Developers Corner

First I want to apologize if this has been discussed before, but I did not find any previous topics.

So, how would it change world PvP if you couldn't see your opponent's level? Or more generally, you had no way to measure how strong he is compared to you. In WoW and such this does not work too well, because the equipment both means a lot power-wise and is very effective measurement of how strong you are. But consider a game where equipment decided only about 10% of character strength and the looks of equipment gave only a hint of how good it was. If I knew I was moderately strong, would I go gank [people who I thought were] newbies? Or would I be scared of the chance that someone better than me could be on a newbie-ish area, waiting to kill moderately strong people who want to kill newbies? Or would some newbie be able to wear very elite-looking (but crappy) armor and scare all the newbie killers away?

So, how would this change world PvP (meaning non-bg, non-arena, etc)? What problems there are?

It's funny that no one responded.

I think it would be a great idea. Put this in a pvp ffa loot game and I'd play it.

The pkers would actually then be risking something attacking somone since they don't know if that person is lower or higher than they are or what kind of skills that person might have.

I'd be all for something like this. 

Originally posted by AnlaShok

First I want to apologize if this has been discussed before, but I did not find any previous topics.

So, how would it change world PvP if you couldn't see your opponent's level? Or more generally, you had no way to measure how strong he is compared to you. In WoW and such this does not work too well, because the equipment both means a lot power-wise and is very effective measurement of how strong you are. But consider a game where equipment decided only about 10% of character strength and the looks of equipment gave only a hint of how good it was. If I knew I was moderately strong, would I go gank [people who I thought were] newbies? Or would I be scared of the chance that someone better than me could be on a newbie-ish area, waiting to kill moderately strong people who want to kill newbies? Or would some newbie be able to wear very elite-looking (but crappy) armor and scare all the newbie killers away?

So, how would this change world PvP (meaning non-bg, non-arena, etc)? What problems there are?

/sigh.

I miss pre-cu SWG.

Originally posted by golstat2003

The pkers would actually then be risking something attacking somone since they don't know if that person is lower or higher than they are or what kind of skills that person might have.

Yeah, that was one of the main points. I have several other ideas which in my opinion support this non-trivial style of pvp, but I'm going to think them through myself before posting them here. But this unsureness of comparative levels adds a possibility of bluffing and that is what I like. I'm really bored with stupid pvp-games with absolutely no place for human psychology.

Another question: what games do incorporate this feature (not showing how good or bad your enemy is)?

And I'd still like to hear your opinions how this would change world pvp and would those changes be good or bad.

Thank you.

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP.  Most MMORPGs just feel so much like playing a board game instead of interacting with beings in an imaginative world.

Here are my feelings on the subject and the way it would change things for the better:

mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/48749

I love the idea. I played Rappelz, and from level 20 to 50, players armor graphics were exactly the same, respective to race/class. Though the armor could be upgraded, there was no way to tell visually. Players levels weren't displayed, either. PvP was a pretty big thing as well... The mystery made it so much more fun, though. Not knowing what one was getting into made griefers a lot more reluctant to grief. It made PvP so much of a bigger deal... Players were much more weary of attacking eachother or attacking someone who has a bounty. Especially because you could drop an item when you died. Ahhh, fun.

This is already done in Lineage II. The only thing giving you away is your armor and weapons, and of course if someone sees you slaying a high-level mob. There are high-level people who deliberately dress in low-level armor to lure mid-level PKers to attack them. ;-)

Yeah, as has been mentioned most games who have open pvp as more than an afterthought hide levels. I think even if pvp isn't that important, that levels should be hidden anyway. Levels to me act as a divider of the playerbase, and don't seem to accomplish much, except to inflate the egos of higher level characters.

Gear-wise, you OBVIOUSLY should be able to tell that someone who is wearing a backwards dragon helmet with a perpetual flame, giant angel wings, the neon armor from TRON, and has a big club with a skull on the end of it is probably someone you don't want to mess with. But there should also be high level assassin characters who don't stand out, yet can take you out with a couple of jabs in important places.

The downside of course, is that some people might want to display their level, which begs the question, maybe it should be up to the players? With the option, I could see two potentially bad things happening. One, hiding level is deemed "cheap" so pretty much anyone hiding their level is assumed to be a newb and promptly ganked. Two, hiding is considered the way to go, and people who walk around with their level are easily picked on. Two isn't that bad, but one would suck.

If it's always hidden, you can still announce what level you are, although people might not believe you.

What about LFG? Level is pretty important when looking for people to group with. If you hide levels you might not know what you are getting. And greifers could pretend to want to group, find out what level someone is, and then know whether to attack or not. So hiding does have some flaws. I've never seen it happen in games that do it, but I haven't played a lot of open pvp games either.

I like this idea and have wished for it in many games I have played. Alot of times in game players harrass you if you are a high level and follow you around bugging you, or in pvp they run away and log out as soon as they see you comming. Not being able to see levels would help  that a lot, and maybe people would start treating other players better and not judge a  person by the levels their character has.  Though I would like to take this idea a step further and have you not be able to tell a characters abilities by appearance as well. if you could wear anything in game and it's abilities are determined by the customizations  you make to it. Say if all items were socketable and their abilities were determined by what you put in those sockets it would give a whole  new level of unpredictability to combat that does not currently exist. people could wear anything, a santa suit and  give it +40 mage defense  and be able to fight in it . Players could mage wearing a santa suit melee wearing a party dress.. it would change the face of PVP in the unpredictability aspect.

I have always wished that there be no way to see an opponents level or class at all.