Originally posted by Hoplites

Originally posted by banthis

Originally posted by Hoplites

It is self explantory.

More options may be better but then there is less focus on the spirit of traditional RvR play.

 

 

That makes no sense...so are you saying traditional RvR is basically an exlusive activity that only players with several hours a night get to enjoy?  That only players who enjoy Open PvP should get to enjoy? That only GUILDS should enjoy it?  How can you even argue that in this day and age when its been proven that games that limit their scopes to only one type of player ultimately fall on their face or just never reach the population needed to support itself properly. 

Look at Lord of the Rings its incredibly exclusive and while it has a decent player base its nothing phenomenal; it also doesn't require a large amount of players.    Look at Shadowbane ..for the game to truely be enjoyable it needs a large player base.  But its pretty exclusive in the type of player it caters too and even without its techincal difficulties over the years it would of stayed at the medicore not quite there level regardless. 

Scenarios does not take away from the spirit of RvR.

 

Not all games made need to cater to the casual.

 

They need to find a balance so that casuals can have fun and hardcores can have fun as well. I think they've found a pretty good balance. I feel casuals should have just as much chance to have fun as hardcores do.

Not all games made need to cater to the casual.

Gaming is a business.  Making games has become outrageously expensive.  Making a big budget game for only the hardcore fans is not good business.  The question is can they make a game that can have the depth that the hardcore players desire, while still appealing to the casual players, who fund the game for the hardcore crowd. 

What happens when a company makes a big budget game for the hardcore only crowd?  Vanguard.

Originally posted by Satarious

Originally posted by starbead

Of course, Mythic could screw it up.  If the scenarios are the quickest and easiest way to accrue the benefits of RvR, then Open World PvP will suffer.  Just like the stupid Arena system made any other form of PvP in WoW a waste of time.  There are many ways that Mythic can head this off, though.  I think that it would be best to wait and see if scenarios are "easy mode" RvR and detract from the open world experience or if Mythic puts barriers in place to keep the power players from using the casual, instanced system to hasten progression instead of taking in all aspects of the RvR if they have the time.

This is exactly the way I see it.  Time will only tell.  But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.

I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs.  When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing:  Instances for people to farm RPs.  You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after  awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only:  RPs (and phat lootz by extension).  The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point.  I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.

Please tell me how you get this when MOST of the content is all open world?   Even the dungeons except for the boss are OPEN.   The cities sieges have 1 out of 4 stages that is instanced. Scenarios are limted to 1 per Realm until I believe Teir 3 or 4 I'll have to check the website again.    MOST of the game PvE & RvR are al Open world. 

Originally posted by starbead

Not all games made need to cater to the casual.

Gaming is a business.  Making games has become outrageously expensive.  Making a big budget game for only the hardcore fans is not good business.  The question is can they make a game that can have the depth that the hardcore players desire, while still appealing to the casual players, who fund the game for the hardcore crowd. 

What happens when a company makes a big budget game for the hardcore only crowd?  Vanguard.

Actually look at the hardcore games that are still around (L1,L2, FF11, EQ, UO, etc) and compare to the casual games still around. 

I am currently playing AoC and WoW as a change of pace.  Casual gaming has its place but when the MMORPG developers feel they have to cater to them in every MMORPG then that is when my "fun" suffers so casuals can have "fun".

I need a bit of clarification....

Open World PvP/RvR consists of taking over keeps, forts, and then end game city sieges, right? Are these zones themselves separate sectioned off zones? Like say zone A.) is The Great Beyond where you level and farm stuff, but then zone B is where you go to RvR?

I guess what I'm trying to ask is are there specific zones where open PvP/RvR is to happen in concerns with taking over keeps/forts. Because I remember them saying that if a high level tried to go into a lower RvR zone they would become a chicken.

If that's the case...doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of Open World PvP? I mean, RvR are the two opposing realms fighting eachother, right? So it's basically like alliance vs. horde. Why can't the whole Open World have PvP that matters/counts towards RvR? Can I not gain xp off of someone unless I kill them in a specific zone?

This damn thread has seriously confused me....

Originally posted by Retrad

I need a bit of clarification....

