Final Fantasy XI

Hi all,

I'm a long-time fan/player of FFXI, having started at the NA PC launch.

In the the time since then, FFXI has grown by leaps and bounds. I think it's safe to say that anyone who has played the game and reached the higher level content would agree... the game is massive.

Lately, though, I'm wondering if that's been a blessing or a curse.

I had a conversation with a friend last night who has also played since launch (started the day after me, actually) and he brought up something that I hadn't considered, but when I thought about it, made sense.

He said, basically, that with all the content SE's added - Assault, Salvage, Einherjar, Campaign, Nyzul Isle (technically Assault, but very different), BCNMs, ISNMs, ZNMs, KSNMs, Limbus, Sky, Sea, HNMs, and on and on... On top of the story arcs for FFXI, Zilart, CoP, ToAU and now WoTG... not to mention farming, crafting, leveling, harvesting, digging, etc... it makes the game feel like it's spreading the content, and hence,  the players a bit too thin.

To sum it up in his words, "The game is starting to feel like SE has lost their focus".

To put it another way... It's almost the exact opposite problem other MMOs have of "not enough content"; too many people with too little to do. In FFXI, it's more a problem of "too many different activities with not enough people to do them all". With all the different activities, players find themselves being part of different linkshells with scheduled days/evenings to do their "runs"... for Sky, Dynamis, Assault, and so forth. As a result, many players find it difficult to find people to do other activities - like story arc missions and so forth.

It's really manifesting in a way that my friend, myself and others I know are finding very disturbing...

The most recent and, it seems, biggest wrench in the gears is Campaign Battle.

It's a brilliant concept. Go into the past to the time of the Crystal War that set the stage for the game in the first place, take part in the different story arcs and, via Campaign Battle, take part in the battles against the beastmen for control over different areas.

Where it's a problem is that it has become a "free ticket" for many players to level up without risk - or without actually *playing*.

For those not familiar with it, in Campaign Battle, you obtain what's called an "Allied Tag" (or Allied something... lol I think it's "tag"). So long as you have that tag active, you can participate in campaign without fear of losing xp if you die. You are rewarded xp at the end of the campaign battle based on your contribution, be it fighting or healing/raising/buffing. So... it's really a "win/win" for the players.

The first bit of trouble that came about was that players immediately began power-leveling their characters to 75, often gaining 10-20 levels, or more, in the process. There's a couple downsides to this:

A: More people leveling solely through campaign = less people available for normal xp parties.
B: In campaign, your skill levels do not increase. So if you start Campaign at level 60 and do only that until level 75, your skills are still where they were at level 60. So now you have 15 levels of skill-ups to make up for. A "sacrifice" many are willing to make, in the name of leveling faster.

That in itself is bad enough... But it's taken a turn for the even worse lately..

People have found that if they sub Bard with any job, the can simply get their Allied Tag, stay by the NPC that assigns it and do nothing but buff themselves and others for the entire campaign battle. They never have to get close to a mob... At the end, they receive xp... for doing, basically, nothing.

Only on rare occasion will mobs come over to that spot to kill them. When that happens, no big deal, they raise each other... which means even more xp for them at the end, for raising a fallen comrade. I'm seeing characters in their *20s* out there now, standing by the NPC, doing their thing. A level 20 has no business anywhere near a Campaign Battle if they're looking to actually participate, which of course, they're not.

So.. on top of leaving fewer people available for normal xp parties, these people aren't even helping in Campaign, where it is often needed.

It's an obvious abuse of the system and most people agree that SE is eventually going to have to do something about it. Because it is, in short, slowly killing the game.

This comes back to SE losing focus. Their goal for FFXI from the start was to have a game that was focused primarily on teamwork and group effort to succeed. Among other examples of things they've done, Campaign itself seems to be enabling players to completely by-pass and undermine that focus.

Too Many Activities + Ways For People To Level Without Partying = Fewer people available for actual xp parties and other group-oriented activities = FFXI losing what most people came to love it for.

Thoughts?

I think you have to first start by remember that this is a Japanese MMO; you are comparing it to Western MMOs. The Japanese cultrure is very much one of the whole and the family. The wants of a group is out weighted by the wants of the one. The game is really only massive on the scale of a single person looking at it:

• "Omg there are no tanks I can't get a party"
• "This item I want drops in a BCNM, I don't want to shout for hours"
• "CoP is too hard because no one wants to do it"

I mean when you look at it from that perpective alone you are really looking at an ant climbing a mountain. I mean how many hours does it truly take to kill Absolute Virtue, you honestly have to take shifts. To an individual that is nuts, to a team (and THAT my friend is the aspect of this game that many of us Westerners don't understand) it isn't a hard concept. You look at football for instance you have the offense, the defense and the speical team and collectivly you play a game. When you have to take shift for Absolute Virtue is it really the same thing. That group mentality is what the game is based around and that is why it seems so massive. If you can't find a party, get a group of friends you know and decide to level something up together as a whole and support each other as a team.

