Originally posted by Daffid011

I am just happy that SOE has nothing to do with the next game. 

 

I would love to a more social based game, but even an EQ clone game wouldn't be to bad if done right.

This is like irony or a catch-22 or something from the bizarro world...

Happy no SOE involvement, however you are ok with a SOE owned EQ clone?

Originally posted by Rhoklaw

Originally posted by Obee

Originally posted by Rhoklaw

That was the whole point of creating LA, to specifically interject content and features they felt depicted the Star Wars IP.

 

Uh, no it wasn't.  Lucasfilm Games was created in 1982.  The name was changed to LucasArts Entertainment Company in 1990.  The very first Star Wars title from LEC was X-Wing, in 1993.

How does including Sith and Jedi not follow the story of the KotOR era?  Prior to the GCW rea, the Star Wars universe was loaded with Jedi, and in the KotOR era, the was a very large Sith faction.

Bioware's MMO will have at least one thing SWG doesn't have, a lack of SOe involvement.  It is also very likey that Bioware's game will be a whole lot more fun than SWG currently is, which won't be very hard to accomplish, since SWG is currently the least fun MMO available.

The CU and NGE were concepts that were conceived by SOE, and approved by LEC.  Without SOe in the mix, the concepts sent to LEC for approval will likely be much, much better than the drek SOE shoved out the door.

All in all, it would seem that Bioware's MMO has a chance to be a good game, which is much more than can be said for SWG.  Bioware's MMO also has a future, which will not likely be the case for SWG.

 

 

 

My apologies for my inaccuracies in my post, as I am tired. However, I meant to say, that LA's involvement, not creation was the whole point of them joining the SOE team. So that statement should have read...

"That was the whole point of involving LA, to specifically interject content and features they felt depicted the Star Wars IP."

KOTOR era is not during the Sith Empire, atleast I wasn't aware of it. As far I can remember, KOTOR era was based on a time after its destruction, during the rule of two, so if I'm wrong, my apologies once more.

Ok, SOE won't be involved with KOTOR, thats obvious, but that doesn't guarantee KOTOR will give all the angry vets what they've been whining about for 3 years.

I'm not saying KOTOR won't be a great Star Wars game, but it seems to me, the so called Angry Vet Celebration is a kinda weak approach to YOU won. Cause yeah, you didnt win, cause KOTOR will not be SWG 2.

The KOTOR timeline can go a few ways, depending on what era they use since the Old Republic covers a long time in the SW universe.  The original KOTOR game took place during a time when the Sith had a large and formidable empire, led by Darth Revan.  Even during the early years of Darth Bane, who implemented the Rule of Two and was many years after the events of KOTOR game, there was another large force of Sith known as the Brotherhood of Darkness who fought for years against the Old Republic and the Jedi. 

Anyway, as for swg vs. Bioware's mmo, as long as the new game is fun and works it will succeed and swg will end.  MANY of the people who are still playing swg are only there because its the only Star Wars mmo available and, to a lesser degree, its sci-fi and not fantasy.  Those people make up a big chuck of current subs and if Bioware's mmo is any good, they will leave swg faster than rats abandoning a sinking ship.

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Does this have implications on SWG? You bet it does, as many of the current players (who are also quite fed up with SOE) are admitting to being ready for a new SW MMO.  Which means another major hit to sub numbers.

And truthfully speaking, us using our power as consumers, leaving SWG, and bitching to high-heaven about the NGE has definetly done damage to SOE and SWG as it stands now. There are no doubts about it.

We...WIN! Fortunetly for even NGE fanbois, I'm sure there will be plenty of fun to be had in the new SW MMO and I'd be happy to enjoy it along side any of you.

 

Will you win for every game that has a successor by a different company? Any new game developed for an existing game based on an IP should reign over the original. I would have to think that in 2 years (or 5) from now when the next company gets their hands on the Lord of the Rings IP I can almost guarantee that will affect the subscription numbers for the original LOTRO. The same can be said for any other game that has a 5 year old predecessor. Players won't leave for the new game because they don't like the old game... it will be a technology driven move. I firmly believe that any successor game to an existing one should have corrected everything wrong with the first game when presenting it in the next-gen format.

