VS Guild PVP. I hope that is clear. That is what I love---- Guild Vs Guild PVP

Originally posted by gillvane1

We need something like Shadowbane, only not a buggy broken graphically ugly mess.

Something that all the "hardcore" gankers and griefers are always asking for.

It needs to be FFA. You can attack anyone, anywhere. And on top of being able to kill anyone, anywhere, the leveling curve needs to be steep. And just to taunt players, make leveling much easier if you're in a group. Of course, if you do group, someone in the group will probably stab you in the back when your hit points are way down.

Of course, make players lootable. Not just one or two items, but be able to strip someone and take as much gear as you can carry.

And, you should be able to gank newbs, and anyone that is 10 levels above you or more, can totally pwn you, and you can't even do one point of damage to them.

Put everything in it, like stealth, crowd control, and the ability to one shot another player with the right set up. All the stuff that most players cry about.

The graphics dont' need to be bleeding edge, because the sort of players that like this game are more concerned about gameplay than graphics.

We just need one of these games, and we can send all the "hardcore" players that complain about RvR or carebears, or whatever, to that game.

There really isn't anything out, or even in development that I know of, that fits this bill. Not just an after thought FFA server, but a game actually designed to be like this, a real pain in the arse for the casual player that doesn't want to get ganked every 5 minutes. I think there's enough players looking for this sort of gameplay, that it could make a buck. It's not going to be really popular, and it's definitely a niche, but I think it's a niche that needs to be filled.

 No offense to the griefers and gankers out there. Seriously, someone needs to make this game.

If it was full loot PvP it cant have levels.  It has to be skill based like UO, face of mankind, darkfall, ect.

Mortal Online...

Originally posted by Venger

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by Venger

Eve is concentual pvp.  You don't have to go to lower security systems if you don't want to.  Not nocking Eve just stating facts.

I gave Eve a try and I really wanted to like it but it just didn't do it for me.

 

You are not stating facts. There are many ways pirates can get ya in high sec:

1) Anyway in group with ya can kill ya

2) Anyone can wardec your corp/alliance and kill you ANYWHERE

3) pirates can jump in yer mission with ya, steal your loot, if you aggress them they can kill ya

4) pirates will scan down yer ship and if you hauling a fortune and not warp to 0 they will kill ya and take it all. a guy jusyt lost 200mil he was hauling a Hulk in a hauler and the pirates got him

 

EVE is that game above that is what many of us play it is straight up FFA

Well I can't really dispute your claims with absolute certainty like I say I didn't get very far into Eve before I realized it wasn't for me.

But,

1 you can choose who to group with.

2 you can choose not to join a corp.

3 yes people can grief but it is still your choice to say f it and fly away.

4 if you attack someone in a secure sector don't you get attacked?  I didn't get far so maybe I just don't fully get eve.

Hi I hope my post wasn't too abrupt. Allow me to elaborate. You are correct on all points.

But if you attack an innocent person in high sec Concord will blow up your ship. However, pirates will simply have a friend loot your corpse. Pirates employ cheap T1 BCs (like Brutix) from what I gather which is nearly fully insurable. So they weigh their loss (risk vs reward) against what they have to gain.

So even if you never join a Corp you can be attacked

I hope that was clear and I apologize if my post was rude (I just really like EVE a bit too much)

Originally posted by gillvane1

We need something like Shadowbane, only not a buggy broken graphically ugly mess.

Something that all the "hardcore" gankers and griefers are always asking for.

It needs to be FFA. You can attack anyone, anywhere. And on top of being able to kill anyone, anywhere, the leveling curve needs to be steep. And just to taunt players, make leveling much easier if you're in a group. Of course, if you do group, someone in the group will probably stab you in the back when your hit points are way down.

Of course, make players lootable. Not just one or two items, but be able to strip someone and take as much gear as you can carry.

And, you should be able to gank newbs, and anyone that is 10 levels above you or more, can totally pwn you, and you can't even do one point of damage to them.

Put everything in it, like stealth, crowd control, and the ability to one shot another player with the right set up. All the stuff that most players cry about.

The graphics dont' need to be bleeding edge, because the sort of players that like this game are more concerned about gameplay than graphics.

We just need one of these games, and we can send all the "hardcore" players that complain about RvR or carebears, or whatever, to that game.

There really isn't anything out, or even in development that I know of, that fits this bill. Not just an after thought FFA server, but a game actually designed to be like this, a real pain in the arse for the casual player that doesn't want to get ganked every 5 minutes. I think there's enough players looking for this sort of gameplay, that it could make a buck. It's not going to be really popular, and it's definitely a niche, but I think it's a niche that needs to be filled.