 

Open World PvP/RvR consists of taking over keeps, forts, and then end game city sieges, right? Are these zones themselves separate sectioned off zones? Like say zone A.) is The Great Beyond where you level and farm stuff, but then zone B is where you go to RvR?

 

I guess what I'm trying to ask is are there specific zones where open PvP/RvR is to happen in concerns with taking over keeps/forts. Because I remember them saying that if a high level tried to go into a lower RvR zone they would become a chicken.

 

If that's the case...doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of Open World PvP? I mean, RvR are the two opposing realms fighting eachother, right? So it's basically like alliance vs. horde. Why can't the whole Open World have PvP that matters/counts towards RvR? Can I not gain xp off of someone unless I kill them in a specific zone?

 

This damn thread has seriously confused me....

you get xp for no matter where ou kill someone, open or scenario. The difference is that open pvp is huge, involving alot of time, seiging, cities, etc. Scenarios are like wow battlegrounds, quick, fun minimal reward. Caters to those who only want to do ashort skirmish with little risk/reward.

Originally posted by Hoplites

Originally posted by starbead

Not all games made need to cater to the casual.

Gaming is a business.  Making games has become outrageously expensive.  Making a big budget game for only the hardcore fans is not good business.  The question is can they make a game that can have the depth that the hardcore players desire, while still appealing to the casual players, who fund the game for the hardcore crowd. 

What happens when a company makes a big budget game for the hardcore only crowd?  Vanguard.

 

Actually look at the hardcore games that are still around (L1,L2, FF11, EQ, UO, etc) and compare to the casual games still around. 

I am currently playing AoC and WoW as a change of pace.  Casual gaming has its place but when the MMORPG developers feel they have to cater to them in every MMORPG then that is when my "fun" suffers so casuals can have "fun".

 

 

O noez! I dun get wut I wuntz! Da rest ov da kidz get eet but I dun! Wut? Der r more ov dem? So wut? I WUNTZ WUT I WUNTZ!

Originally posted by Satarious

Originally posted by starbead

Of course, Mythic could screw it up.  If the scenarios are the quickest and easiest way to accrue the benefits of RvR, then Open World PvP will suffer.  Just like the stupid Arena system made any other form of PvP in WoW a waste of time.  There are many ways that Mythic can head this off, though.  I think that it would be best to wait and see if scenarios are "easy mode" RvR and detract from the open world experience or if Mythic puts barriers in place to keep the power players from using the casual, instanced system to hasten progression instead of taking in all aspects of the RvR if they have the time.

This is exactly the way I see it.  Time will only tell.  But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.

I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs.  When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing:  Instances for people to farm RPs.  You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after  awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only:  RPs (and phat lootz by extension).  The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point.  I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.

I have nothing against casual players. 

But instances that will cater to the casual players may end up sucking the life out of everything else.  May is the operating word becauase honestly we do not know at this point.  But history has shown this to be the case.

It is a juggling act that even Blizzard has difficulty maintaining to appease casuals and hardcore players.

Originally posted by Hoplites

Originally posted by starbead

Not all games made need to cater to the casual.

Gaming is a business.  Making games has become outrageously expensive.  Making a big budget game for only the hardcore fans is not good business.  The question is can they make a game that can have the depth that the hardcore players desire, while still appealing to the casual players, who fund the game for the hardcore crowd. 

What happens when a company makes a big budget game for the hardcore only crowd?  Vanguard.

 

Actually look at the hardcore games that are still around (L1,L2, FF11, EQ, UO, etc) and compare to the casual games still around. 

I am currently playing AoC and WoW as a change of pace.  Casual gaming has its place but when the MMORPG developers feel they have to cater to them in every MMORPG then that is when my "fun" suffers so casuals can have "fun".

 

 

i play EVE for my hardcore fix and wow for my casual fix. But come war, i will probably dropping both, since war has enough of both to get a good mix in.