That being said, the vets did not create the sales pitch to Lucas with which they decided to license the star wars universe to another company. The marketing team, R&D team, development team, artistic team, KOTOR I and II past successes sold Lucas Arts (LucasFilms) the idea. SWG vets? Not in a million years. I think the board of directors for both LA and LF, and George Lucas Himself have never given a split second thought to what SOE did with SWG or to their players. Know why? Because LucasArts sold SOE the ability to use the SW universe. SOE paid a hefty amount up-front with which LucasArts were fine with. Had the game been a flop from day 1, LucasArts would have been ok with the decision because they were paid up-front to allow SOE to develop a game based on their IP. Sure a successful game = good royalties, but being paid up-front always makes a deal better.

I bet Bioware paid the higher amount for the re-issuing of the SW  property. I am sure SOE bid (and probably a few other companies - who wouldn't want control over the star wars universe?) but lost out. LucasArts is out to make M-O-N-E-Y just like every other company in the world. Show them the money and their board of directors will sleep well at night never thinking twice about the SWG vets who 'won' this big payout for the franchise use.

Originally posted by Faxxer

Originally posted by onlinenow225

I dont know about you guys.  But if a company stole 100's of dollars from me w/out letting me get my money back.  I would do the exact same thing.  Some of these vets had 2 accounts with maybe a years worth of prepaid time.

 

So at 14.99 a month x2 x12 that comes out to 359.76.  Thats a hefty amount of money.  I sure as hell would try and ruin the company after some crap like that.

 

Finally sombody gets it. 

Word of Mouth....those guys that keep bashing vets for their banter saying they're just looking stupid...are completely wrong....    Word of Mouth is #1 in business world.

As a person who owns a business, YOU BET they are dead on winning every moment they bash soe to a new gamer.

 edit:

The average gamer is 30 now...  starting to have kids... do u think daddy is going to buy jr. a swg account?  LOL....nope.  and daddy is going to tell jr's friends about how evil soe and swg are in how they treated daddy a few years ago... viral....word of mouth...marketing.  101. 

I also own a business and have to disagree. One pissed off consumer returning something to WalMart will not make a dent in the company. Nor will 1,000 or 100,000. WalMart will always be Walmart. The same can be said for SOE. Pissing off one player or 250,000 will mean nothing because at the end of the day SOE is still SOE.

The truth is, complaining, bitching, word of mouth will never tarnish a company's image because for every one person tarnishing an image, 10 others are improving it. SOE is a seperate division from Sony Electronics, but do you think for one minute that the new generation of 15-20 year old gamers will ever know about SOE and SWG even with your word of mouth? Nope. If you believe you will sway an entire age demographic because of YOUR word-of-mouth then you are dillusional. The next-gen gamers will know Sony as quality for TVs, Blu-Ray, stereos, etc. Even though the two are completely different divisions, next-gen gamers will associate SOE as a quality brand. No amount of your word of mouth can change that.

Better head back for Marketing 201.

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Originally posted by hubertgrove

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Originally posted by Thradar

You guys act like the new mmo will be out this year.  I'd be surprised if you see it in 4 years...when/if Bioware actually confirms it.

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Bioware have confirmed it's coming out 'sometime in 2009'. Link in the 'It's Official ' thread on this board.

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I just want to go on record saying that "sometime in 2009" in realistic terms means 2011 most likely.

I don't think there has ever been a game that released when they said it would.

We all know that for some reason game devs can't estimate the release of their game for crap. We fans all know (the ones that pay attention) that you take the first estimated release date, and add two years to it, and you'll be much, much closer to an actual release date.

Originally posted by Rhoklaw

Originally posted by Obee

Originally posted by Rhoklaw

That was the whole point of creating LA, to specifically interject content and features they felt depicted the Star Wars IP.

 

Uh, no it wasn't.  Lucasfilm Games was created in 1982.  The name was changed to LucasArts Entertainment Company in 1990.  The very first Star Wars title from LEC was X-Wing, in 1993.

