Originally posted by templarga

We chose to use our brain and take a shortcut to get what we wanted. They chose to make their ass numb. Don't get mad at us for being smarter than you.

You sound just like the students I teach when they get caight cheating. Cheating is the easy way out and it does not make you smarter.
 

So how are you so smart? Because you can find the illegal program and install it and use it to level? That does not make you smarter.

Cheat all you want but in the end, I know I leveled my characters legally and fairly. I like playing the game and not just aspects of the game.
 

but please "shortcuts" make nobody smarter....just makes them look dumber when they get caught.

This might be true when applied to school work. I never cheated in school, valued books to much.

We are talking about a game though.

A mind numbingly boring grind at that. So people found a way to take that crappy part out of the game and you all are upset about it.

Listen, I'm not the one whining about it here. I could still be botting even with glider gone. Doesn't really matter to me.

What I can't figure out though is why it matters to any of you.

Tell me how a botter destroys YOUR specific gameplay.

I can't think of 1 single aspect of the game a botter hurts me in. I know there are prolly a hundred botters on my server, still can't think of how they are affecting me at all.

Originally posted by neonaka

No in real life, cheaters always win. Everyone stands by you.

Bill gates was a cheater and is now a Gagillionare.

The strong step on the weak to get ahead. People step on others to get what they want. Ever wonder how most people get all these fancy cars and huge houses? You think they get them by working hard and playing by all the rules? No they get them by crushing opposition, being the best at what they do by any means they can.

Same applies to the gaming world. Some rules can be bent, others can be broken. It will continue this way forever.

Freedom allows for this. The only way to stop this would be to stop every ounce of freedom in everything.

To not bend or break a rule it must not have the room to do so. If you every completely lock something down to the point it has no freedom to be shaped, what do you have?

You have nothing.

You are right about the details, but you have no concept of the big picture (and it's nothing to do with religion).

I feel sorry for you.

Originally posted by BlackWatch

Originally posted by Pappy13

Originally posted by BlackWatch

Not saying I support bott'ing (because I don't), but how much further out can we be from Blizzard vs some of the mod's that automate some ingame activities (such as mod's that watch the AH for pricing trends and such)?  And then will they go after multi-boxers as well? 

You mean other than the fact that Blizzard has already stated countless times that these are completely within the TOS and EULA and acceptable?  Yes Multi-boxing is acceptable as long as it's not automated.

 

At the end of the day, it's Blizzards software and their game.  So, if they have stated it's okay... then I'm fine with that.  I'd just like to see it in writing with a little more detail (from them) on what methods of multi-boxing they accept. 

Really, I'd like that in writing to protect me... because I multi-box in WoW and have in other games as well.

You're perfectly legal as long as you don't automate (like using glider).  Even using an input split program is okay because in effect you are controlling multiple toons at once, there's no automation involved.  I don't multi-box, but I saw it being done and did some research on if it was within the rules.  It is.
 

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5288579356&sid=1&pageNo=1#2

Originally posted by neonaka

Originally posted by templarga

We chose to use our brain and take a shortcut to get what we wanted. They chose to make their ass numb. Don't get mad at us for being smarter than you.

You sound just like the students I teach when they get caight cheating. Cheating is the easy way out and it does not make you smarter.
 

So how are you so smart? Because you can find the illegal program and install it and use it to level? That does not make you smarter.

Cheat all you want but in the end, I know I leveled my characters legally and fairly. I like playing the game and not just aspects of the game.
 

but please "shortcuts" make nobody smarter....just makes them look dumber when they get caught.

 

This might be true when applied to school work. I never cheated in school, valued books to much.

We are talking about a game though.

A mind numbingly boring grind at that. So people found a way to take that crappy part out of the game and you all are upset about it.

Listen, I'm not the one whining about it here. I could still be botting even with glider gone. Doesn't really matter to me.

What I can't figure out though is why it matters to any of you.

Tell me how a botter destroys YOUR specific gameplay.

I can't think of 1 single aspect of the game a botter hurts me in. I know there are prolly a hundred botters on my server, still can't think of how they are affecting me at all.

How about if you find it "mind-numbing" you do 1 of two things?

First stop playing. That's part of the game, if you do not like it, move on.

Second, instead of cheating, how about you suggest to Blizzard ways to improve the game. They listen even if you do not believe it. The patch just yesterday moved mounts to level 30! That is something the community has been asking for now for a long time.

The point is that cheaters rather take the easy way out and break the rules than use the system and see change on a larger scale.

