General Discussion

In the end the only thing that matters is where you put your money.

Have problem with a game or service, can it and find a new one.  Nothing says your forced to keep shelling out $$$ to some faceless corp.

Or be a slave to the machine, step into line and follow the sheep.

Originally posted by neonaka

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by Vrika

I think the laws are ridiculous when a player is allowed to play a game he owns, but not allowed to use a software wich copies the game to RAM to run the game.

He specifically states that the use of it by players is infringing on Blizzard's copyright with his verdict, thereby making it illegal.

I think it's not hard to make a case that an emulator running WoW is at least just as much infringing on WoW's copyright, if not more so.

 

Everyone just keep eating this shit up.... What amazes me is that gamers are to ****ing stupid to realize that with a ruling like this, the courts are and will continue, to eat away at every right you "think" you have, and eventually take them all away.

Good job Blizzard, you just opened a door for the legal system in the good ol us of A (gag) to pretty much tell me what I can have on MY computer. Something I paid in upwards of $4000.00 for but soon might as well be a paper weight, because all the courts are going to let me have on the damn thing is a copy of WoW, and pinball.... oh and Microsoft products..... yay!!!! Im so damn happy right now!

 

Man I wish people were smarter, I wish I could even give people the benefit of the doubt that we even deserve to exist....

 

Police state here we come !!! WOOHOO!

honestly!?!?! are you kidding me?

you really said that.

are you paying the thousands and thousands of dollars it costs to house all those servers for one single shard of wow? no i dont think so. you own the software that runs the client that LOGS onto a remote server of wow. you dont own the server. you play on it using software that accesses it. but no thats cool lets continue to load third party software into the ram of the computer that will run the program exploiting the system, client, and server completely so someone can cheat and get ahead most likely to sell gold for money raising up the entire server economy and ruining it for everyone playing so they have to start spending extra money to buy gold to keep up with those that cheat. 

come on everyone! lets all buy some bots so we can all ruin the game together! so we don't have to worry about this country turning into a police state! because the correlation between the two is completely attingent with eachother!

thanks for pointing that out! i never would of noticed had you not send anything.

Originally posted by Urdig

Originally posted by xephonics

Originally posted by Urdig

This goes far beyond botting, and Blizzard and the court should have taken a more lawful aproach.

 

You are saying you know more about the law than the judge and the blizzard lawyers?  Are you a lawyer or Judge?

I know I never leased a copy of WoW and that is what the judge determined in order to give his ruling.

Actually you did.  The moment you clicked accept on the EULA where is specifically states:

"1. Grant of a Limited Use License. If you agree to this License Agreement, computer software (hereafter referred to as the "Game Client") will be installed onto your hardware. If your hardware meets the minimum requirements, the installation of the Game Client will enable you to play the Game by accessing your account with the Service (your "Account"). Subject to your agreement to and continuing compliance with this License Agreement, Blizzard hereby grants, and you hereby accept, a limited, non-exclusive license to (a) install the Game Client on one or more computers owned by you or under your legitimate control, and (b) use the Game Client in conjunction with the Service for your non-commercial entertainment purposes only. All use of the Game Client is subject to this License Agreement and to the Terms of Use agreement, both of which you must accept before you can use your Account to play the Game. "

You can say you don't agree, but the judge agreed with Blizzard that you did in fact license the software.  End of argument.

And by the way this happened PRIOR to you playing the game, so for you to claim the judge determined this now, 3 years after you bought the software is incorrect.  You agreed to the fact that you were licensing the software 3 years ago whether you knew it or not.  You had to to play the game.

Right. After you clicked.

The judge determined it was at point of sale.

That has been the argument.

Anyway...

Originally posted by bachanam

I don't like how they go about determining at what point the bot becomes an illegal violation of the blizzard agreement.

Ban bots, sure, but to say it's illegal for me to load software while another software is currently loaded, on my personal computer, at home, is...........

"loading into memory" ... excuse me? dont you mean "accessed while playing" or "loaded while playing" or "executed while playing" ? why is just simply loading it into memory while the game is running, a violation?

