General Discussion

MMO players have spoken.  They want a MMO which is big budget, completely innovative, perfect, on time and under budget, or nothing at all.

So give them what they want, nothing at all.

Leave the MMO making to the big soulless companies that can afford to make a 200 mil game (these 60 mil games don't even come close to what players want).  And because they don't want to risk their 200 mil they will play it safe, and not take risks. 

Which players will also hate, leaving the game companies with no choice but to go where the real money is, console games with 15-30 people multilayer.  Or 2 player co-op.

Because of the difficulties in making a MMO pc game, almost all MMO dev teams come to a choice:
A.  Release the game unfinished.
B.  Don't release at all.

There is no C.  No one is going to lend them the money they need because the risk is too high.  It just isn't gong to happened. 

If you had money to invest in a game, would you give it to Take Two, or some MMO dev team that isn't blizzard?

Have fun with your free Korean games, and whatever Blizzard makes because those are the only choices you are going to have in the future.

Because you have spoken, and you and not going to take it any more, well good for you.

And in closing, I'm not saying you should all like AoC, I'm just saying if you have two choices, unfinished or not at all, and those are really your only choices for any non blizzard new mmo, like really, do you want not at all?
 

From a consumer standpoint, thats a pretty poor argument.

Basically you are saying "just deal with low quality or else other companies aside from Bliz might not make these game anymore"

Not exactly the sort of thinking that makes an industry successful....

C.  Buy games from a developer that  actually cares about their players.  *waits eagerly for Guild wars2* while the other game companies shudder at the thought.

PS.. The future of mmos will be  meta place type mmorpgs, where customers will be able to get exactly what they want.

Lucky i still have Turbine....

Originally posted by GreenChaos

Because of the difficulties in making a MMO pc game, almost all MMO dev teams come to a choice:
A.  Release the game unfinished.
B.  Don't release at all.

There is no C.  No one is going to lend them the money they need because the risk is too high.  It just isn't gong to happened. 

They could always go more modest with the initial design, and then build on it after they launch a complete core game.  Too many developers want to promise rainbows, gumdrops, and the kitchen sink, but have to launch with the rainbow consisting of a monochrome half-arc, stale gumdrops, and the gunk that clogs the sink.

Get the core game working, and add the fluff later.  If you get the core up and running prior to launch and can fit in some of the fluff at launch, then you have done a good job.  Just make sure you focus on adding the rest of the fluff before deciding to change the entire concept of your game (I'm looking at you SWG, and unfortunately AoC is heading in that direction).

 I've rewritten the OPs post a bit and tried to fix the errors. Then added more of my own thoughts at the end.

(((((((((((((((      MMO players have spoken.  They want a MMO which is innovative, complete, and on time or nothing at all.

So give them what they want, something innovative and with all the content promised.

Leave the MMO making to the dev teams and companies that actually care a little about what they are making.  And because they want 200 mil they will play it safe, and not short come their customers.

Which players will love, leaving the game companies with no choice but to go where the real money is, fulfilling their promises and firing the imagination of millions of pc mmo freaks.

Because of the difficulties in making a MMO pc game, almost all MMO dev teams come to a choice:
A.  Release the game unfinished. Which means fail.
B.  Don't release at all. Which means they had a poor business plan.

There is a C.  Get their sh*t together raise the bar and actually do as they say.

If you had money to invest in a game, would you give it to Take Two, or some MMO dev team that isn't blizzard? I mean if they had this awesome plan and a great business model that seemed sound and solid?

Have fun with your free Korean games, and whatever [insert any of many company name] makes because those are the only a few of many choices you are going to have in the future.

Because you have spoken, and you are not going to take it any more, well good for you.

And in closing, I'm saying you should all dislike AoC!!!1! I'm just saying if you have two choices, unfinished or finished, and those are really your only choices for any non blizzard new mmo, like really, do you want unfinished? ))))))))))))))))))))))

 Logic is no where to be seen in your post Mr GreenChaos. There may be reason for a product to be released unfinished, but never an excuse. Unfinished is simply unfinished. And to get angry at the customer or to blame them for their unhappiness with the product is just... retarded? Now someone may say that all mmo's are released unfinished and maybe that is true, it certainly seems that way. But it doesn't have to be. It's setting the bar low and its sad that people are okay with that. An unfinished mmo should not be confused with the saying, "An mmo is never finished..." because the meaning in the quote is that content can always be added. While an unfinished mmo is lacking stated content on release.

Giant 200mil or 60mil dollar budget games! I could care less how much it cost to make. Although I find it kind of sickening that these new games are costing so much to produce when the only innovative aspects they really have is better graphics. I'd rather have not so good graphics if it meant more depth to game play or character options/things to do. There is plenty of room for the small guys here. They just have to make a solid game and so what if the graphics aren't next gen. Lot of people with old computers having problems running these new hogs. Maybe the selling point of these new games should not be the super duper graphics, but rather the game play. Might cost a little less that way.

Overall your argument seems to be that no more mmo's are going to be crapped out if people stop buying the games they don't want to play. Or innovative games will not be made if people stop buying unfinished games? Well, raise the bar, stop buying the unfinished crap. Dev teams will learn to execute their plans along with not over hyping. Success! Because there is so much money to be made. "Much" doesn't have to be 1k times investment. But if the goal is to make tons of money, then a finished (polished) release wouldn't hurt.
 

hehe, i love the A and B by the OP and pigfist. very true. that's why it takes so long to make a good mmo, look how long ago we've seen videos of Warhammer AoR and its not even out yet.

in my honest opinion, I think alot of P2P mmorpgs should be F2P because of their utter crapiness.  *cough*the lower portion of the game list by rankings*cough*

Originally posted by Torak

From a consumer standpoint, thats a pretty poor argument.

Basically you are saying "just deal with low quality or else other companies aside from Bliz might not make these game anymore"

Not exactly the sort of thinking that makes an industry successful....

 

 

 

I'm not trying to make excuses for them, I'm just saying I think devs are going to stop making MMOs.  Other than blizzard and EA, and they will play it safe.

Is this not the quinasential issue with mmo though? Basically when deciding on a game to play the consumer is going to want the game to give them the minimum of the experience they are having with their current game.

The problem is their current game has eveolved into its current state. People no longer want to give new titles the opportunity to 'develop'.

But has this not always been like this? Well in truth probably not, mmo's are quite new and we are seeing a stagnation after a boom. New technology and reduction in its price should allow new devs to enter the market at least on some level in time.

New concepts like Spore etc, will enter the scene but will also mostly be seen as niche, but all games will be niche on release. This is why we have so many people going back to games some time after they tried them at release, now saying how much they've improved and how much better they are and that they will be sticking with them.

I don't understand what point the OP is trying to make.

First off, there is a C option; continue to work on the game until it is ready for release, and only release it then.  &n