It sounds like the same thing Funcom did to  get AoC out "on time;"  and ever since, there has been nearly nothing but bitching about releasing an incomplete product on these forums. 

Originally posted by battleaxe22

war is just gna be a wow clone anyway : /

aren't you informed!

Whose a cute troll! WHOSE a cute troll!

   --->  

Originally posted by kujii

It sounds like the same thing Funcom did to  get AoC out "on time;"  and ever since, there has been nearly nothing but bitching about releasing an incomplete product on these forums. 

Not.  Even.  Close.

Not only did Funcom wait until it was too late to cancel before announcing things not being in the game.  They also didn't listen to the beta players, didn't fix what was broken in beta, didn't give beta players the tools to properly test, and the /bug feature was even broken.  They also had their huge systems like Sieging totally broken, no DX10, raids broken/worthless at launch.

WAR cut 4 classes (We still have 20..) and 4 cities (They're focusing on 2 cities, and putting lots of content into them two).  They said they have no more plans to cut anything else, and the game isn't even CLOSE to as broken as AoC was at launch.

Originally posted by Avathos

daewonie,

First thanks for not flaming and just providing a hater answer.  I simpathize with your opinion of wanting to play the game as soon psible and wait or later for finished classes. My post was more intended to promise of sticking to the warhammer lore.

I also see your point regarding the cities, however, if I may let me turn he coin. By having all the cities, it gives the players the flexibility to attack different areas other then being force to attack the same darn place all the time. In WoW RvR is 2ndary but in WAR RvR and City sieges was the main focus of the game. Thats in addition, to my original point of the warhammer lore issue

Thanks for the reply

There is no such thing as RvR in WoW...period...ever...there is no POINT to fighting the otherside other than personal gain for gear.  It doesn't gain your Faction (thats right FACTION since REALM is not FACTION ) anything for killing other players (you should know this your in beta with us right?)  There is no point to raiding the other city other than personal satisifcation.   There is no Realm Pride, there is no Workig together as a 'realm' its merely PvE with some pvp elements for gear thats it.   You can't even take over someone else's city or territory which is the main purpose of RvR. 

Am I the only one that noticed this?!    Infact I'll basically call WoW a Guild Wars(i dont mean guild wars as in the mmo thats already out) game based on PvE because no one really helps anyone unless your in a guild, that sort of attitude doesn't fly in a RvR game.

While I agree it sucks we're missing 2 tanks and 2 melee dps characters it is NOT however lore breaking.  There's no where in lore that says every army has to have knights of the blazing sun or an orc choppa to be within lore.  It merely says they're part of the pool of regiments you can use.  By not allowing players access to play one of the missing classes in an MMO it does not eradicate them from the lore.  THey still exist, you still see them you just can't choose to play one just like you can't choose to play a Dwarven Slayer, but you do see one in the game.

If You think of the game as 1vs1 in battles then yes I suppose you feel you need a tank in every group to win, its a group game if your afraid of their tank have your group concentrate on the tank first then wipe out everyone else.  Since the Empire is allianced with 2 other races (gasps) if a person feels their group needs a tank class they can merely look for one elsewhere, that is the whole point to being allianced (gasp!). 

In a game thats all about war and fighting as a group you have to work with what you have access too, thats the nature honestly of any war game (and i dont mean warhammer I mean war games in general).    Instead of groups only being based on the 'ultimate' build people might actually have to use their brains and improvise how they fight on the field depending on their group make up.   Personally I find that a thrilling challenge (though I will miss the Choppa).

As for the missing cities...we're still getting End Game I think thats all that matters honestly.  If they said no cities or No sieging I could see all the crying.  By having 2 cities to concentrate on it does give us time to figure out the whole Sieging process so when MORE cities opens up we'll be ready and it'll be a fresh item to attack instead of burning outselves out on all six within the first year.

btw I think calling daewonie's post a hater answer was completely rude he was completely polite in his post to you. A hater answer would be telling you off.

Originally posted by kujii

It sounds like the same thing Funcom did to  get AoC out "on time;"  and ever since, there has been nearly nothing but bitching about releasing an incomplete product on these forums. 

It's not though. Funcom cut out entire features AND didn't tell their playerbase until they bought the game. Mythic is delaying -some- content (we still have all the features though), but has told their community months in advance. They've even suggested that if people were truly not happy, they could make their own delay until all the content is in.

lol fail-hammer thats good. but till the game is done and comes out we will not know. i hold high hopes for mark the gang to pull it off. but as i said only time will tell.