Originally posted by Hoplites

Originally posted by Satarious

Originally posted by starbead

Of course, Mythic could screw it up.  If the scenarios are the quickest and easiest way to accrue the benefits of RvR, then Open World PvP will suffer.  Just like the stupid Arena system made any other form of PvP in WoW a waste of time.  There are many ways that Mythic can head this off, though.  I think that it would be best to wait and see if scenarios are "easy mode" RvR and detract from the open world experience or if Mythic puts barriers in place to keep the power players from using the casual, instanced system to hasten progression instead of taking in all aspects of the RvR if they have the time.

This is exactly the way I see it.  Time will only tell.  But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.

I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs.  When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing:  Instances for people to farm RPs.  You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after  awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only:  RPs (and phat lootz by extension).  The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point.  I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.

 

I have nothing against casual players. 

But instances that will cater to the casual players may end up sucking the life out of everything else.  May is the operating word becauase honestly we do not know at this point.  But history has shown this to be the case.

It is a juggling act that even Blizzard has difficulty maintaining to appease casuals and hardcore players.

 

 

man you would be a great politician

Not every game needs to cater to the casual

scenarions suck, open world pvp only

i play aoc and war (lol)

i got nothing against casuals

so tell us, what would you consider a good mix for a game....lets pretend you are a game designer for warhammer, how would you do it oh mr nostradamus of the gaming world?

Originally posted by demren

Scenarios is just more battleground bs with a different name.  Up until EA's take over and pr blitz RvR has always meant massive open world pvp.  Slowly but ever increasingly they have been changing the definition of RvR to mean something more scenario oriented.   In press releases and demonstrations RvR is now about scenarios mostly and nothing is mentioned about open pvp unless someone presses the issue directly.   With what over 12 scenarios that we do know about in WAR not including the cityseige scenarios, it seems most likely that, for those of us expecting open world pvp, the rug has been quietly pulled out from under us.

Edit:  Fixed incorrect spelling in title of post.

Dude...

1) there's over 30 scenarios (gasp)

2) You obviously haven't been following WAR's development closely because you'd know that exactly the opposite from your post is true. Scenarios were initially to have a much larger importance in WAR but due to beta feedback Mythic delayed the game, introduced keep sieges and did almost everything in its power besides kicking them out altogether to make world RvR the focus of the game. WAR got delayed almost 6 months because of this so I'm sure Mythic is quite aware what is one of the biggest turn-ons WAR offers (a hint: NOT scenarios).

3) Scenarios are a part of RvR... as per definition. You may not like them much (and I admit I'm a bit vary as well) but they ARE a part of the RvR system. A non-essential part tbs but a part nevertheless.

Go ahead and state why you don't like them, why do you think they're not so cool of an idea or if they'll destroy the RvR. However, don't go stating things that are obviously not true just in order to emphasize your point.

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Hoplites

Originally posted by Satarious

Originally posted by starbead

Of course, Mythic could screw it up.  If the scenarios are the quickest and easiest way to accrue the benefits of RvR, then Open World PvP will suffer.  Just like the stupid Arena system made any other form of PvP in WoW a waste of time.  There are many ways that Mythic can head this off, though.  I think that it would be best to wait and see if scenarios are "easy mode" RvR and detract from the open world experience or if Mythic puts barriers in place to keep the power players from using the casual, instanced system to hasten progression instead of taking in all aspects of the RvR if they have the time.

This is exactly the way I see it.  Time will only tell.  But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.

I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs.  When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing:  Instances for people to farm RPs.  You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after  awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only:  RPs (and phat lootz by extension).  The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point.  I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.

 

I have nothing against casual players. 

But instances that will cater to the casual players may end up sucking the life out of everything else.  May is the operating word becauase honestly we do not know at this point.  But history has shown this to be the case.

It is a juggling act that even Blizzard has difficulty maintaining to appease casuals and hardcore players.

 

 

man you would be a great politician

Not every game needs to cater to the casual

scenarions suck, open world pvp only

i play aoc and war (lol)

i got nothing against casuals

 

 

so tell us, what would you consider a good mix for a game....lets pretend you are a game designer for warhammer, how would you do it oh mr nostradamus of the gaming world?

 

 

I would stick to the spirit of RvR play fof Warhammer.  If people call it a clone of DAOC so be it at least it doesn't betray what the core RvR play is about.

