General Discussion

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by swgtester1

 

really i think we are owed alot of things

i think we are owed a world that was stolen from us 250k people cried when that world was stolen and replaced with the worst mmo game to date. we are owed for all the time we spent in that world crafting and pvping and making jedi toons. we are owed for we are players who $OE backstabbed and lied too and stole from.

$OE owes us a sorry they owe us our money back and they owe us for all the time we spent in a world that they got rid of in order to make star warcraft. bioware owes us as we are the core group that kotor online must win over. and we have told bioware what we want we want a pre-cu system with pvp alpha classes and sandbox game play.

we are owed a world and me and other vets want it back. and many others who wish for a sandbox mmo game want pre-cu back to. bioware and $OE owe us that much.

 

Really...no comment.

 

I really hope that BioWare does not listen to you people. I really hope BioWare just sticks to what they do and what they do well instead of trying to cater to a bunch of disgruntled people (disgruntled by another company no less).

 

And no, you are not the core-group that BioWare MUST win over. There's plenty of people who will play the game even if it is NOT -your- version of perfection (i.e. SWG Original). The game won#t die because -you- say it has to and it won#t live because -you- say it has to.

 

Seriously. The self importance of the SWG-Vets is kinda frightening at times.

i agree. Bioware oesnt owe SWG players(myself included) a damn thing! SOE owes you if anyone. You guys gotta let that stuff go already.
 

Yeah, another thread I can add my 2 cents to...

KOTOR =/= SWG or SWG 2 or anything even close to SWG in any way, shape or form...

KOTOR will be a great MMO, but it will not replace SWG...

I don't know why thats so hard to figure out...

Oh ya, cause I haven't been beating my head against a brick wall for 3 years, thats why...

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by Azure77

Originally posted by markoraos

While OP is being somewhat dramatic I'd say that there is some truth here.

Bioware is known for making great CRPGs..... which are a completely different ballgame than MMORPGs.

If they try to simply copy-paste gameplay principles that made their single-player RPGs great into a MMORPG they'll very probably fail  miserably... regardless of the rest of the gameplay's quality.

A recent example is AoC: Single player <> Multiplayer.

You can't build a game on single-player paradigm, slap multiplayer capability on it and call it a MMO. It doesn't work that way. MMORPGs intrinsically abhor "hero's journey" paradigm that is bread and butter to single-player RPGs.

My hopes for this title aren't very high, to say the least, not until I see the way they plan to configure the game as a whole.

 

   Apply what you know is the rule , look at Dragon Age , and look at the games Bioware has made so far. They are storylines , choice driven , and well done hitting the mark they are aimed at.

          Storydriven doesnt mean it has to be linear for example :

                You begin in the Jedi temple as a student , follow a NPC master on your first couple of missions , until you become a knight. As knight the counsil sends you via radio or whatever the hell missions , you re choice to follow the counsil or not , is your story.

           Youre missions might range from talking a peace deal to some aliens , to hunting down a rogue Jedi , to stopping a plot to kill someone. Mix in the missions are choices , does the Jedi guy smuggle drugs to this planet , and earn some coins?

      

 

Lol, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

In all good faith you just described an exemplary single-player game. I don't see a MMO anywhere.

This is just the pitfall AoC fell in. Basically single-player thing with some other people around. The concept is all wrong.

IMO AoC could have been a great single player game. Heck it is a single player game with some people hanging around. Its core concept, the way the game works, the reason why people play is not MMO. It is a single-player "hero's journey" thing. LotRO is pretty much the same, it could have had 10x more subs if it weren't a single player game with MMO chucked in.

The way publishers think these days is as follows: "MMOs - the way to take those 15$ monthly subs along with the box sales.  Let's just do that single-player we were working on and make it multiplayer to get at those fat subs." It's pathetic.. because they forget that in order to retain those subs you have to keep people interested for prolonged periods of time. And you can't do that with a single-player scripted disposable content paradigm. Oh no, you have to actually make a self-sustaining online world and that is something very few devs managed to accomplish so far.