How does including Sith and Jedi not follow the story of the KotOR era?  Prior to the GCW rea, the Star Wars universe was loaded with Jedi, and in the KotOR era, the was a very large Sith faction.

Bioware's MMO will have at least one thing SWG doesn't have, a lack of SOe involvement.  It is also very likey that Bioware's game will be a whole lot more fun than SWG currently is, which won't be very hard to accomplish, since SWG is currently the least fun MMO available.

The CU and NGE were concepts that were conceived by SOE, and approved by LEC.  Without SOe in the mix, the concepts sent to LEC for approval will likely be much, much better than the drek SOE shoved out the door.

All in all, it would seem that Bioware's MMO has a chance to be a good game, which is much more than can be said for SWG.  Bioware's MMO also has a future, which will not likely be the case for SWG.

 

 

 

My apologies for my inaccuracies in my post, as I am tired. However, I meant to say, that LA's involvement, not creation was the whole point of them joining the SOE team. So that statement should have read...

"That was the whole point of involving LA, to specifically interject content and features they felt depicted the Star Wars IP."

KOTOR era is not during the Sith Empire, atleast I wasn't aware of it. As far I can remember, KOTOR era was based on a time after its destruction, during the rule of two, so if I'm wrong, my apologies once more.

Ok, SOE won't be involved with KOTOR, thats obvious, but that doesn't guarantee KOTOR will give all the angry vets what they've been whining about for 3 years.

I'm not saying KOTOR won't be a great Star Wars game, but it seems to me, the so called Angry Vet Celebration is a kinda weak approach to YOU won. Cause yeah, you didnt win, cause KOTOR will not be SWG 2.

Okay I get what you were saying about LEC's involvement.  Yeah, LEC's primary involvement in SWG is to make sure it conforms to the Star Wars IP.  They didn't do a very good job.

In both KotOR games, the Sith involved one or more Sith Lord (two in the first game, and two to three in the second) leading a Sith army consisting of many dark Jedi underlings along with non-Jedi combat troops.  In the second game, All three of the Sith Lords has at least one apprentice.  In the first, both Sith Lords had an apprentice.  In both instances, someone might disagree with the number of apprentices, but if you play through the games, you will see that I am correct.

The KotOR games are set after the Sith Empire, but the second one doesn't follow the rule of two (which is actually a centeral plot point, but it isn't really spelled out).  The conflict in the games are similar to the GCW era, but the Sith are the insurgents and the Republic are the ones in charge of the government.  The first game give a reason why the Sith are able to challenge the Republic, the second one, not so much (the second game was released half finished and the entire second half game was mostly cut, due to Obsidian burning through the development funds and that LEC decided they wanted to release it six months early, it was supposed to be a May release that was changed to the prior Christmas)

I've been posting here for almost two years.  My posts primarily consist of pointing out how bad the current game is, and pointing out how awful SOE is.  I'd really like to see a new MMO, preferably with no connection to SOE, that is similar to pre-CU SWG, since I think it would make for an excelent game, if it was finished (something SWG never was).  I've played and enjoyed several games that are level, class, loot based.  The only two games that have held my interest for more than a few months at a time were pre-AOS UO and pre-NGE SWG.  I was enough of a Star Wars fan that i even gave the NGE a chance to get better, something that didn't happen.  I really do understand why the folks who still play the game because it is Star Wars, still play the game.

Originally posted by Bronks

Originally posted by Faxxer

Originally posted by onlinenow225

I dont know about you guys.  But if a company stole 100's of dollars from me w/out letting me get my money back.  I would do the exact same thing.  Some of these vets had 2 accounts with maybe a years worth of prepaid time.

 

So at 14.99 a month x2 x12 that comes out to 359.76.  Thats a hefty amount of money.  I sure as hell would try and ruin the company after some crap like that.

 

Finally sombody gets it. 

Word of Mouth....those guys that keep bashing vets for their banter saying they're just looking stupid...are completely wrong....    Word of Mouth is #1 in business world.