And the issue isn't how botting hurts you or me. The issue is the rules. You agree to Blizzard's rules and if you break their rules, you get punished.

Its the same in my class. If someone cheats, they get punished. If they do not like my class, then they can find another class. But I will not change my class for cheaters. And Blizzard doesn't cater to cheaters - they cater to those of us who play the game how its supposed to be played and do so legally.

Originally posted by neonaka

Originally posted by templarga

We chose to use our brain and take a shortcut to get what we wanted. They chose to make their ass numb. Don't get mad at us for being smarter than you.

You sound just like the students I teach when they get caight cheating. Cheating is the easy way out and it does not make you smarter.
 

So how are you so smart? Because you can find the illegal program and install it and use it to level? That does not make you smarter.

Cheat all you want but in the end, I know I leveled my characters legally and fairly. I like playing the game and not just aspects of the game.
 

but please "shortcuts" make nobody smarter....just makes them look dumber when they get caught.

 

This might be true when applied to school work. I never cheated in school, valued books to much.

We are talking about a game though.

A mind numbingly boring grind at that. So people found a way to take that crappy part out of the game and you all are upset about it.

Listen, I'm not the one whining about it here. I could still be botting even with glider gone. Doesn't really matter to me.

What I can't figure out though is why it matters to any of you.

Tell me how a botter destroys YOUR specific gameplay.

I can't think of 1 single aspect of the game a botter hurts me in. I know there are prolly a hundred botters on my server, still can't think of how they are affecting me at all.

You see the effects every time you go to the AH.
 

Originally posted by Waterlily

Cheating in life isn't freedom Neonaka. You hide and try to gain something you were not entitled to.

Cheaters get caught, and people will not stand by your side when you do.

free·dom play_w2("F0307300")

9. A right or the power to engage in certain actions without control or interference:

cheat play_w2("C0263400")

You can do any of these defined as "cheating" at any time you choose. That is the definition of freedom.

Cheating is freedom. You are free to cheat.

Does it make cheating right? I wouldn't go that far. Cheating is still a freedom however.

False dichotomy.  It is not an all-or-nothing situation.

You can remove the ability to cheat without removing the freedom of choice that makes the game entertaining -- at least, entertaining for those who agree to play by the rules.

How about if you find it "mind-numbing" you do 1 of two things?

First stop playing. That's part of the game, if you do not like it, move on.

Second, instead of cheating, how about you suggest to Blizzard ways to improve the game. They listen even if you do not believe it. The patch just yesterday moved mounts to level 30! That is something the community has been asking for now for a long time.

The point is that cheaters rather take the easy way out and break the rules than use the system and see change on a larger scale.

And the issue isn't how botting hurts you or me. The issue is the rules. You agree to Blizzard's rules and if you break their rules, you get punished.

Its the same in my class. If someone cheats, they get punished. If they do not like my class, then they can find another class. But I will not change my class for cheaters. And Blizzard doesn't cater to cheaters - they cater to those of us who play the game how its supposed to be played and do so legally.

Well first, you assume I agree to something, just because blizzard makes you click "OK AGREE" doesn't mean I agree with it. It is just what you have to do to enter game. Most people don't read that long wall of shit they just scroll down to the bottom and click ok.

Now that we have determined that click "OK" and actually "AGREEING" with something are two different things, just because Blizzard say "Don't do this it's naughty" isn't going to stop people from doing it.

Originally posted by Hexxeity

False dichotomy.  It is not an all-or-nothing situation.

You can remove the ability to cheat without removing the freedom of choice that makes the game entertaining -- at least, entertaining for those who agree to play by the rules.

Ok Hexxeity, I knew I always liked you for a reason.

You hit it on the head kinda.

People assume however that EVERYONE is going to play by the rules.

Which they are not. It's naive to think that everyone is going to do what you do. (not you personally hex just in general)

In a digital world however you can never remove the ability to cheat. The system is built off of code, the code can always be manipulated. The world is virtual not real. Virtual things can be shaped to the will of the user.

If Blizzard could stop the hackers from changing the code, don't you think they would do that instead of dragging people through year long court proceedings.

Simple fact is you can't stop and will never stop it.

As long as the system is built on rules and the rules are built on code. The system can be manipulated.

Originally posted by neonaka

How about if you find it "mind-numbing" you do 1 of two things?

First stop playing. That's part of the game, if you do not like it, move on.