My fear is that this KOTOR MMO will get awesome sales, people will play it like mad for a month or two and then grow inexplicably bored... good bye those fat subs. Just like AoC. Don't get me wrong - I'm sure it's going to be polished and fun like you wouldn't believe, definitely worth every penny, but people won't have the reason to keep subbing after they've exhausted the pre-scripted content.

/add...

It is exactly the elaborate storylines (no matter how multi-choice they are) that work in distinct stages that is one of the worst ways to do a MMO. Just stop and think. You've got players scattered across all those various stages of various quests and stories... How are they going to catch up, meet and socialize? Lol "Hey I'm on 3rd stage of the 5th quest from the storyline c. What quest are you doing?.... Oh too bad, guess there's no point in us playing together then."

See? It is exactly the thing which makes single-players great that is the death knell to MMORPGs.

after reviewing all teh games i have from bioware, and what we know about teh team and money they have on teh project. Im confident this will be an incredible game. It wont be perfect. not everyone will like it, and im sure there will be things i dont like much about it, but i know overall i will love it. BIOWARE isnt some half ass developer. That name holds REAL WEIGHT.

Why should Bioware care the least of anything SOE have done? As long as they just keep Lucasart as far as possible for everything, they will deliver an intresting game, they usually do.

How many players did really even play the pre-Cu? How big % are they of the market and do you even have the right to expect another company to fix someone else mess?

But, yes... The game will be based on the D20 star wars for good and bad. And as someone said it might be more of a solo game with others around (like Guildwars I assume?) or not, but we don't know that yet.

AoC did make the misstake that almost everything can be played solo (they are starting to change that now, some of the dungeons you could play solo before is now only group) and while I still enjoy Guildwars, I like to group and interact with others. But to say that Bioware will do the same is way to early, wait and see.

Bioware is one of the best companies in the bussiness, the only thing that worries my is that Lucas art is one of the worst. 

Originally posted by jadan2000

 

after reviewing all teh games i have from bioware, and what we know about teh team and money they have on teh project. Im confident this will be an incredible game. It wont be perfect. not everyone will like it, and im sure there will be things i dont like much about it, but i know overall i will love it. BIOWARE isnt some half ass developer. That name holds REAL WEIGHT.

I agree completely. Bioware is a real gem of a game company and I'm sure it's going to set a few new quality benchmarks with their Kotor MMO...

However, I fear that it is exactly their experience that might prove their downfall in the long run. What's awesome in a single-player may be horrible for a MMO.

I really hope they keep in mind that they are making a massively multiplayer game that derives its longevity from the social aspect of its gameplay.  If they prove to be flexible enough I'm sure it's going to turn out great. However, if they blindly stick to some of those things that made their previous games so successful they might be heading into the first flop of their careers.

SWG vets that want a pre-cu SWG are all going to be very disappointed... it will not happen

Bioware will make the game THEY want (and their paymasters), and it will be done their way. I just hope they make it sandbox or i'll definately NOT be amoung their subscribers.

Originally posted by markoraos

It is exactly the elaborate storylines (no matter how multi-choice they are) that work in distinct stages that is one of the worst ways to do a MMO. Just stop and think. You've got players scattered across all those various stages of various quests and stories... How are they going to catch up, meet and socialize? Lol "Hey I'm on 3rd stage of the 5th quest from the storyline c. What quest are you doing?.... Oh too bad, guess there's no point in us playing together then."

See? It is exactly the thing which makes single-players great that is the death knell to MMORPGs.

 very well illustrated

Just because it's not made by SOE I'll buy the game ;)

I'll even buy a collector edition for myself and another box for my wife as I know Bioware games are FUN and highly polished.

Originally posted by Draccan

There are tons of disgruntled SWG players who will take aim at this mmo if it is yet another non-sandbox, level based linear crap game with no real pvp.

I'm one of thos disgruntled ex SWG players and I expect Biowares Star Wars MMO to be class, level, loot, linear based and it doesn't bother me at all (although I won't play it if it is designed like that). Why? because they will start from the very beginning of the game like that and then won't change it into a 180 degree opposite design that they know the current players don't want and lie about it while they are doing it.