 No offense to the griefers and gankers out there. Seriously, someone needs to make this game.

 You just pretty much described DarkFall to the T. Not sure the 100-200K ganker/griefers out there will really enjoy being ganked and greifed by other griefers/gankers but its worht a try!

DarkFall isn't a pure FFAer game, the developers have it planned to be more along the lines of EvE NullSec game for nearly the entire map.  with a tiny bit of lowsec near the capitals since people can't claim the nearby area and that the fighting over the trade hubs of the capitals will be intense and often.

Other than that I'm going to be going deep wilderness setting up viaable camp while I wait to figure out what handfull of towns are going to form withing a few KM radius.   And obviously join one.   I'd actually end up very surprised if my camp does end up raided before I move on.   That's just how the game mechanics crumble.

Look at me having a unplanned plan for a game that's near vapor ware.   if it does come out I'd be in line though not near the first.

Originally posted by vajuras

Hi I hope my post wasn't too abrupt. Allow me to elaborate. You are correct on all points.

But if you attack an innocent person in high sec Concord will blow up your ship. However, pirates will simply have a friend loot your corpse. Pirates employ cheap T1 BCs (like Brutix) from what I gather which is nearly fully insurable. So they weigh their loss (risk vs reward) against what they have to gain.

 

So even if you never join a Corp you can be attacked

I hope that was clear and I apologize if my post was rude (I just really like EVE a bit too much)

Ah ok I see, cheap pansy tactics. 

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by SwampRob

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by Venger

Eve is concentual pvp.  You don't have to go to lower security systems if you don't want to.  Not nocking Eve just stating facts.

I gave Eve a try and I really wanted to like it but it just didn't do it for me.

 

You are not stating facts. There are many ways pirates can get ya in high sec:

1) Anyway in group with ya can kill ya

2) Anyone can wardec your corp/alliance and kill you ANYWHERE

3) pirates can jump in yer mission with ya, steal your loot, if you aggress them they can kill ya

4) pirates will scan down yer ship and if you hauling a fortune and not warp to 0 they will kill ya and take it all. a guy jusyt lost 200mil he was hauling a Hulk in a hauler and the pirates got him

 

EVE is that game above that is what many of us play it is straight up FFA

 

All true.   Sad too, because if it wasn't for the ganking I'd still be playing EVE today.   That game had lots of cool features I enjoyed, but once I found out I couldn't even mine the best ores without opening myself up to being mugged, that was it for me.

It was a frustrating realization, but whaddya gonna do?    Yes, I play 'carebear' style, but so do many others and eve is sadly no longer getting my monthly fee because if it.   If they ever do decide to go more than one server, and offer perhaps a pve or only-consensual pvp server, I'll gladly rejoin.

 

Like you I play 'carebear' style most of the time (not all but most of the time). I live in nullsec and its incredibly safe if you watch the Intel and Local chat. I've been living in nullsec for months and months never been ganked once. Only one time did I die and that was because I undocked from station before checking my local chat window (local system for reds).

 

They make it really easy to live. I've lived through many wardecs. Of course I'm a member of a nice Alliance and that is how I roll.

 

Lastly, dont mine for ore. Loot it from shoip wrecks like the rest of us unless for some reason you adore mining (in which no one really does miners tend to quit more then anyone)

<edit> and no man EVE must stay 1 server that what make it special. I have honestly met bout 4-5 people in real life that play EVE. It is so great we all on one server. you have no idea how convient it is not having to transfer servers to play together. At all times we in same channel and communicate with each other. This is why I been wit EVE for a long time now and no plans to leave. It is only true MMO besides maybe Guild Wars (yes seriously IRONIC GW is not an MMO but it is 1 server)

I agree that making it more than one server would radically alter the game, and that's not what I'm after.   I simply loathe  pvp and the fact that I can be merrily minding my own business and be attacked by another player without provacation is utterly unacceptable to me.     I was merely suggesting a way to avoid pvp entirely.    Also, I tend to play the lone wolf in games, rarely grouping, and in EVE you really need a gang (alliance) to watch your back.    It's a shame, because it's a refreshing, wonderful game otherwise.   But I refuse to risk, even once, losing a huge amount of coin (and time) to some greedy bully.     If EVE could somehow offer me that safety guarantee, I'd sign up for a lifetime membership.   But I suspect that that change, too, would alter the game too much for many who currently love it.

Originally posted by gillvane1

Originally posted by go4broke

They won't play it :P

 

They won't have the people who don't want that to terrorize.

 

Actually, they WILL play it. Sure, they'd like it better if they could terrorize players that don't want this sort of gameplay, but they WILL terrorize each other. Sure, subscription numbers will be low compared to most AAA titles, but I think it would work, since you'd be the ONLY hardcore game in town.