Second, instead of cheating, how about you suggest to Blizzard ways to improve the game. They listen even if you do not believe it. The patch just yesterday moved mounts to level 30! That is something the community has been asking for now for a long time.

The point is that cheaters rather take the easy way out and break the rules than use the system and see change on a larger scale.

And the issue isn't how botting hurts you or me. The issue is the rules. You agree to Blizzard's rules and if you break their rules, you get punished.

Its the same in my class. If someone cheats, they get punished. If they do not like my class, then they can find another class. But I will not change my class for cheaters. And Blizzard doesn't cater to cheaters - they cater to those of us who play the game how its supposed to be played and do so legally.

 

Well first, you assume I agree to something, just because blizzard makes you click "OK AGREE" doesn't mean I agree with it. It is just what you have to do to enter game. Most people don't read that long wall of shit they just scroll down to the bottom and click ok.

Now that we have determined that click "OK" and actually "AGREEING" with something are two different things, just because Blizzard say "Don't do this it's naughty" isn't going to stop people from doing it.

Lets see if I can dumb this down enough for you neonaka...
 

One rule to enter my house is that you are not allowed to throw pizza on the wall.  If I tell you this and you agree by saying yes (even if you weren't listening and just went through the motion of saying the word yes) I would take that mean that you understood and agreed to my rules.  If you go and throw pizza on my wall I'm going to through you out of my house.   Did I impeed your freedom, damm right, because is my free choice not to have to clean your pizza off my wall.  Your right to freedom does not give you the right to take away my freedom.

Originally posted by winter

 

 But your not just playing on your computer. Your playing on Blizzards servers with many other people, and when you decide to bot, or hack its not just your game, its other peoples games that you ruin, this effects Blizzard. You have any idea how much Blizzard has to pay people to watchout and try and catch Hackers and botters like you? Trust me it goes into the price all the rest of us have to pay monthly. So take your "I love my bot its my god given right to hack" whine somewhere else.

  When you play single player on your own comp you can bot and hack and cheat all you like, But when you play in a game with other people on servers you don't own keep that crap off. Seriously the only people that could possibly be whining about this are the gold farmers and those that need a 3rd party program to get ahead in the game.

First I played wow for over a year and I never botted, so take your assumptions somewhere else....

Second they can monitor everything on there side of things, theres no need to monitor what my pc is doing. Heres an easy way to catch a botter look at people who play 8 hours a day and see what they are doing.

Finally this case effects all pc software not just blizzard, I couldn't care less about WoW .

---

Originally posted by neonaka
Well even still this does nothing.
Hackers are like the viruses they create. They are like a cell.
You stop one and five more will pop up in it's place.
If you think no one is going to create a new improved and better glider based off this guys work, you would be wrong.
If Blizzard thinks they can ever stop the hackers of the world. They are mistaken as well.
Glider is just 1 of 2 very good bot programs for wow.
The 2nd of the set is so bad ass that warden can't even see it. It works, and is used by thousands of players daily.

It doesn't matter in games or other aspects of the digital world. Hackers exist to fight the system. They do so very well. They will be around for as long as we type on keyboards.
This stops nothing.

---

Dude, stop watching the movie "Hackers" it was a fun movie but in NO way is it considered "cool" to do what these people do. He broke the law, plain and simple. This whole BS about "There are many of us" only shows how incredibly childish and annoying hackers and botters are.

Get over yourselves and get over your whole "Hacker Manifesto" it doesn't make you look cool, it makes you look like jerks. You may not like it, but Blizzard as a company comprised of PEOPLE (yes, people like you and me) don't like having their property (just like you don't like anyone hacking into your computer) F#$%#ed around with. As others have stated already, if you don't like it, un-install the game and don't play. Nobody is robbing nobody's rights and I'll be glad to see all these botters completely GONE! We don't need and we don't want your kind in our games anyway, your kind is usually just a pain on our sides and we'd be glad to get rid of it.

Originally posted by Horusra

Wait wait..did he just make fun of people that play the game to advance when he went out downloaded a program so that his computer could play the game for him while he was away so that he could be just as cool as the people he mocked? 

 Why yes, yes he did. You get a cookie!

  While I think that neonaka probably needs a great deal more in terms of actual life experience and morality...I do feel the need to remind all of you of this:

  When defending the freedoms of a good man, you must also defend those of the crook.  In either case, should one's freedom fail...both will.