Originally posted by Hoplites

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Hoplites

Originally posted by Satarious

Originally posted by starbead

Of course, Mythic could screw it up.  If the scenarios are the quickest and easiest way to accrue the benefits of RvR, then Open World PvP will suffer.  Just like the stupid Arena system made any other form of PvP in WoW a waste of time.  There are many ways that Mythic can head this off, though.  I think that it would be best to wait and see if scenarios are "easy mode" RvR and detract from the open world experience or if Mythic puts barriers in place to keep the power players from using the casual, instanced system to hasten progression instead of taking in all aspects of the RvR if they have the time.

This is exactly the way I see it.  Time will only tell.  But I'm still a bit nervous since the designers seem more inclined toward instances.

I honestly don't see the selling point of Scenarios over WoW BGs.  When you look at the core of it (without all the extra frills that WAR adds on), they're both basically the same thing:  Instances for people to farm RPs.  You can say "oh but there's purpose!" all you want, but after  awhile, I can guarantee you that most people in those scenarios will only care about one thing and one thing only:  RPs (and phat lootz by extension).  The way I see it, Open World RvR is a 180 degree difference from WoW and should be its strongest selling point.  I just hope the designers don't get too blinded by WoW's success to see that.

 

I have nothing against casual players. 

But instances that will cater to the casual players may end up sucking the life out of everything else.  May is the operating word becauase honestly we do not know at this point.  But history has shown this to be the case.

It is a juggling act that even Blizzard has difficulty maintaining to appease casuals and hardcore players.

 

 

man you would be a great politician

Not every game needs to cater to the casual

scenarions suck, open world pvp only

i play aoc and war (lol)

i got nothing against casuals

 

 

so tell us, what would you consider a good mix for a game....lets pretend you are a game designer for warhammer, how would you do it oh mr nostradamus of the gaming world?

 

 

 

I would stick to the spirit of RvR play fof Warhammer.  If people call it a clone of DAOC so be it at least it doesn't betray what the core RvR play is about.

 

noone said it was a DAOC clone....all we said is that the game represents DAOC more than WOW. REPRESENTS =/= Clone.

Just like a McDonald's hamburger represents a real hamburger

So you'd spend Millions of dollars to cater to a niche market? Yea...good luck on that bud.   You named all these old games like L1 and L2 well guess what not that many Western players populate either of those games because they are UBER grind games of the worst fashion.  EQ?  Hello the game's population is prettty damn dead these days it pales in comparison what it was, even DAoC does and UO most definitly pales..infact UO IS a casual game.

You can't make a game that needs LOTS of players to cater only to a niche market, not even EvE does that.  While it caters to a hardercore pvp market it caters alot to the economic & crafting market players as well, of course its PvP is so hardcore that its not a daily activity either.  

WAR's design requires alot of players and you certaintly aren't going to get that by telling players "well if you can't play 3 hours a day there's no way you can ever keep up so go somewhere else". 

I'm not defending casual play ... I am defending the right for all players to have activities in a game that matter whether its a hardcore activity or a casual activit MMOS have the ability to cater to BOTH but most would rather Niche themselves or presume they can get everyone to 'try' it and 'like' it which is bullshit and doesn't work.

MMOs are MMOS because they are MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER...if we're all payign 15 dollars we should all have activities to enjoy.  If you don't like everyone having something to do in a game then guess what..don't play it.  

btw the devs even in the OLD days never defined RvR as a hardcore only PvP open world activity. Only some players who only participated in RvR that way ever considered it that way. 

Originally posted by banthis

So you'd spend Millions of dollars to cater to a niche market? Yea...good luck on that bud.   You named all these old games like L1 and L2 well guess what not that many Western players populate either of those games because they are UBER grind games of the worst fashion.  EQ?  Hello the game's population is prettty damn dead these days it pales in comparison what it was, even DAoC does and UO most definitly pales..infact UO IS a casual game.

You can't make a game that needs LOTS of players to cater only to a niche market, not even EvE does that.  While it caters to a hardercore pvp market it caters alot to the economic & crafting market players as well, of course its PvP is so hardcore that its not a daily activity either.  