As a person who owns a business, YOU BET they are dead on winning every moment they bash soe to a new gamer.

 edit:

The average gamer is 30 now...  starting to have kids... do u think daddy is going to buy jr. a swg account?  LOL....nope.  and daddy is going to tell jr's friends about how evil soe and swg are in how they treated daddy a few years ago... viral....word of mouth...marketing.  101. 

 

I also own a business and have to disagree. One pissed off consumer returning something to WalMart will not make a dent in the company. Nor will 1,000 or 100,000. WalMart will always be Walmart. The same can be said for SOE. Pissing off one player or 250,000 will mean nothing because at the end of the day SOE is still SOE.

 

The truth is, complaining, bitching, word of mouth will never tarnish a company's image because for every one person tarnishing an image, 10 others are improving it. SOE is a seperate division from Sony Electronics, but do you think for one minute that the new generation of 15-20 year old gamers will ever know about SOE and SWG even with your word of mouth? Nope. If you believe you will sway an entire age demographic because of YOUR word-of-mouth then you are dillusional. The next-gen gamers will know Sony as quality for TVs, Blu-Ray, stereos, etc. Even though the two are completely different divisions, next-gen gamers will associate SOE as a quality brand. No amount of your word of mouth can change that.

 

Better head back for Marketing 201.

Welcome to the Internet age.  Marketing 201 wasn't ready for it, I promise.  And SWG is the epic example of it.

As a business owner, you obviously know that there are two primary ways to get to the top in business: 1) Be the lowest-cost provider (as Walmart is), or 2) Provide a good or service that nobody else can, or provide it easier than anyone else can.  When I go to buy a gallon of milk, I don't typically check relevant Internet forums to see if anyone else has tried the milk at Walmart, is it worth the cost, does it taste funny, etc.  Nor do many people in my age demographic, or the one below me that every game company in the world is salivating over and that World of Warcraft now owns.

However, as you also no doubt know as you are a business owner, people remember maybe 1 out of every 200 good experiences with a company (there's a number documented somewhere but I can't be arsed), but they VIVIDLY remember EVERY bad one.  And they tend to let others know about it any way they can.  MMOs, not being milk, are very heavily promoted via word of mouth (erm fingers?) on forums such as these.  Hence the birth of viral marketing.  Would that be a 500-level Marketing class?  Anyway, I'm not going to throw out numbers as far as how many people Sony screwed over that actually complain about it, as nobody really knows.  But it's enough.  And when that many people make that loud of a noise, people to tend to go "ok, what's the fuss about?" and look a little deeper into it.

To follow your analogy, it's a bit like somebody putting up a physical bulletin board outside Walmart  where people can write down their experiences about shopping there, and you can choose to glance at it or not before going into the store.  How many people would see it, stay for a minute to read, and turn around and head to Target?  As far as SOE goes, I can tell you more than one person has.  And anyone in the next generation who feels Sony or SOE is a quality brand has either ignored the negative press or hasn't taken the time to glance at that bulletin board.

Seriously? You're background static lost in a sea of marketing noise.  95% of the people who have played MMOs never played SWG. Many who played it never liked it. Most people who play MMOs don't spend any significant amount of time  on gaming forums. Many of the ones who do think you're a bunch of whiny nerds. There's not enough of you and you're not public enough to make an appreciable change in the market. 

Originally posted by Bronks

Originally posted by Faxxer

Originally posted by onlinenow225

I dont know about you guys.  But if a company stole 100's of dollars from me w/out letting me get my money back.  I would do the exact same thing.  Some of these vets had 2 accounts with maybe a years worth of prepaid time.

 

So at 14.99 a month x2 x12 that comes out to 359.76.  Thats a hefty amount of money.  I sure as hell would try and ruin the company after some crap like that.

 

Finally sombody gets it. 

Word of Mouth....those guys that keep bashing vets for their banter saying they're just looking stupid...are completely wrong....    Word of Mouth is #1 in business world.