  The stickler here is two-fold, however.  Glider was a program you had to buy.  See...the thing here is...they are making money off of a product they do not actually hold any rights to.  On top of that, the software in question creates a situation that makes the product less enjoyable for those whom do not use it.  I think its sweet, neo, that you don't use the bot to farm gold...I really do.  The trouble is, it takes only ONE person to use it that way for it to impact every player on the server.  Now, I think you'd be willing to agree that there are a great deal more than one single player on each server using it to farm mats and gold for them.

  At the end of the day....you can never allow one mans freedom to take away from another mans freedom.  Your freedom to use that bot presents other players with an issue.  They can no longer simply play as casually as they were and progress financially as they did when they began.  They have lost their freedom to play their game as they were unless they pay this man for his bot.  I think its very sad that you support this...because this country is having some tough economic problems right now, and forcing people to pay even MORE money just to play the game they way they were before you came along is pretty terrible.

  You also take this court matter too far, neo.  The judge did not create a situation where you cannot HAVE the bot.  Indeed, you can still have the bot.  You cannot, however, run it while playing WoW.  You are allowed to have whatever you want on your PC.  You are not allowed to USE whatever you want when it pertains to the case of another persons property, of effects another persons freedom.  Similarly, you can own a gun all you want.  You cannot, however, use it to rob me and, thus, "save time" from having to go to work for 8 hours that day.

  In either case, you must understand that you are using something that takes something away from someone else.  Worse, you are financially supporting someone who both:

A:  Doesn't actually care two bits about you or your well being

B:  Deliberately operates in teh shadows amidst a sea of secrets and lies.

  I'm not sure why you feel so good doing that....nor do I understand why you feel you should defend him.  What he does is wrong....and he makes a fat stack of profit over creating a situation that damages the game for other players.  If you don't understand how botting hurts the players...I direct you to Silk Road.  Go ahead...play that game for a day.  Go see what happens when a game is allowed to have its botters run free and wild.  Level 12 items begin to cost well over 500 times what any legit level 12 person could have.  Good xp spots begin to be overcamps by the botters....denying the honest player a shot at it, forcing him to pick at the scraps left and level far slower.  Hell...that game even had PK, so the botters (whom were far better geared) would also be KILLING you.

  Game companies HAVE to stand hard, and stand fast against it.  If they let up...it gets out of control.

---

Originally posted by neonaka

---

Originally posted by Waterlily

---

Originally posted by neonaka

People are pissed though because while your son was out playing baseball and I was out enjoying a nice steak dinner with my wife. The bot got me 5 levels that day. These other people had to get a sore ass, pimples from lack of sunshine and mind numbing frustration to get the same 5 levels.
We chose to use our brain and take a shortcut to get what we wanted. They chose to make their ass numb. Don't get mad at us for being smarter than you.

---

No, you chose to cheat instead of playing the game like you were supposed to.
Now you are lying to yourself and claiming you are somehow independent from WoW and have a life because you used a bot program.
You are not smarter than anyone else, you just prefer to cheat in life to get ahead. In the end cheaters get caught and no one will stand by your side.

---

No in real life, cheaters always win. Everyone stands by you.
Bill gates was a cheater and is now a Gagillionare.
The strong step on the weak to get ahead. People step on others to get what they want. Ever wonder how most people get all these fancy cars and huge houses? You think they get them by working hard and playing by all the rules? No they get them by crushing opposition, being the best at what they do by any means they can.
Same applies to the gaming world. Some rules can be bent, others can be broken. It will continue this way forever.
Freedom allows for this. The only way to stop this would be to stop every ounce of freedom in everything.
To not bend or break a rule it must not have the room to do so. If you every completely lock something down to the point it has no freedom to be shaped, what do you have?
You have nothing.

---

Yes, because we ALL know how well that worked for ENRON! LOL! please stop deluding yourself, you're just making yourself look dumber than an A#$%#$

"...good ol us of A (gag)..."

"Police state here we come !!! WOOHOO!"

Please keep your politics out of my peanut butter Mr. Orwell.

---

Originally posted by neonaka

---

How about if you find it "mind-numbing" you do 1 of two things?
First stop playing. That's part of the game, if you do not like it, move on.

Second, instead of cheating, how about you suggest to Blizzard ways to improve the game. They listen even if you do not believe it. The patch just yesterday moved mounts to level 30! That is something the community has been asking for now for a long time.

The point is that cheaters rather take the easy way out and break the rules than use the system and see change on a larger scale.

And the issue isn't how botting hurts you or me. The issue is the rules. You agree to Blizzard's rules and if you break their rules, you get punished.