There are a lot of differnt things to do and you just have to pick and choose what you want to do. The problem is the linkshell community how it pertains to a Western Hyper Notoriuos Monster Link Shell (WHNMLS). In this case you have one leader who wants the best equipment there is out there so they make a shell and run the shell ragged until they get what they want then the quit because they are burnt out. It isn't about what the group want to do it is what the indivudal wants. You should be free to pick and choose what you want to do when you want to do it.

I like how my Dynamis shell is set up. If you are there you get points and if you are not you don't get any. You spend your points to get items (makes it most fair for people who are there constantly). I don't HAVE to show up for any one dynamis run. If i do I don't lose lotting rights or anything, I just don't get points for that run. It is a great system that gives me the freedom to jump in and out and choose differnt activities.

In the standard model of the WHNMLS you need to be in the group at all time and you can only choose what someone tells you to do at that time. Because you DO want to improve your character (everyone does) you stay in the group so your actions are rewarded, but in the long run you realize that you are just getting thrown the scraps.

As far as the missions and such. You have a group of people who play this game (especially on Asura) who want to be the first to do everything because they feel important in doing so. I am only really like this with Missions because I am in the game for the story anymore and the questing and leveling is just something to do until the next missions come out. I --  heaven forbid -- has something in real life to do the day of the last update and most of the LS that I was in at the time had it done and would not go back and help. Why, because the leader had it done and I'm not as a** kisser.

With the list of stuff you have here there is one factor in deciding what happens. Money. It isn't that there is too much to do it is there isn't enough profit in doing them. Missions are only profitable when the last one comes out and the big reward is introduced. Thus people are in three groups: People who NEED to do them first, people who do them just for the rewards, and those people who missed the two waves that shout forever.

BCNM KSNM ISNM most of the profit has been bled out of them so why do them anymore. How many shouts do you see for something other than OU, Up in Arms, ODS, or the Jade Somethingorother 3000? That is where the money is so that is what people do. CRAFTING you can't craft for a profit unless you farm up all yoru goods. NYZUL ISLE and EINHERJAR too hard waste of time. ASSAULT only do the same ones all the time because they are easy. HARVESTING, DIGGING >.> ... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight need I say anything.

SALVAGE has some of the best gear so people want to do that. SKY is like the baby good gear anymore so that isn't done very much. Those things you need some money for which is where the FARMING is done and typically it is only done on a few things that are the most profitable.

You do LEVELING and CAMPAIGN when you have nothing else to do and you are jsut blowing time. I mean it is easy to just sit in Bastok Market [S] and wait for a campaign battle to start. No profit in taking over the other areas so we'll jsut wait for the easy thing. This can be examplified very easiily when it takes a week or two to recover the AC. The though process is: "I'm level 75 I don't need to merit right now let someone else do the work"

I don't think there are too little people (I can only speak for Asura now). I think there could be more people but the major influx of peopel hat could have come and they really lost peopel aroudn the RMT era. And there isn't too much content as I said above, it is just not profitable to do some of the other stuff anymore. I  mean i know people who just throw away BS and KS because they won't go do any because there is no profit in doing them.

There SHOULD be differnt shells with differnt schedules. You need to find out what is most imporant/fun for you and go do that. One of the things this game does it is tries to follow real life (example: we don't know why things happen in life which is why they keep hidden effects hidden). One saturday night soon you will come to the point when you could spend it with your best friends or some really really hot girl or sit in and raid LIMBUS in FFXI (and i swear to God if you choose FFXI over the hot girl I am gonna find you knock some sense into you). When you think there isn't enough time in the day to do everything it is either you have no focus or you are mixed up with one of the WHNMLS i mentioned above.

Campaign Battle is a great thing from the western side of the ball. Finally the individual can do something while LFP this is a great great thing for sure for everyone. I would LOVE them to do something where the present is effected by what happens in the past. Right now -- like i said before -- everyone from Bastok sits in Bastok Market [S] and waits for campaign battle to start. Bastok owns one zone, Windy owns one zone, Sandy owns 3-5. The reason Sandy is owns more is because there was so many people who went over there after the update when everyone lost everything ... Sandy had 1 extra zone and a lot of people from Bastok was like "Screw this I'm going to Sandy" and they all did ... again ... the easy simple thing to do.

I don't think it is quite the free ticket. It is graded so the lower levels get less exp. I can get 1000+ exp per tag on my 65+ jobs, but when I went on RDM the other day (which was 46 at the time) I got like 200 exp per tag and blew threw 2-3 mp bars to do that. Which resulted in pissing me off and sitting in Whitegate playing Pankitaon (you forgot to mention that lol) for hours.

What really pisses me off are those damned brds that just sit at the campaign arribtor and sing and don't contribute to the cause at all. Those people are getting a free ticket. I MPK them every chance i get. problem is a lot of them RR and continure or worse will buy the resources from the zone taking them away from people who matter. Again the easy thing and only thinking of the individual goals ...

A similar discussion came up among my friends and me! Although we didn't view it as Square Enix losing focus on FFXI, we saw the Campaign situation as an error that they made - from which we continued our WOG bashing. :)

With all the content mentioned (and on and on), FFXI endgame is incredible, but it seems like new players continue to quit before they reach endgame. The intention with Campaign may be to provide party haters with a way to earn a bit of experience overlooking the subject that ultimately FFXI endgame relies heavily on partying. This can prolong a party hater's stay in FFXI, but it can't keep the player past endgame. In that sense, I agree that some focus was lost within planning of WOG activities.