For standard arguements that works fine, but for a Court to determine something like that, is going beyond boundaries that i guarantee you are not allowed by the people for the courts. Watch your step courts, you are walking on protected ground. I'll load whatever i want, whenever i want, however i want, on my personal computer, while any  program in the world that i so choose, is running simultaneously. Out of spite for an over-extended ruling, I will even Execute the bot while WoW is currently up and running on my computer.

Don't tell me what i can and cant have on my computer, especially when a bot doesnt break any U.S. laws. It is essentially an airsoft gun, it only becomes a problem when you shoot it at people, in this case the people are WoW. I can understand saying don't execute this bot while executing wow, because that would constitute aiming the airsoft at a person, and using the bots abilities to manipulate wow, would be like shooting a pellet at a person, in terms of law and court's range of law, but to tell me i cant even load the program into my memory while wow is installed/running, well... now you're putting words/actions into my mouth/hand, and telling me that i am Going to do things i might not have even thought of, well no i am not.

What says I'm going to use the bot? What says I'm not going to analyse it's code to determine something for my own reasons that Don't violate any blizzard agreement? What if I just coincidentally had WoW and the bot running, never used a bot in wow before, never will, and i am alt tabbed from wow examining the bot and checking it out, with no intention of using it, am i still breaking the LAW (once ruled by a court, it becomes court-mandated law) ? If you tell me face to face, that is breaking the law, I will guarantee that we will rise up, and put an end to this run-away train of rediculousness. We are in control, We don't see it as a guaranteed problem, We are very protective over our rights.

Ban my account blizzard, but don't go crying to the court systems. I guarantee you blizzard, your karma is at an all-time negative, so if you enjoy your 1990's diablo1 pc hacking, and your 2008 wow bot lawsuits, i suggest you end your company now, before we do it for you.

 

Bottom line: 

When you installed WoW, you clicked on a button that essentially said "I promise not to use bots." 

Your promise was a condition to obtaining a license to Blizzard's intellectual property. 

You broke your promise.  Your  license is null and void, so every time you load the game or download a patch without permission, you are infringing on Blizzard's copyright, plain and simple.

If you don't like it, play a different game.

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Originally posted by rikilii

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Originally posted by bachanam

I don't like how they go about determining at what point the bot becomes an illegal violation of the blizzard agreement.
Ban bots, sure, but to say it's illegal for me to load software while another software is currently loaded, on my personal computer, at home, is...........
"loading into memory" ... excuse me? dont you mean "accessed while playing" or "loaded while playing" or "executed while playing" ? why is just simply loading it into memory while the game is running, a violation?
For standard arguements that works fine, but for a Court to determine something like that, is going beyond boundaries that i guarantee you are not allowed by the people for the courts. Watch your step courts, you are walking on protected ground. I'll load whatever i want, whenever i want, however i want, on my personal computer, while any  program in the world that i so choose, is running simultaneously. Out of spite for an over-extended ruling, I will even Execute the bot while WoW is currently up and running on my computer.
Don't tell me what i can and cant have on my computer, especially when a bot doesnt break any U.S. laws. It is essentially an airsoft gun, it only becomes a problem when you shoot it at people, in this case the people are WoW. I can understand saying don't execute this bot while executing wow, because that would constitute aiming the airsoft at a person, and using the bots abilities to manipulate wow, would be like shooting a pellet at a person, in terms of law and court's range of law, but to tell me i cant even load the program into my memory while wow is installed/running, well... now you're putting words/actions into my mouth/hand, and telling me that i am Going to do things i might not have even thought of, well no i am not.
What says I'm going to use the bot? What says I'm not going to analyse it's code to determine something for my own reasons that Don't violate any blizzard agreement? What if I just coincidentally had WoW and the bot running, never used a bot in wow before, never will, and i am alt tabbed from wow examining the bot and checking it out, with no intention of using it, am i still breaking the LAW (once ruled by a court, it becomes court-mandated law) ? If you tell me face to face, that is breaking the law, I will guarantee that we will rise up, and put an end to this run-away train of rediculousness. We are in control, We don't see it as a guaranteed problem, We are very protective over our rights.
Ban my account blizzard, but don't go crying to the court systems. I guarantee you blizzard, your karma is at an all-time negative, so if you enjoy your 1990's diablo1 pc hacking, and your 2008 wow bot lawsuits, i suggest you end your company now, before we do it for you.
 