Originally posted by daewonie

The devs promised the release of WAR at the beginning of fall...... and in order to keep that promise and not deliver a game that is incomplete, they have decided to cut some things out until they can be improved.

Am I the only having trouble with this concept?  In order to not be incomplete, cut incomplete content?

At the end of the day Mythic can do what they want, and the consumer has the choice to buy or not, it's that simple.   My only issue is with the "truthful" excuse, and then everyone applauding their honestly like mindless robots.  I understand where you're coming from, with so many previous disaapointments from other MMO companies, it's a change to get any notice whatsoever...but, we're cutting because couldn't make the classes "GREAT"?!?!?  The game is better off with 2 cities at a time than 6?!?!? 

C'mon, in my opinion a half-truth is worse thana lie.  They fell behind and didn't want to delay again, and they were slacking on art and mechanics of these classes and cities, so they cut them.  It's not for the betterment of the game, it isn't ideal, and it will have some effect on the gameplay as a whole.  They just decided the pros of launching earlier outweigh the cons of shipping without some critical features the game was designed around... and I'm cool with that.  Just don't BS.

Originally posted by gFiz

Originally posted by daewonie

The devs promised the release of WAR at the beginning of fall...... and in order to keep that promise and not deliver a game that is incomplete, they have decided to cut some things out until they can be improved.

 

Am I the only having trouble with this concept?  In order to not be incomplete, cut incomplete content?

At the end of the day Mythic can do what they want, and the consumer has the choice to buy or not, it's that simple.   My only issue is with the "truthful" excuse, and then everyone applauding their honestly like mindless robots.  I understand where you're coming from, with so many previous disaapointments from other MMO companies, it's a change to get any notice whatsoever...but, we're cutting because couldn't make the classes "GREAT"?!?!?  The game is better off with 2 cities at a time than 6?!?!? 

C'mon, in my opinion a half-truth is worse thana lie.  They fell behind and didn't want to delay again, and they were slacking on art and mechanics of these classes and cities, so they cut them.  It's not for the betterment of the game, it isn't ideal, and it will have some effect on the gameplay as a whole.  They just decided the pros of launching earlier outweigh the cons of shipping without some critical features the game was designed around... and I'm cool with that.  Just don't BS.

So you have insider news on Mythic's real reasons? Please tell us everything!

Originally posted by Capn23

Originally posted by gFiz

Originally posted by daewonie

The devs promised the release of WAR at the beginning of fall...... and in order to keep that promise and not deliver a game that is incomplete, they have decided to cut some things out until they can be improved.

 

Am I the only having trouble with this concept?  In order to not be incomplete, cut incomplete content?

At the end of the day Mythic can do what they want, and the consumer has the choice to buy or not, it's that simple.   My only issue is with the "truthful" excuse, and then everyone applauding their honestly like mindless robots.  I understand where you're coming from, with so many previous disaapointments from other MMO companies, it's a change to get any notice whatsoever...but, we're cutting because couldn't make the classes "GREAT"?!?!?  The game is better off with 2 cities at a time than 6?!?!? 

C'mon, in my opinion a half-truth is worse thana lie.  They fell behind and didn't want to delay again, and they were slacking on art and mechanics of these classes and cities, so they cut them.  It's not for the betterment of the game, it isn't ideal, and it will have some effect on the gameplay as a whole.  They just decided the pros of launching earlier outweigh the cons of shipping without some critical features the game was designed around... and I'm cool with that.  Just don't BS.

 

So you have insider news on Mythic's real reasons? Please tell us everything!

you joined 14 days ago, and have 260+ posts, all in the WAR forum...  You seem like the expert?  You don't live in or around Fairfax, VA by chance do you?

Mythic is lucky for your timely sign-up and dedication of support, right around the time of this announcement.

Originally posted by gFiz

Originally posted by daewonie

The devs promised the release of WAR at the beginning of fall...... and in order to keep that promise and not deliver a game that is incomplete, they have decided to cut some things out until they can be improved.

 

Am I the only having trouble with this concept?  In order to not be incomplete, cut incomplete content?

At the end of the day Mythic can do what they want, and the consumer has the choice to buy or not, it's that simple.   My only issue is with the "truthful" excuse, and then everyone applauding their honestly like mindless robots.  I understand where you're coming from, with so many previous disaapointments from other MMO companies, it's a change to get any notice whatsoever...but, we're cutting because couldn't make the classes "GREAT"?!?!?  The game is better off with 2 cities at a time than 6?!?!? 

