General Discussion

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Abrahmm

 

The original Star Wars Galaxies had the basic systems in place to be an absolutely amazing game. All it needed was some polish and content(And by content I mean reasons to PvP, PvE, ect). Unfortunately SOE spent more time remaking the game then they did polishing it.

 

I've got to disagree with you there. Vehemently. For starters, they'd have to FINISH the game before they could start polishing it.

Frankly, and I think even Raph has conceded this, it was just far too ambitious.

Forget about bugs. On launch, a considerable portion of the game's professions and skills simply weren't implemented. They weren't merely broken... they outright weren't there.

And granted this is more personal opinion than anything else, but in a universe filled with space ships, ray guns, and talking robots... we had professions specializing in... swordfighting? Really?? Not lightsabers —hokey religions and ancient weapons aside— but conventional swords??

Perhaps even more ridiculous, arguably one of the most effective combat professions was... barefisted, Chuck Norris Karate?? Second to what? Pokemon "Creature Handlers"??

And don't get me started on the laughably redundant and grossly over-complex "HAM" mechanics, the utter uselessness of droids, smugglers who couldn't smuggle, or the horribly conceived and arbitrarily concocted "player-interdependency" systems. Hell, the game launched with neither vehicles nor SPACE.

A "Star Wars" game WITHOUT space content? Are you kidding me?? They had time to craft professions centered around dancing emotes and cooking pies for the Empire... but no fookin' space battles??

All of this...Anybody remember when Creature Handlers were the uber masters of all death and destruction because a master creature handler could have three rancors killing you at once while he shot at you or killed you with whatever his second professions were?  I remember those days...fun times right?

In all likelyhood (based upon common sense and a lack of the blinders that SWG fanboys wear) the game will feature a class system similar to old KOTOR games with classes balanced around one another in a more even way than the original KOTOR games were...as powerful as Mandalore was, he couldn't hope to go one on one with the jedi in my party...so that will probably be changed so that players can play other classes without feeling gimped.  And let's be real here guys...a Star Wars MMO without Jedi in it?  That's just not going to happen...KOTOR is set in a time where a jedi can show himself as a jedi without fear of being hunted down by the empire...so the need for them to be an unlockable class just isn't there...and as far as people just not wanting to see tnos of jedi characters running around with lightsabers at their sides and cool cloaks...get over yourself..who the hell are you to tell other people what they should and should not play as?

And if you want a system in game to make it so that you don't have to see that everyone is a jedi when you mouse over them?  Then they could easily make it so that character classes do not appear when you mouse over somebody...actually I think taht this would be a good immersion feature...you figure out what class a person is when you see them in combat.

Ps...not all jedi would be wearing distinctive robes and cloaks anyway...some jedi dressed pretty much like everybody else, why would you think that this would not be reflected in this game?

Originally posted by hanshotfirst

Originally posted by Abrahmm

 

The original Star Wars Galaxies had the basic systems in place to be an absolutely amazing game. All it needed was some polish and content(And by content I mean reasons to PvP, PvE, ect). Unfortunately SOE spent more time remaking the game then they did polishing it.

 

I've got to disagree with you there. Vehemently. For starters, they'd have to FINISH the game before they could start polishing it.

Frankly, and I think even Raph has conceded this, it was just far too ambitious.

Forget about bugs. On launch, a considerable portion of the game's professions and skills simply weren't implemented. They weren't merely broken... they outright weren't there.

Ok, clearly the game survived quite a bit pass launch. Why don't we talk about once they had put everything they implemented in?

And granted this is more personal opinion than anything else, but in a universe filled with space ships, ray guns, and talking robots... we had professions specializing in... swordfighting? Really?? Not lightsabers —hokey religions and ancient weapons aside— but conventional swords??

KotOR had melee fighting, as a few characters carried melee weapons in the movies.

Perhaps even more ridiculous, arguably one of the most effective combat professions was... barefisted, Chuck Norris Karate?? Second to what? Pokemon "Creature Handlers"??

This was more of a balance issue then a core system issue. Again creature handlers were in the movies(Rancor trainer).

And don't get me started on the laughably redundant and grossly over-complex "HAM" mechanics, the utter uselessness of droids, smugglers who couldn't smuggle, or the horribly conceived and arbitrarily concocted "player-interdependency" systems. Hell, the game launched with neither vehicles nor SPACE.

I'm sorry you don't like to think when playing games. Not everyone likes to be spoon fed 2 bars, one for health and one for your abilities with only health being attackable. Smugglers who couldn't smuggle was silly, but again that falls into the "Content" part of what I said it needed. And once again BOTH vehicles and Space were added to the game. Lets not talk about launch, but a more complete time. Anyone can rip apart any games Launch.