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Bottom line: 
When you installed WoW, you clicked on a button that essentially said "I promise not to use bots." 
Your promise was a condition to obtaining a license to Blizzard's intellectual property. 
You broke your promise.  Your  license is null and void, so every time you load the game or download a patch without permission, you are infringing on Blizzard's copyright, plain and simple.
If you don't like it, play a different game.

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Agreed, why does this seem like such a hard concept for people to grasp? I applaud Blizzard's efforts, whether the reason they pursued this case was motivated by money or not, I'm glad that they're shoving their foot up this guy's a$$ and pretty much saying "We will not allow cheaters to win and destroy OUR game" it shows they have more spine than SOE who simply gave up and said "Ok, I guess we can't stop them because we're too chicken $*it so we might as well join the RMT 'rebellion' or 'new era' or whatever the heck you want to call it"

Originally posted by Urdig

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Mylon

 

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What you think really doesn't matter. He violated the rules and now he's paying for it.

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This has to be one of the dumbest statements I have ever heard. Rules are not made simply to be rules, but because in some way they are meant to be for the benefit of all. That is, someone thought, (think, in the past tense), that such a rule would bring about the best possible outcome for everyone involved. People are constantly thinking of new rules and changes to existing rules or thinking of new interpretations of existing rules all to achieve that "best for all" approach.

And generally I consider the rights of the consumer more important than letting Blizzard punish one man for demonstrating excellent software-assisted automation expertise. This kind of man could very well be writing a robot that picks tomatoes for us so we never have to worry about salmonella poisoning.

 

Well then, he is sqanerding his talent and should know better that he should have been working on the robot. Live and Learn.

If I had a business and someone was doing something that I thought was detrimental to the business I would sue him until I couldn't sue "no more".

Well, first I'd ask him to stop. Then I'd sue if he didn't. That seems more fair.

 

But he wasn't doing anything detrimental to the business.  He was making money off of it and that's what blizzard wanted to stop.

All you people that keep lauding Blizzard need to get your heads out of your rears.

BLIZZARD DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE BOTTING YOU COULD DO.  THEY SUED 2 COMPANIES FOR MAKING MONEY OFF OF WOW.  Not becaues the program allowed you to bot.  Thier actions are not motivated for your benefit, it's motivated by greed.  They don't want anyone other then Blizzard making money off WoW.  I don't disagree with that, I honestly say go for it, but not at our expence.

Again.
This has nothing to do with the players.  Glider was a sold product that made a man MILLIONS, and it made money off Blizzard.  Blizzard doesn't like that.

They sued the gold site because it made money for someone other then Blizzard, not because it effected the players.  When are you people going to get it.

Edit:  I saw a really jaded comment earlier that Blizz doesn't care about the money, they only want to stop the botting.  You're a fool if you think that.  This entire thing is about one man making a lot of money off of a Blizzard product, that, and only that.  It has nothing to do with botting.  It's about business.  You're also a fool if you think that Blizzard wont seek monetary compensation if the ruling stands.  Hell yes they will, that's why they went after the bot program that mad MILLIONS.  Sure as hell they will be seeking the magority of that money.

Nice conspiracy theory, but pretty foolish.

It might make sense if Blizzard was selling a competing bot program, or selling gold.  But they are not.  Instead, Blizzard is SPENDING huge sums of money to enforce the TOS and EULA, and prevent gold spammers and botters from ruining the game for everyone else.  The only thing they gain from these efforts is that the vast majority of their players will likely be a little bit happier with the game.  Will that make Blizzard more money?  Sure, but doing right by your customers often does.

By the way, there's another important point all the knee-jerk Blizzard haters are missing here.  When we click on "Accept" and agree not to use bots, it is also fair for us to expect that Blizzard will do whatever it can to protect our experience by preventing others from botting.  If they don't, the the vast majority of players who don't want bots in the game are not getting what they paid for.

PS:  When did it become a sin for corporations to try to make money?  Last I checked, Blizzard has an obligation to its shareholders to maximize its profits to the full extent legally and ethically possible.  If you don't like the rules, vote with your feet, spend your money on a game that is infested with bots and gold sellers.  Then maybe Blizzard will get the message and copy that game.