As a person who owns a business, YOU BET they are dead on winning every moment they bash soe to a new gamer.

 edit:

The average gamer is 30 now...  starting to have kids... do u think daddy is going to buy jr. a swg account?  LOL....nope.  and daddy is going to tell jr's friends about how evil soe and swg are in how they treated daddy a few years ago... viral....word of mouth...marketing.  101. 

 

I also own a business and have to disagree. One pissed off consumer returning something to WalMart will not make a dent in the company. Nor will 1,000 or 100,000. WalMart will always be Walmart. The same can be said for SOE. Pissing off one player or 250,000 will mean nothing because at the end of the day SOE is still SOE.

 

The truth is, complaining, bitching, word of mouth will never tarnish a company's image because for every one person tarnishing an image, 10 others are improving it. SOE is a seperate division from Sony Electronics, but do you think for one minute that the new generation of 15-20 year old gamers will ever know about SOE and SWG even with your word of mouth? Nope. If you believe you will sway an entire age demographic because of YOUR word-of-mouth then you are dillusional. The next-gen gamers will know Sony as quality for TVs, Blu-Ray, stereos, etc. Even though the two are completely different divisions, next-gen gamers will associate SOE as a quality brand. No amount of your word of mouth can change that.

 

Better head back for Marketing 201.

We're not talking about the biggest company in the world, wal-mart.  if we were I'd agree with your statements of 250k ppl not making a dent.

We're talking about an industry (minus wow) that is much smaller.  And 250k ppl quitting and telling all their friends why is DEVATSTATING.     

Don't tell me you don't know how 1 negative statment can affect dozens of ppl.  vs. 1 positive.  << 101.

When the NGE hit there were stories in the NYT for crying out loud by writers who were swg players...SOE took a gut hit so bad, ...don't tell me word of mouth didn't hurt them here.

Check your facts... What is the age of the average gamer again today? 

201...Soe never got that far. 

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Seriously? You're background static lost in a sea of marketing noise.  95% of the people who have played MMOs never played SWG. Many who played it never liked it. Most people who play MMOs don't spend any significant amount of time  on gaming forums. Many of the ones who do think you're a bunch of whiny nerds. There's not enough of you and you're not public enough to make an appreciable change in the market. 

I await your detailed and lengthy explanation of why the NGE did not succeed in its quest to garnish 1 bajillion subscriptions, since the vocal former player base certainly had nothing to do with it in an industry that relies mostly on word of mouth.  And everyone who has ever posted on a gaming forum is a whiny nerd at some point.  Sticks and stones...

Originally posted by Kylrathin

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Seriously? You're background static lost in a sea of marketing noise.  95% of the people who have played MMOs never played SWG. Many who played it never liked it. Most people who play MMOs don't spend any significant amount of time  on gaming forums. Many of the ones who do think you're a bunch of whiny nerds. There's not enough of you and you're not public enough to make an appreciable change in the market. 

 

I await your detailed and lengthy explanation of why the NGE did not succeed in its quest to garnish 1 bajillion subscriptions, since the vocal former player base certainly had nothing to do with it in an industry that relies mostly on word of mouth.  And everyone who has ever posted on a gaming forum is a whiny nerd at some point.  Sticks and stones...

QFE

Originally posted by Kylrathin

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Seriously? You're background static lost in a sea of marketing noise.  95% of the people who have played MMOs never played SWG. Many who played it never liked it. Most people who play MMOs don't spend any significant amount of time  on gaming forums. Many of the ones who do think you're a bunch of whiny nerds. There's not enough of you and you're not public enough to make an appreciable change in the market. 

 

I await your detailed and lengthy explanation of why the NGE did not succeed in its quest to garnish 1 bajillion subscriptions, since the vocal former player base certainly had nothing to do with it in an industry that relies mostly on word of mouth.  And everyone who has ever posted on a gaming forum is a whiny nerd at some point.  Sticks and stones...

Don't hold your breath. The game sucked before and after NGE. It didn't produce the numbers needed to matter and you don't either. Word of mouth may be a factor but in this casr it's not that big a factor. Too few mouths. You'll notice they didn't stop making games with many of the features of NGE.

cmon Z....