The DAoC FFA servers were god awful to play on, but still people played.

FFA in DAOC was ok but it wasnt overly popular like the wide open PVP in Old Frontiers. I don't think there is enough of a playerbase to have a full on hardcore PVP game out there to even warrant design. Most people prefer PVP with an objective vs  playing Quake 4  and thats pretty much what FFA servers represent. It gets old very fast just ganking and griefing all the time at least for me it did. Shadowbane on the other hand being able to build your own city and such rocked. TO bad they had such a crappy piece of software for a genious idea of a game.

    Wasnt UO pretty much a gankfest in its early years?? Didnt they have trouble getting a solid player base until they opened the non PVP area?? Like a few posters said earlier I think the best format for FFA PVP is a FPS style of game......It would probably play better on a console than on a PC......

They could base it on Escape From New York.  Throw everyone on a prison island and let them prey on each other.   Snake Pliskin is on a 72 hour respawn but drops an uber laser sighted .44 magnum.

The problem with the idea has been brought up a million times.  The type of player that would make up the vast majority of the initial population of this game, the type of player that professes to loathe the "carebears" and preach his/her own hardcoreness will hate to play the victim role.  And guess what, if you put 1000 murderers on a freakin island with free reign and no other victims, most of those murderers are going to end up being the victims. 

Post Tramel UO is a perfect example.  If as many people loved being ganked then as they claim to do now, Feluccia would never have had a population issue.  SuperKillX ran out of miners to kill, got killed by UltimaSupaKillaXXV who also ran out of miners to kill, and ran off to Tramel as CareBearsSuxVII (fka SuperKillX) to profess his leetness and complain that he no longer had victims (and has become the victim). 

Originally posted by gillvane1

We need something like Shadowbane, only not a buggy broken graphically ugly mess.

Something that all the "hardcore" gankers and griefers are always asking for.

It needs to be FFA. You can attack anyone, anywhere. And on top of being able to kill anyone, anywhere, the leveling curve needs to be steep. And just to taunt players, make leveling much easier if you're in a group. Of course, if you do group, someone in the group will probably stab you in the back when your hit points are way down.

Of course, make players lootable. Not just one or two items, but be able to strip someone and take as much gear as you can carry.

And, you should be able to gank newbs, and anyone that is 10 levels above you or more, can totally pwn you, and you can't even do one point of damage to them.

Put everything in it, like stealth, crowd control, and the ability to one shot another player with the right set up. All the stuff that most players cry about.

The graphics dont' need to be bleeding edge, because the sort of players that like this game are more concerned about gameplay than graphics.

We just need one of these games, and we can send all the "hardcore" players that complain about RvR or carebears, or whatever, to that game.

There really isn't anything out, or even in development that I know of, that fits this bill. Not just an after thought FFA server, but a game actually designed to be like this, a real pain in the arse for the casual player that doesn't want to get ganked every 5 minutes. I think there's enough players looking for this sort of gameplay, that it could make a buck. It's not going to be really popular, and it's definitely a niche, but I think it's a niche that needs to be filled.

 No offense to the griefers and gankers out there. Seriously, someone needs to make this game.

A game just like you are talking about will appear when there are many enough people willing to spend their monney for playing such game.

Originally posted by GormandY

Originally posted by Catizone

Originally posted by GormandY

Shadowbane? That game was weak.

We need Darkfall baby!

 

But you've had it for 7 years..  It's called ForumFall.

Darkfall is played out vaporware that is worse than Shadowbane.

See my avatar for a reality check.

 

ForumFall? Bah, a bunch of guys that think they're hardcore.

Worse than Shadowbane? It probably never will see the light of day, so you cant really make a comparison.

 

I never said it WILL release, and I never said it WONT.

 

What I meant to say was, we need something like Darkfall. Period.

Forumfall use to be a place where true hardcore pvp/rpg came but that time is long gone, its now infested with 90% carebears mostly comming from games like wow, almost everyday ex-wow players asking to make darkfall more like wow, its sickening but thats reality these days on forumfall.
 

And OP your not realy hardcore you prolly one of those come with big mouth ingame and when your killed go to forum and whine and cry.

But if you wait for a good opem pvp game with full loot.

Darkfall comming soon to a pc near you!

Originally posted by winter

 

 You just pretty much described DarkFall to the T. Not sure the 100-200K ganker/griefers out there will really enjoy being ganked and greifed by other griefers/gankers but its worht a try!

Darkfall is going to have an honor system. That means consequences for killing people which is utterly carebear, trammel, pathetic. There's only one Shadowbane.