WAR's design requires alot of players and you certaintly aren't going to get that by telling players "well if you can't play 3 hours a day there's no way you can ever keep up so go somewhere else". 

I'm not defending casual play ... I am defending the right for all players to have activities in a game that matter whether its a hardcore activity or a casual activit MMOS have the ability to cater to BOTH but most would rather Niche themselves or presume they can get everyone to 'try' it and 'like' it which is bullshit and doesn't work.

MMOs are MMOS because they are MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER...if we're all payign 15 dollars we should all have activities to enjoy.  If you don't like everyone having something to do in a game then guess what..don't play it.  

btw the devs even in the OLD days never defined RvR as a hardcore only PvP open world activity. Only some players who only participated in RvR that way ever considered it that way. 

 

Those "dead games" are still played and still raking in money.

Millions have been spent on trying to cater to casual gamers and lure them away from WoW.  How have the results been up to this point?  How much money was lost in trying to lure in the casual market?

Funny but these niche games are still around even with the presence of a power house like WoW.  I wonder why that is the case....

I guess the question that needs to be answered is...

Which will have more importance in RvR...

Open world PvP or PvP scenarios? If it's Open World PvP, then that's good. If it is PvP scenarios, than that bad because who the hell will want to compete in World PvP where you get better rewards from BG?

Originally posted by Retrad

I guess the question that needs to be answered is...

 

Which will have more importance in RvR...

 

Open world PvP or PvP scenarios? If it's Open World PvP, then that's good. If it is PvP scenarios, than that bad because who the hell will want to compete in World PvP where you get better rewards from BG?

You'd be surprised how many people would rather play Open PvP over phat lewt.

Hop...if there are games out there that already cater to the hardcore, that already give the hardcore something and squash equality then why the whine?  Why the Whine that 1 game wants to give all types of players a chance to experience something that no other game really has?  Whats the big frigging flippity do da damn deal honestly?  How does it kill the spirit when RvR is about Realm Pride not "Elitists against everyone else" or "hardcores against casuals" it doesn't even stand as "open vs scenarios" since techincally scenarios didnt' even exist in MMOs when it started.  

How does it kill the spirit to Grow with the times and include more people? How does it do that?   If your worry is that 5,000 players on a server are only going to play a scenario then your out of your mind..Honestly I'd go crazy and so would anyone else to play the same couple of scenarios over and over and over again and only Open world for Sieging (which is why the game shut down beta last year because PEOPLE HATED IT!) 

If you KNEW anything about WAR you'd know its NOT possible to Siege & realm control without Open World and that people who want to Open World & own keeps (which can ONLY be done in open world and are NECESSARY) are going to Open World regardless of scenarios.  Your Realm has to Open World RvR in order to Siege.   They've said it countless times.  RvR is spiritualy intact but like any good concept its evolved to invite more people in to try it.  Thats not a bad thing.  A bad thing is being a close minded elitist jerk. (no im not flaming its just an example).

I'm sorry I just can't follow your attitude..honestly I think you just enjoy being hardcore and only wanting people to cater to you.  Your no different than the Raiders which is sad honestly.   I applaud Mythic for reaching to everyone and giving everyone a fair chance to have a good time. Peace out and enjoy Lineage 2 tell al the gankers and grinders hello for me.

Originally posted by banthis

Hop...if there are games out there that already cater to the hardcore, that already give the hardcore something and squash equality then why the whine?  Why the Whine that 1 game wants to give all types of players a chance to experience something that no other game really has?  Whats the big frigging flippity do da damn deal honestly?  How does it kill the spirit when RvR is about Realm Pride not "Elitists against everyone else" or "hardcores against casuals" it doesn't even stand as "open vs scenarios" since techincally scenarios didnt' even exist in MMOs when it started.  

How does it kill the spirit to Grow with the times and include more people? How does it do that?   If your worry is that 5,000 players on a server are only going to play a scenario then your out of your mind..Honestly I'd go crazy and so would anyone else to play the same couple of scenarios over and over and over again and only Open world for Sieging (which is why the game shut down beta last year because PEOPLE HATED IT!) 