Are you trying to tell me that 250k mad ppl didn't affect NGE resale value?

Marketing should have been able to counteract a small vocal minority, but even the recent blog by that guy (Rubenfield?) that left SOE blamed markenting for dropping the ball...  it's Star wars....the most popular IP in history....right?  The angry player base steam rolled the media and they went into damage control instantly...  that's why Torres went on attack of the show and tried to belittle us all...saying we didn't matter....it's exactly why we mattered, because they had to say we didn't.

Tell me again that word of mouth didn't matter.

Originally posted by Faxxer

 

cmon Z....

Are you trying to tell me that 250k mad ppl didn't affect NGE resale value?

Marketing should have been able to counteract a small vocal minority, but even the recent blog by that guy (Rubenfield?) that left SOE blamed markenting for dropping the ball...  it's Star wars....the most popular IP in history....right?  The angry player base steam rolled the media and they went into damage control instantly...  that's why Torres went on attack of the show and tried to belittle us all...saying we didn't matter....it's exactly why we mattered, because they had to say we didn't.

Tell me again that word of mouth didn't matter.

NGE has no resale value. PRE-CU didn't either. The game was on a plunge to obscurity. If it weren't for station pass it wouldn't even exist now. The world moved on. What mattered is the game failed to reach projected profits. It was doing that with or without the uproar. It probably did more to set back sandbox games that any other before or since. The lesson learned was even with a big company like Sony and an IP like Star Wars sandbox games are failures. That's the wrong lesson but it's the one the industry took to heart. All the drama did was reinforce the lesson. So no word of mouth didn't really matter. In the end you're just pissing on the grave you didn't bury it. Sony did that.

250K is really stretching it. The game had maybe 25k hardcore fans most of whom remained silent to this day. Without NGE/CU it would have stabilized at maybe 50k subscriptions. If there are 5,000 people still vocal about it I'd be very surprised. Most moved on long ago.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Faxxer

 

cmon Z....

Are you trying to tell me that 250k mad ppl didn't affect NGE resale value?

Marketing should have been able to counteract a small vocal minority, but even the recent blog by that guy (Rubenfield?) that left SOE blamed markenting for dropping the ball...  it's Star wars....the most popular IP in history....right?  The angry player base steam rolled the media and they went into damage control instantly...  that's why Torres went on attack of the show and tried to belittle us all...saying we didn't matter....it's exactly why we mattered, because they had to say we didn't.

Tell me again that word of mouth didn't matter.

 

NGE has no resale value. PRE-CU didn't either. The game was on a plunge to obscurity. If it weren't for station pass it wouldn't even exist now. The world moved on. What mattered is the game failed to reach projected profits. It was doing that with or without the uproar. It probably did more to set back sandbox games that any other before or since. The lesson learned was even with a big company like Sony and an IP like Star Wars sandbox games are failures. That's the wrong lesson but it's the one the industry took to heart. All the drama did was reinforce the lesson. So no word of mouth didn't really matter. In the end you're just pissing on the grave you didn't bury it. Sony did that.

250K is really stretching it. The game had maybe 25k hardcore fans most of whom remained silent to this day. Without NGE/CU it would have stabilized at maybe 50k subscriptions. If there are 5,000 people still vocal about it I'd be very surprised. Most moved on long ago.

 

those silent ones that moved on.... you REALLY think that when games or gaming comes up in topic that they won't take a shot at NGE if it comes?  really?  they are silent on forums ya...but word of mouth...is LONG and STRONG my friend. ...and they may have moved on, but they're NOT silent.  When a person feels they got ripped off, they tell ppl to avoid the business they got ripped off from. ...always.  (Unless hard earned cash means nothing to them, in which case they don't fit the demographic either)

I don't know if we'll every now just how many subs came and went...Soe keeps that tightly guarded secret...But from the original swg boards...a post showed that they hit the panic button after NGE...WAY more ppl jumped ship than they ever dreamed of....  I'm sure somone can produce the post that backs that up...I don't post there ever since NGE. (I remain silent there.....but not here...and not in the world I am in either)  I work with a ton of IT ppl...and we all talk game every day...and they all knew about what swg turned into before i ever met them...how?  word of mouth.

p.s. what is that pic of for your board avatar?  It looks familiar but i can't quite place it...it's great.

