General Discussion

I personally prefer open worlds but I also prefer games that do not force me to raid for gear. when I came into this genre, I expected fully open worlds where my friends and I could roam the world together in the same zone full of other people. We did not expect entire towns to be 'instanced'.

I do not think something like a Town should be instanced if anyway possible I'd like to see MMOs avoid that

Originally posted by gillvane1

I like open world dungeons. You get to run into other players in the dungeon, which makes the world seem alive, and players can help each otehr, like rez a party that is wiped, and you can recruit new party members in the dungeon, without leaving an instance.

On the other hand, I want the boss mob instanced, so I don't have to camp it or wait in line to kill it.

agree but I'd much rather make it so everyone present can help kill the Boss and then share the loot (roll, whatever). That would be truly massive multiplayer too me. WAR has the right idea with "public quests" I would say

All forms of instancing suck.

Originally posted by Netzoko

First off, don't give me that BS about how instancing is a must for servers. 1997 UO had a massive, seamless world supporting just as many players as current MMOs. Yeah, nineteen ninety fucking seven.

Now, developers have realized a short-cut that we're all too stupid to fight against....instancing. This short-cut has ruined what would have been great MMOs.

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Age of Conan: Hyped to hell then dumbed down for the Xbox 360. The worst, however, is that fact that every zone has multiple copies, on multiple servers. Way to break up a massively multiplayer game, right? Why have servers then? If every zone is broken up, why have separate servers? It makes no sense. Epic siege battles? Laff. Instancing ruined this game.

Pirates of the Burning Sea: This game could have been amazing. Imagine sailing the seas and docking at ports for trade, or conquering if wanted. Explore the many islands of the Caribbean? Sorry. The reality is that you enjoy one big loading screen of small environments. Everything is instanced. Missions, sea battles, ports.... All separated by loading screens. You cant walk around islands, your boat... anything.

 

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It's sad when games plummet and the devs sit and pick their noses wondering what went wrong.

EVE (one of the few mmos that shows its player numbers without fear) had more than 55 pcs connected together in 2004.

http://www.stackless.com/Members/rmtew/code/PyCon2006-StacklessEvePresentation.zip/download

With the above cluster setup (which is very expensive) and a lot of python you can host many thousands of players in a seamless world, while splitting the world load in instances and loading screens every time, is lot easier-cheaper and does not require much code optimization and administration.

Also, developers able to create a seamless world 11 years ago in 128 mbyte pentium mmx servers with  features like world inventory, asking npcs about other player locations, nested inventory, recalling without loading and many more, are not easy to find anymore and if they are they may prefer not to make games.

some mmos overlooked the seamless world (the main definition of an mmorpg imo) but i also don't buy cheap excuses like graphics and character customizations as a reason for world instancing.

Vanguard is another proof that a seamless world can be viable with today's graphics but unfortunately it was not as optimised as it should be when it launched.

Instancing is ok when used with moderation and logic.

Wow does it decently well. There is this seamless world and there are this pve-pvp instances. tBut overall it is still a seamless world . you dont have players spreaded over goldshire1, goldshire2 or goldshire34.

AOC overdid it when making the FULL WORLD instanced.  it killed the MM aspect of the game for many.

for me;

instancing is ok when used to provide pve content

instancing is not okay when used to fragment the game world.

I think instancing has its merits. It is nice to not have to camp spawns and all that. It can really ruin the immersion factor when you're out in the middle of a desert about to raid the long lost tomb of the pharoah, a place where no other people should rightly be, and yet you run into a whole group of people just like you. It makes you and your little adventure just feel like another common thing, which is exactly the kind of thing we should try to avoid when making games.

But I feel that instances are more of a patch up job, which cover up the real problem. That problem is not open worlds, but the whole spawn and camping system, which is the real obsolete mechanic in question here. It's just as immersion breaking to see a bunch of people in the middle of the desert waiting outside the instance entrance for the rest of their group, for example.

However, we have to take certain liberties in the interest of gameplay and fun, of course. We don't need everything to be ultra realistic where you kill the pharoah mummy and then no one else ever gets that quest line again.