C'mon, in my opinion a half-truth is worse thana lie.  They fell behind and didn't want to delay again, and they were slacking on art and mechanics of these classes and cities, so they cut them.  It's not for the betterment of the game, it isn't ideal, and it will have some effect on the gameplay as a whole.  They just decided the pros of launching earlier outweigh the cons of shipping without some critical features the game was designed around... and I'm cool with that.  Just don't BS.

Cutting incomplete features or content to meet a deadline is standard business pratices in the software industry (and not just games) especially if said features or content doesnt' remove that basic requirements for the software to be usable.   In this case the removal of 4 classes adn 4 cities does not remove the basic requirements for the game to be considered feature complete.  Every feature they've sworn to in the last year is in the game.  We have end game still, we have keeps still, we have lots classes to choose from, we have open world rvr, scenarios, pq's, the tok, the dye system..etc etc. 

Essentially ever SYSTEM aka FEATURE they promised is there...the only difference is a few variation choices are gone.  These variatioins are techincally not necessary in order to deliver a complete project.  How ever if they were included at launch in their current state everyone would WHINE up a storm that they're subpar compared to X peice of content or the class SUCKS and ask for constant nerfs & buffs. 

Originally posted by Ascension08

Basically what you've said has been said alot so I'll just elaborate on your clever title...Failhammer or Warfail: Age of Failure or Warhamfailer...I bet we'll see alot of these lame variations when we get sooner to release.

Mythic knew it was a hard decision but they also knew how long it'd take to get what they wanted with the cities/classes...and they simply thought the delay would be too long and they wanted a solid launch, so they decided to put the incomplete things on hold and work on adding them in later. Tons of devs promise things then don't deliver; Mythic has the balls to do it 3 months before release so you can cancel your pre-order if you don't like it.

My vote's on Warhamfailer. LOL

Or howabout Failurehammer Offline: Age of Refunding

Originally posted by gFiz

Originally posted by Capn23

Originally posted by gFiz

Originally posted by daewonie

The devs promised the release of WAR at the beginning of fall...... and in order to keep that promise and not deliver a game that is incomplete, they have decided to cut some things out until they can be improved.

 

Am I the only having trouble with this concept?  In order to not be incomplete, cut incomplete content?

At the end of the day Mythic can do what they want, and the consumer has the choice to buy or not, it's that simple.   My only issue is with the "truthful" excuse, and then everyone applauding their honestly like mindless robots.  I understand where you're coming from, with so many previous disaapointments from other MMO companies, it's a change to get any notice whatsoever...but, we're cutting because couldn't make the classes "GREAT"?!?!?  The game is better off with 2 cities at a time than 6?!?!? 

C'mon, in my opinion a half-truth is worse thana lie.  They fell behind and didn't want to delay again, and they were slacking on art and mechanics of these classes and cities, so they cut them.  It's not for the betterment of the game, it isn't ideal, and it will have some effect on the gameplay as a whole.  They just decided the pros of launching earlier outweigh the cons of shipping without some critical features the game was designed around... and I'm cool with that.  Just don't BS.

 

So you have insider news on Mythic's real reasons? Please tell us everything!

 

you joined 14 days ago, and have 260+ posts, all in the WAR forum...  You seem like the expert?  You don't live in or around Fairfax, VA by chance do you?

Mythic is lucky for your timely sign-up and dedication of support, right around the time of this announcement.

 

 

Yet you still havn't told us your insider information.  I know you must be sleeping with one of the Devs to know the REAL reason why they are doing what they are doing.

Also found it funny that in the year you have been on theses boards you have contributed only  12 times to any conversation yet the person you attack who has been here less than a month has contributed 260+ times.

But thats only if you count how long they have been on the board and post counts

Originally posted by banthis

Cutting incomplete features or content to meet a deadline is standard business pratices in the software industry (and not just games) especially if said features or content doesnt' remove that basic requirements for the software to be usable.   In this case the removal of 4 classes adn 4 cities does not remove the basic requirements for the game to be considered feature complete.  Every feature they've sworn to in the last year is in the game.  We have end game still, we have keeps still, we have lots classes to choose from, we have open world rvr, scenarios, pq's, the tok, the dye system..etc etc. 

Essentially ever SYSTEM aka FEATURE they promised is there...the only difference is a few variation choices are gone.  These variatioins are techincally not necessary in order to deliver a complete project.  How ever if they were included at launch in their current state everyone would WHINE up a storm that they're subpar compared to X peice of content or the class SUCKS and ask for constant nerfs & buffs. 