I think people get burnt out on these endgame activities, because they can literally drag on forever throught the duration of a LS's lifeitme.  The vets that put the time in (and already have the gear), don't really want to go through it all over again, and the new guys get frustrated trying to battle everyone else in the LS that needs the loot/gear, (that have been putting the time in), and it kinda just goes on and repeats itself in this sadistic/masochistic cylcle.

And to top that off, SE is kinda scared to implement game breaking armor/weapons because it will offend the older players that worked so hard for their gear.  Just look at the new ToaU relic weapons... there comes a point in the game where people ask themselves and each other, is it really worth it? and what is the point?

Originally posted by SoulSurfer

I think people get burnt out on these endgame activities, because they can literally drag on forever throught the duration of a LS's lifeitme.  The vets that put the time in (and already have the gear), don't really want to go through it all over again, and the new guys get frustrated trying to battle everyone else in the LS that needs the loot/gear, (that have been putting the time in), and it kinda just goes on and repeats itself in this sadistic/masochistic cylcle.

Yes people get burnt out. Personally I have found it in 2 group of people.

1) The members get burnt out. So said members (who will be refered to from here on out as peon) decided to level something. Then peon gets a /tell from the leader wondering why peon is not at said event. Peon explains to leader that peon is burnt out and need a break. Leader tried to guilt peon into continuing the fight. That fails. Leader said it is okay to take a break then but in the long run finds a new member to kiss their a** (hearin called brown-noser). Now peon has spent 3 weeks just having fun again in the game and is ready to come back and do the events. Peon tired to joke around with leader, but leader is much colder than leader was before with peon. Peon comes to event and see the item that they want drop so peon lots and leader steps in and says that peon can't lot because peon doesn't have lotting rights anymore. Peon is forced to pass or is dropped from the party, peon reluctantly chooses to pass this time so peon doens't piss leader off. Leader now let brown-noser lot and brown-noser get the drop. Peon is now really hurt. Now one of two things happen. Either the cycle repeats until peon is burnt out again, or peon is so hurt that peon finds a new shell and climbs the ranks again but in doing so gets burnt out again and history repeats.

2) The leader(s) get(s) burnt out. I have seen this happen many times to. Usually right around -- but not always -- when said leader has completed whatever armor set the group set out to get. Thus the events stop. When this happens the members who still want the great will either sit in silence or move to another shell that is doing the stuff, up the recuitment opens up to a new group of peopel as the old ones drop. During this time the leader is usually off and will level another job just for something to do. Miraculously once the leader get to a level where the new job can use new gear the events start up again and the cycle continues. If the leader truely gets burnt out and doesn't want to do anything they will typically quit or break the linkshell because they don't want to lead anymore.

Call me cynical, but I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of times I see this happen.

I think one of the bigger problems lies in the fact that on a lot of servers, including Fenrir, the one I played on, you waste tons of time trying to level your jobs, In fact I quit about 3 months after the ps2 release beacuse I spent so many hours lfg in a night, only to log off later because I couldnt find one. This would go on for days, and in some instances would go for more than a week. Thats extremely discouraging for players and frankly the main reason I quit the first time, and a good part of why I quit again the second time. I came back the second time because I really wanted to play a corsair, I mean really really wanted to play a corsair, and a friend of mine bribed me back into playing with promises of unlimited bullets he would make for me. So I did go back, and bam first thing, my first night I wait 3 hours for a group. But Im pretty tenacious and decided I wasnt going to quit until I had that corsair job unlocked. It was going to take me a while because I wanted to go the cor/ran route. So when I finally got my new toons warrior job up to 30, unlocked the ranger job, promptly got to 13 and headed out to Valkurm. Now heres where it got nasty. My first day in Valkurm, 5 hour wait, nothing, next day, same thing, next day, same thing, a WEEK later after soloing more worms than I wanted to ever see in my life, I said screw it, I wasted almost 30 hours LFG. So again I quit.

What they really need to do is merge the servers, when reading various forums regarding FFXI, you'll hear the same problem all the time. Hard to get people to participate in endgame if they cant get there in the first place.

Originally posted by Arcken

What they really need to do is merge the servers, when reading various forums regarding FFXI, you'll hear the same problem all the time. Hard to get people to participate in endgame if they cant get there in the first place.

Your story is a sad one and I'm sorry for that. They do have a new thing called campaign battle where you can get some exp while lfp. Although it is really geared for 60+ because they grade exp gain, but you could do it. I have been saying they should merge servers for a while. Another post on here mentioned that they were too much to do and too little people to do it. Although I don't agree with that statement from the poster, if it were the case it would solve that problem. They JUST had maintanence yesterday to upgrade server equipment and I was thinking this very thing. Are they read to consolidate servers? Usually it is a last stitch effort of an MMO to do this, but with the world expanding we won't have 1000+ people standing in lower jeuno liek we used to (ev