The only real solution is creativity. We need developers who can make things believable, make things interesting and make things fun. So far I don't see a lot of creativity in the MMORPG genre, at least not to the extent of single player games. Take a look at Katamari Damacy for example, the game is off the deep end compared to the standard fare mmo content. I'm not suggesting in any way that we need balls rolling around picking up objects in our dungeons, I'm just citing it as an example. I don't see a lot of similar creativity in MMO's. We need more of that, instead of settling for the same old.

I do not mind the instancing one bit, Mind you i am not logged onto 6 other MMO at the same time either like most of these i don't give a shit PKers are.

SO i agree on the way MMO games are going towards Single player type of play. Anything the Developers do to get ride of or maker harder for them it's AOK by me.

More instances please.

Well I love instancing in games that know how to do it, it keeps the public retards out of your game.

I see no use in perstistant worlds in PVE games if you want to play with friend group up with your friends no ones stopping you, but to force everyone into one large pug (which is what persistance is) is not giving player the option. When you unwillingly force people into one large PUG which is what persistance is, it no longer becomes PVE, its becomes PVPVE.

Persistance only makes sense in PVP in PVE theres tricks and things that can get around the problem of nobody being around, theres is more drawbacks in persitant world PVE ie- graphic limiations, content limitations, gameplay limitiations which do more harm than the good. So whats all this good stuff that comes out of persistant worlds? dont tell me is the emmersion of seing some random guy run by you that youll ingore. Youre going to gimp the PVE experience just for that?

Guild Wars is a fine example where instancing works, the zones are large enough that youre rarely loading screen and theres plenty of people to form parties with if you get lonely, all with out persitance and gameplay graphics and content excelled as a result.

Id like to think of Persistant worlds as free for all pve, and just like free for all PVP its usually filled with griefers. Theres no reason to add a persistant world to PVE content which should be single player or co-operative experience, the point being that you have that option to choose to play the PVE content by yourself or with your invited friends, but not forced into a public PVE free for all called persistant world.

Originally posted by bigtime102

Well I love instancing in games that know how to do it, it keeps the public retards out of your game.

I see no use in perstistant worlds in PVE games if you want to play with friend group up with your friends no ones stopping you, but to force everyone into one large pug (which is what persistance is) is not giving player the option. When you unwillingly force people into one large PUG which is what persistance is, it no longer becomes PVE, its becomes PVPVE.

Persistance only makes sense in PVP in PVE theres tricks and things that can get around the problem of nobody being around, theres is more drawbacks in persitant world PVE ie- graphic limiations, content limitations, gameplay limitiations which do more harm than the good. So whats all this good stuff that comes out of persistant worlds? dont tell me is the emmersion of seing some random guy run by you that youll ingore. Youre going to gimp the PVE experience just for that?

Guild Wars is a fine example where instancing works, the zones are large enough that youre rarely loading screen and theres plenty of people to form parties with if you get lonely, all with out persitance and gameplay graphics and content excelled as a result.

Id like to think of Persistant worlds as free for all pve, and just like free for all PVP its usually filled with griefers. Theres no reason to add a persistant world to PVE content which should be single player or co-operative experience, the point being that you have that option to choose to play the PVE content by yourself or with your invited friends, but not forced into a public PVE free for all called persistant world.

You want a reason why Instances mess with PVE? Well how about Impact? Making a name for yourself? Wouldn't it be cool if your town is being attacked by mobs and you run outside and defend it? Then afterwards you are awarded for helping defend your town from attack.

How about a game where you see a guy gettinfg swarmed by mobs and you jump in and save his life? Why is this not a good thing?

Yes guild wars was fun but look at GW. you run around in instances with a few other people. It's a coop RPG and it claims to be nothing more. What about walking around town and being able to see the cool equipment they have on or nice decorations? In City of Heroes we had costume contests in Town all the time. Instances ruin stuff like that. Heck, all the time I'd click on a hero and read his Bio.

What about playing a new MMO with a friend only to find out you split apart by an instance? This wasn;t fun for us when we encountered our first instanced MMO

I would like to see developers challenge themselves to make true dynamic content. I'd like to be able to enter a dungeon and make new friends while I'm there. Screw sitting around in town "LFM 1 Tank!!!!". Let me go into a dungeon and meet others as I go. People claim they are so casual yet they are content with sitting around in town spamming local for team members for groups. you guys kidding me how is that fun?

Queues be darned, I like open worlds.