Well this is the subjective part.  My view is the game has been advertised as three fronts in a constant state of war, Greenskins vs. Dwarfs, Empire vs. Chaos, High Elfs vs. Dark Elves.  How you can have fronts missing integral classes like TANKS, i don't know.  Actually I do know...you are either making a statment that the distiguishment and importance of classes is non-exhistent, which is bigger issue than any type of cut possible...or it is consequential and necessary but you're shipping the game incomplete.  You can't have yoru cake and eat it too, as the saying goes.

I don't mind WAR launching with cut content but it has to be good. I'm pretty sure the average player won't be blowing through the game that fast. By the time they want something new the other cities should be arriving.

No one promised you anything.  They told you what was planned.  There's a difference.  When you start developing an MMOG, you have know way of knowing exactly what you can or can't deliver by the release date.

Originally posted by gFiz

Originally posted by banthis

Cutting incomplete features or content to meet a deadline is standard business pratices in the software industry (and not just games) especially if said features or content doesnt' remove that basic requirements for the software to be usable.   In this case the removal of 4 classes adn 4 cities does not remove the basic requirements for the game to be considered feature complete.  Every feature they've sworn to in the last year is in the game.  We have end game still, we have keeps still, we have lots classes to choose from, we have open world rvr, scenarios, pq's, the tok, the dye system..etc etc. 

Essentially ever SYSTEM aka FEATURE they promised is there...the only difference is a few variation choices are gone.  These variatioins are techincally not necessary in order to deliver a complete project.  How ever if they were included at launch in their current state everyone would WHINE up a storm that they're subpar compared to X peice of content or the class SUCKS and ask for constant nerfs & buffs. 

 

Well this is the subjective part.  My view is the game has been advertised as three fronts in a constant state of war, Greenskins vs. Dwarfs, Empire vs. Chaos, High Elfs vs. Dark Elves.  How you can have fronts missing integral classes like TANKS, i don't know.  Actually I do know...you are either making a statment that the distiguishment and importance of classes is non-exhistent, which is bigger issue than any type of cut possible...or it is consequential and necessary but you're shipping the game incomplete.  You can't have yoru cake and eat it too, as the saying goes.

Alot of people want to break the Holy Trinity of tank, healer, DPS. "Roar I'm a guy in heavy armor and I'll draw the attention of this massive beast away from 20 of my friends who are burning, shooting, stabbing, crushing, blasting, zapping, and generally inflicting pain on it by...TAUNTING...calling it's momma fat." Yeah, that's so realistic. Not saying WAR will break anything, I'm sure tanks and healers and DPS all have their roles...but they blur the lines alot. Healers have to DPS to actually heal better, that sort of thing. I wouldn't be surprised if they made content less reliant on tanks, especially if they cut 2 of them from the launch, knowing the importance tanks have...in most MMOs.

Originally posted by oakae

I don't mind WAR launching with cut content but it has to be good. I'm pretty sure the average player won't be blowing through the game that fast. By the time they want something new the other cities should be arriving.

But graphics still look like crap.  I saw some later probably doctored screens that looked great.  Good definition and detail on models.  But vids tell another story.  I don't care how great the gameplay is if instead of feeling immersed I'm imagining how much better they could have made it look it ruins the whole experience.

Originally posted by gFiz

Originally posted by daewonie

The devs promised the release of WAR at the beginning of fall...... and in order to keep that promise and not deliver a game that is incomplete, they have decided to cut some things out until they can be improved.

 

Am I the only having trouble with this concept?  In order to not be incomplete, cut incomplete content?

At the end of the day Mythic can do what they want, and the consumer has the choice to buy or not, it's that simple.   My only issue is with the "truthful" excuse, and then everyone applauding their honestly like mindless robots.  I understand where you're coming from, with so many previous disaapointments from other MMO companies, it's a change to get any notice whatsoever...but, we're cutting because couldn't make the classes "GREAT"?!?!?  The game is better off with 2 cities at a time than 6?!?!? 

C'mon, in my opinion a half-truth is worse thana lie.  They fell behind and didn't want to delay again, and they were slacking on art and mechanics of these classes and cities, so they cut them.  It's not for the betterment of the game, it isn't ideal, and it will have some effect on the gameplay as a whole.  They just decided the pros of launching earlier outweigh the cons of shipping without some critical features the game was designed around... and I'm cool with that.  Just don't BS.