Its the same in my class. If someone cheats, they get punished. If they do not like my class, then they can find another class. But I will not change my class for cheaters. And Blizzard doesn't cater to cheaters - they cater to those of us who play the game how its supposed to be played and do so legally.

---

Well first, you assume I agree to something, just because blizzard makes you click "OK AGREE" doesn't mean I agree with it. It is just what you have to do to enter game. Most people don't read that long wall of shit they just scroll down to the bottom and click ok.
Now that we have determined that click "OK" and actually "AGREEING" with something are two different things, just because Blizzard say "Don't do this it's naughty" isn't going to stop people from doing it.

---

Then DON'T PLAY!!!! My god how is this concept too hard to grasp? Jeebus H. Christ! First you're saying it infringes on your rights, then you say "Ok, I clicked I agree but that doesn't mean I agree" I swear you flip flop more than Kerry and Obama put together! Sorry pal, but YOU are the one at fault for not bothering to read the EULA and TOS before clicking on that button and before creating your toon/account. If you don't like to play by the rules, then don't play!

To use another simpler example, do you think that, it would be ok if you started playing Monopoly with your friends, but you started off with getting all the hotels beforehand without doing any actual game play? NO! Of course not! You might think that's a good idea, but all your friends are going to be pissed at you and for good reason! You're not bothering to play the game by the rules and more than likely, they're not going to play with you again.

Jeeeeesus! How more dense can you possibly be?!

Cheers Blizzard, thanks for doing what SOE should have pursued 10 years ago against the same type of scum who created ShowEQ and other sniffers, but Smedley was too much of a two faced pussy to initiate action against.

I hope Blizzard takes everything this assclown owns.

Originally posted by neonaka

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by neonaka

 

They crushed him with money, and now will bankrupt this man until he has lost everything. This doesn't encourage others to free think and create anything. This oppresses the people. Why would anyone bother to create anything anymore when as soon as they do a billion dollar corp comes in a crushes them in court until they lose their house, car, and dog for using their brain. Like it or not. The programmer of Glider is a very intelligent man, and made a program that has MANY more uses than just botting. That doesn't matter now because that just got stripped from him.

 

I hope heavy claims follow that actually do bankrupt him.

He does not only violate EULA, he knowingly violated copyright laws.

He makes a profit out of violating laws.

He disrupts a huge virtual environment and influences every player in the game by knowingly providing tools to disrupt the server.

He profits from other people's work.

He continued to distribute the program even after Blizzard had filed a lawsuit against him, for which he is charged too now.

 

I hope he goes bankrupt and Blizzard demands as much as they can.

 

It's like this.

The digital world is like the real world.

Companies like Blizzard are no different than the Government of the world. Setup to oppress it's people, when in reality they were suppose to protect them.

Then you have hackers that act like any of the organizations in the real world who fight against the government, fight against oppression and fight for freedom.

 

The government may be more powerful than these freedom fighters, just as companies like Blizzard are more powerful than the hackers.

However you will never stomp them out, they will ALWAYS fight the power. They won't stop until the freedom is realized.

That's just truth.

ROFLMAO!!

Sorry dude, but the whole hackers are freedom fighters bit went out in the eighties.

Come back to reality.

Well, this is bad news all around. Take away more rights from the public, give more rights to companies, all in the name of protecting us from those [insert bad people here]. There are numerous problems with EULA as has already been mentioned, such as not being able to agree to it before buying the software (and no, you can't take it back, at least no store I know of will take back software that's been opened.). Also, the legal terminology in most EULA's is so thick that many people might not understand what they are agreeing to. EULA's are not like contracts, which are negotiated between two parties. They are non-negotiable things which producers slap on their product, and consumers agree or cannot play.

This ruling is going to do nothing to stop botters. I don't know why so many of you are clueless to this fact. People who use the software already (which is hidden to blizzard) will continue to use it. Clones of the software will spring up and be more covert so as not to get caught. Or maybe they will get caught. Then more clones will come out. It's like the hydra - it starts with one head, if you cut it off, two more will grow. One head is better - one head can be tracked. But no one in this government understand that. They have done it time and again every time.

They are punishing the do-gooders (consumers) for the crimes of the do-bads. (The criminals may be the ones fined, but software users are the ones who will be punished). We aren't allowed to use our RAM the way we want now? WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO. I can't wait for processbots which scan your computer and sends reports of running programs to various corporations or agencies to be mandatory. Heck, we already have things like gameguard/punkbuster that do just that. All to protect us from cheaters. And it DOESN'T EVEN WORK!