"Remember, no matter what they say, that we won and we won big."

Like a Scientologist whose kid just died and all he has to say, "It was God's will."

I am sure YOU had everything to do with this, hooray for YOU!

Now you have a new Star Wars MMO and you STILL go on and on about SWG...

Word of mouth always matters. Before NGE I knew plenty of people asking about if they should try it. After NGE, If SWG came up in convo...most had already heard that it was a piece of junk not worth trying. I personally havent ran into anyone aside from the internet that had heard anything good about it.

 Word of mouth is a killer ....

Originally posted by Elowyn

Word of mouth always matters. Before NGE I knew plenty of people asking about if they should try it. After NGE, If SWG came up in convo...most had already heard that it was a piece of junk not worth trying. I personally havent ran into anyone aside from the internet that had heard anything good about it.

 Word of mouth is a killer ....

Does it really matter if you shoot a corpse? The pre release buzz was SWG was a bug-ridden incomplete mess.  People still bought it. Word of mouth was AoC would be crapware. People still bought it. A lot of people. The word of mouth was right. The outrage was epic.  People still pay to  play it. People are still buying it.  For how long I wouldn't care to guess.

Word of mouth didn't kill SWG SOE/LA did. Don't confuse effect for cause.

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Originally posted by zymurgeist

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Originally posted by Kylrathin

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Originally posted by zymurgeist

Seriously? You're background static lost in a sea of marketing noise.  95% of the people who have played MMOs never played SWG. Many who played it never liked it. Most people who play MMOs don't spend any significant amount of time  on gaming forums. Many of the ones who do think you're a bunch of whiny nerds. There's not enough of you and you're not public enough to make an appreciable change in the market. 

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I await your detailed and lengthy explanation of why the NGE did not succeed in its quest to garnish 1 bajillion subscriptions, since the vocal former player base certainly had nothing to do with it in an industry that relies mostly on word of mouth.  And everyone who has ever posted on a gaming forum is a whiny nerd at some point.  Sticks and stones...

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Don't hold your breath. The game sucked before and after NGE. It didn't produce the numbers needed to matter and you don't either. Word of mouth may be a factor but in this casr it's not that big a factor. Too few mouths. You'll notice they didn't stop making games with many of the features of NGE.

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Now to be fair, the customers don't get the credit ESSENTIALLY, eother way. SOE is completely at fault for failing and creating the negative word of mouth that has made them a failure and unable to have a successful game. bad management has caused all their games to either stagnate or fail.

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Originally posted by zymurgeist

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Originally posted by Elowyn

Word of mouth always matters. Before NGE I knew plenty of people asking about if they should try it. After NGE, If SWG came up in convo...most had already heard that it was a piece of junk not worth trying. I personally havent ran into anyone aside from the internet that had heard anything good about it.
 Word of mouth is a killer ....

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Does it really matter if you shoot a corpse? The pre release buzz was SWG was a bug-ridden incomplete mess.  People still bought it. Word of mouth was AoC would be crapware. People still bought it. A lot of people. The word of mouth was right. The outrage was epic.  People still pay to  play it. People are still buying it.  For how long I wouldn't care to guess.
Word of mouth didn't kill SWG SOE/LA did. Don't confuse effect for cause.

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Now you are going into the "goes without saying" part of the discussion. Of course the primary cause is SOE (also LA to a lesser extent). But that generated the bad word of mouth that helped kill it, to the eextent that it is dead. It has also helped hurt alltheir other games, which also are bad in and of themselves, and thus generate their own negative word-of-mouth.

the EFFECT is people not buying the game. The primary cause is SOE. bad word-of-mouth is BOTH an effect and then supsequently a secondary cause.

The primary cause gets BLAME, the secondary cause 9which is also an effect), deserves CREDIT. That's the contextual difference we are dealing with.