People are acting like they cut a huge amount of content.  The cities didn't make up a huge amount of content.  The doom and gloomers seem to forget every other MMO cut stuff, and on top of that they kept it hidden from the public.

So, in you opinion, you'd rather come launch day and find out about the missing content, rather than them telling us now?  The classes were there bud, they just weren't up to par.  Mythic has experienced constant buff/nerf to classes post launch, and they realize that's a HUGE downfall to MMOs, especially with their RvR.  They don't want to go through that, because if you buff/nerf one classes, you're going to have to do it to the others, and it's a constant cycle.

The cities weren't there, but Mythic admitted they were behind on the cities.  They decided instead of trying to finish all 6 cities and making mistakes, that it'd be better to focus on the quality of two cities.

I know it's a hard concept for a lot of doom and gloomers to understand, but for once a company is putting Quality > Quantity.  Like I said earlier, Mythic was upfront, and even blunt about if you don't like their choices about the development of the game, then you can cancel your preorder.  That is, after all, why they told us now instead of at launch.

It's not an easy job, they have to make choices that some of us won't like.  But in the end, I agree with Mark.  The ones that really cancel their preorders are a very small minority to the ones who will suck it up and move on, and the ones that understand why they did what they did.

Originally posted by jasonqdavis

Originally posted by gFiz

Originally posted by Capn23

Originally posted by gFiz

Originally posted by daewonie

The devs promised the release of WAR at the beginning of fall...... and in order to keep that promise and not deliver a game that is incomplete, they have decided to cut some things out until they can be improved.

 

Am I the only having trouble with this concept?  In order to not be incomplete, cut incomplete content?

At the end of the day Mythic can do what they want, and the consumer has the choice to buy or not, it's that simple.   My only issue is with the "truthful" excuse, and then everyone applauding their honestly like mindless robots.  I understand where you're coming from, with so many previous disaapointments from other MMO companies, it's a change to get any notice whatsoever...but, we're cutting because couldn't make the classes "GREAT"?!?!?  The game is better off with 2 cities at a time than 6?!?!? 

C'mon, in my opinion a half-truth is worse thana lie.  They fell behind and didn't want to delay again, and they were slacking on art and mechanics of these classes and cities, so they cut them.  It's not for the betterment of the game, it isn't ideal, and it will have some effect on the gameplay as a whole.  They just decided the pros of launching earlier outweigh the cons of shipping without some critical features the game was designed around... and I'm cool with that.  Just don't BS.

 

So you have insider news on Mythic's real reasons? Please tell us everything!

 

you joined 14 days ago, and have 260+ posts, all in the WAR forum...  You seem like the expert?  You don't live in or around Fairfax, VA by chance do you?

Mythic is lucky for your timely sign-up and dedication of support, right around the time of this announcement.

 

 

 

Yet you still havn't told us your insider information.  I know you must be sleeping with one of the Devs to know the REAL reason why they are doing what they are doing.

 

Also found it funny that in the year you have been on theses boards you have contributed only  12 times to any conversation yet the person you attack who has been here less than a month has contributed 260+ times.

 

But thats only if you count how long they have been on the board and post counts

or if they have multiple accounts Capn23.  Do you think me an idiot?  You have this account you're posting from registered for the last 5 years yet have only posted 8 times all in the Warhammer forums as well?  And usually as support for your own posts.  Good idea, agree with yourself on your posts under different accounts, so that someone actually agrees with you.  Genius.

Please stop beating this retarded horse over the head with sticks. This is a realm vs realm base game not a side vs side base game. 

Lets ake just little example of the cuts:

The Empire Warrior Priest / Bright Wizard / Witch Hunter (3/4)  VS

Chaos : Chosen / Zealot / Marauder / Magus (4/4)

This is a side vs side base example don't be fooled by this no brain idea.

Lets ake just little example of the cuts:

The Empire Warrior Priest / Bright Wizard / Witch Hunter / Iron Breaker / White Lion / Sword Master and etc. (6/6)  VS

Chaos : Chosen / Zealot / Marauder / Magus/ Witch Elf / Sorceress / Black Orc (6/6)

This is a realm vs realm if they are in your realm you can fight with them its that simple stop beating the dead horse there is no point. Myhtic is giving you 20 classes to choose from damn let it go. Give them a break they will have more classes in the time to come look at dark age of camelot enough said it has over 41 unique classes. Wait til the game comes out then unleash all your hate til then wait.