A "Star Wars" game WITHOUT space content? Are you kidding me?? They had time to craft professions centered around dancing emotes and cooking pies for the Empire... but no fookin' space battles??

Once again, it was added. If your biggest gripe is about something that wasn't in launch but soon added after, I think you need to get over it.

Surely the whole ponit of setting the game before SW is to have Jedis not be so unique, so we can all play them?  They should still be a bit of a reward - e.g. unlocked after you've shown some commitment to the game by getting a high level char, or something like that - but there should certainly be no lore difficulty in there being quite a few Jedi running around in this SW time period.

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by rheinpfalzer

there are a few more heroes in SW than just jedi...

Luke didnt win the war by himself. contrary to popular belief brought on by horrible prequels made to fill pockets full of cash.

 

You will quickly find out that not everyone wants to be a jedi or force oriented . Im pretty sure the devs have there ducks in a row and know this also. If jedi were the purpose of star wars then why have regular beings mulling around the almighty jedi?

 

If SW was a jedi only story it would have been so bland and diluted by now we wouldnt even be discussing possible mmo's base don it...

 

If Han solo ever raised his blaster to shoot at Luke or Darth Vader he would get choked to death. that's what the issue is- why allow a pure smuggler type that will just get pwned

I say allow them if you going for a sandbox but if this a Class based game yeah- please don't try to balance a smuggler against a Jedi

There were non-jedi who were Jedi-killers.   They were also very rare and legendary.  Like Durge and Boba Fett.

So like someone else mentioned its more about special versus non-special.  Most Jedi Knights in the clone wars were Generals or High Generals.

A Jedi knight or Jedi Master was a major player.  Just like Boba Fett or Durge were major players.

So in the end its comes down to the old argument of what the players are in the universe.   Not whether Jedi are invincible against non-force users.  In a way the Force just makes an average person into a Hero level character.  Does not mean there not "normal human" Hero characters.

I guess you could argue that there actually should be more Hero level Jedi than non-Jedi since the force is hax.

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by vajuras

Originally posted by rheinpfalzer

there are a few more heroes in SW than just jedi...

Luke didnt win the war by himself. contrary to popular belief brought on by horrible prequels made to fill pockets full of cash.

 

You will quickly find out that not everyone wants to be a jedi or force oriented . Im pretty sure the devs have there ducks in a row and know this also. If jedi were the purpose of star wars then why have regular beings mulling around the almighty jedi?

 

If SW was a jedi only story it would have been so bland and diluted by now we wouldnt even be discussing possible mmo's base don it...

 

If Han solo ever raised his blaster to shoot at Luke or Darth Vader he would get choked to death. that's what the issue is- why allow a pure smuggler type that will just get pwned

I say allow them if you going for a sandbox but if this a Class based game yeah- please don't try to balance a smuggler against a Jedi

 

There were non-jedi who were Jedi-killers.   They were also very rare and legendary.  Like Durge and Boba Fett.

 

So like someone else mentioned its more about special versus non-special.  Most Jedi Knights in the clone wars were Generals or High Generals.

 

A Jedi knight or Jedi Master was a major player.  Just like Boba Fett or Durge were major players.

 

So in the end its comes down to the old argument of what the players are in the universe.   Not whether Jedi are invincible against non-force users.  In a way the Force just makes an average person into a Hero level character.  Does not mean there not "normal human" Hero characters.

 

I guess you could argue that there actually should be more Hero level Jedi than non-Jedi since the force is hax.

Yeah exactly I'm assuming I can become a Master Jedi + normal Classes are the base anyways- just like in KOTR. If they make seperate classes then it will suck if they attach Item restrictions and the KOTR MMO is based more on EQ then KOTR.

In EQ clones, you have different Classes and they can't multi-class

In KOTR / D&D editions, you can multiclass and can train your character to learn any weapon, armor, etc

If the MMO follows KOTR exactly then a common Class should not be able to do things a Jedi cannot unless you are a Droid or force resistant creature from birth.

I wonder how many people expect this rumored mmo to be story-driven like kotor 1 & 2 were....

Do you really expect to play the "Jedi Hero", next to 300 000 other Jedi Heroes ?....

WTB sandbox, please.

Trick question: Skill based systems, not classes. :P

No but seriously, force abilities should be available from the start.

Originally posted by PrinnySquad

Trick question: Skill based systems, not classes. :P

No but seriously, force abilities should be available from the start.

I think a really good system would be to have a skill system with "Force Sensitivity" being one of the trees. And to attempt to go down the Jedi path, you must master the Force Sensitivity  tree first, and then do some other stuff.

This would also allow for people to dabble in force sensitivity while dedicating their character to other professions and leave Jedi alone.