If you KNEW anything about WAR you'd know its NOT possible to Siege & realm control without Open World and that people who want to Open World & own keeps (which can ONLY be done in open world and are NECESSARY) are going to Open World regardless of scenarios.  Your Realm has to Open World RvR in order to Siege.   They've said it countless times.  RvR is spiritualy intact but like any good concept its evolved to invite more people in to try it.  Thats not a bad thing.  A bad thing is being a close minded elitist jerk. (no im not flaming its just an example).

I'm sorry I just can't follow your attitude..honestly I think you just enjoy being hardcore and only wanting people to cater to you.  Your no different than the Raiders which is sad honestly.   I applaud Mythic for reaching to everyone and giving everyone a fair chance to have a good time. Peace out and enjoy Lineage 2 tell al the gankers and grinders hello for me.

 

The point is not that they should only cater to the open world enthusiasts, the point is that Open World RvR should get the main FOCUS over instanced BGs.  Right now, with the designers attitude about things, it seems to be backwards:  Instanced over Open.  Hell, even the ENTIRE City Siege is all instanced as it stands.  The entire city is just one big fat collection of instances in City Siege.  So when you roll up on a city, you get a menu of INSTANCES of the city to choose from.  Each instance is limited to 50-to-75 vs. 50-to-75.  Which basically breeds complete chaos since Guilds and Open Groups are sure to get separated.    Now I ask you, HOW LAME IS THAT?!  All of this has been discussed in the Massively article recently (which is entirely accurate).  Which just goes to prove my suspicions about the designers all along:  They want to focus on instances over Open.

Originally posted by Satarious

Originally posted by banthis

Hop...if there are games out there that already cater to the hardcore, that already give the hardcore something and squash equality then why the whine?  Why the Whine that 1 game wants to give all types of players a chance to experience something that no other game really has?  Whats the big frigging flippity do da damn deal honestly?  How does it kill the spirit when RvR is about Realm Pride not "Elitists against everyone else" or "hardcores against casuals" it doesn't even stand as "open vs scenarios" since techincally scenarios didnt' even exist in MMOs when it started.  

How does it kill the spirit to Grow with the times and include more people? How does it do that?   If your worry is that 5,000 players on a server are only going to play a scenario then your out of your mind..Honestly I'd go crazy and so would anyone else to play the same couple of scenarios over and over and over again and only Open world for Sieging (which is why the game shut down beta last year because PEOPLE HATED IT!) 

If you KNEW anything about WAR you'd know its NOT possible to Siege & realm control without Open World and that people who want to Open World & own keeps (which can ONLY be done in open world and are NECESSARY) are going to Open World regardless of scenarios.  Your Realm has to Open World RvR in order to Siege.   They've said it countless times.  RvR is spiritualy intact but like any good concept its evolved to invite more people in to try it.  Thats not a bad thing.  A bad thing is being a close minded elitist jerk. (no im not flaming its just an example).

I'm sorry I just can't follow your attitude..honestly I think you just enjoy being hardcore and only wanting people to cater to you.  Your no different than the Raiders which is sad honestly.   I applaud Mythic for reaching to everyone and giving everyone a fair chance to have a good time. Peace out and enjoy Lineage 2 tell al the gankers and grinders hello for me.

 

 

The point is not that they should only cater to the open world enthusiasts, the point is that Open World RvR should get the main FOCUS over instanced BGs.  Right now, with the designers attitude about things, it seems to be backwards:  Instanced over Open.  Hell, even the ENTIRE City Siege is all instanced as it stands.  The entire city is just one big fat collection of instances in City Siege.  So when you roll up on a city, you get a menu of INSTANCES of the city to choose from.  Each instance is limited to 50-to-75 vs. 50-to-75.  Which basically breeds complete chaos since Guilds and Open Groups are sure to get separated.    Now I ask you, HOW LAME IS THAT?!  All of this has been discussed in the Massively article recently (which is entirely accurate).  Which just goes to prove my suspicions about the designers all alone:  They want to focus on instances over Open.

1 part of the city siege is instances, so everyone can have a shot at it and play it.