Star Wars Galaxies

Maybe if SOE didn't piss off its original playerbase so much there wouldn't be so many angry vets out there giving the game a bad name?

Also, you go out to any MMO out there and talk about the best / worst MMOs you'll get a variety of answers, but SWG will have 1 consistent answer:  It sucks now.

The reputation of SOE and SWG stinks.  It has stank since 2005.  Coming over here and trying to smother us with your love of SWG isn't going to change squat.  And we're only 1 place that vets rant about what has happened to SWG.  Better yet, go to any other forum and go ahead and talk about the best / worst MMOs.  Again, you'll see SWG not fare so well.

If SWG had a great reputation, or is such a great game, you'd have replaced all of us SWG vets by now.  It's been 3 years and SOE still hasn't.

'Nuff said.

I will never ever buy another SOE game in my whole life after what they did to SWG and to not make Vanguard SoH a great game wich many thought would be the next "SWG". Im not going to give a game from SOE one slightest little chance, ever! And no!, we shouldnt give SWG a second chance, the hell with it.

SWG was something, now its not. If other game companies is going to take anything out of SWG and put it in their game it should be the one and only "Skill Tree" system, atleast to start with.

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Originally posted by admriker4

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by Ginaz

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Originally posted by Fishermage
 
Notice very carefully the wording I am responding to:
"anyone who plays SOE says it's okay to steal and lie."
That is an absolute statement of morality. It is a personal attack that amounts to: anyone who pays for something evil is saying it is okay. That's bunk.
It is a ridiculous absolute statement in the form of a personal attack. THAT is what I am responding to. It is a completely flawed argument on many levels.

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I agree its a bit of a stretch to say current swg players think its ok to lie and steal.  Still, I have less respect for people that know what soe pulled and still continue to play.  For me, its like if you were to get ripped off or treated poorly by ,say, an automotive repair shop and all your friends and people that continue to go there know what happened but continue to give them their business anyway.  If I had a RL friend that did that, I can guarantee you they wouldn't be my friend for much longer.  But its their choice, they made their bed and now they have to lie in it.
I will never buy an soe or sony product ever again because of what happened.  Thats my choice.  Seriously, why is it so difficult for people to cancel a video and use the money on some other form of entertainment?  Why is it these people don't seem to care soe to lied to their customers and engaged in shady business practices when I'm pretty sure they wouldn't put up with the same treatment from any other business?
 

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I have many reasons. One, I want to see how it all plays out, which I can't do from the sidelines. Two, I have friends that I still play with, and yes, I get some enjoyment from the times I have with them, when I do play. Three, it's no inconvenience to me at all, considering how cheap this all is -- the farce is more than worth the price of admission. Four, the game HAS in some ways improved, and I know that in a small way I and others like me have been a part of that.
Plus, I provide a fine counterbalance to those who would lie to defend the game. The fact that I get flamed equally by both sides always ensures me that I am taking the right course here.
I have many more reasons as well, and for me, they more than outweigh some dubious moral high ground.
the fact is the boycott hasn't produced a classic server; but brand loyalty og the people who stil play might just have proved to LA that a SW MMO is something still worth persuing after all this.
Had everyone just quit, and the game shut down, it is far more likely that we would never see another SW MMO. the fact that so many stayed convinced LA that there was enoigh brand loyalty to persue another game. If such a thing does occur, we will have all had a hand in it.
Either way we need to get beyond attacking one another and attack the real culprits. This crap just helps SOE, not us.
We can all play with all the analogies we want -- the fact is we are better served if we not attack each other.
 
 

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 sorry fish but I will lay blame on you and your NGE friends. You are a danger to the MMO industry. Your wallet says its okay to violate the cardinal rule of MMO's and change the core game mechanics.  Your money says its okay to use subscriber money in any way they please.
 
You and your friends are frankly hurting the entire genre. And your also preventing any possible classic server launch. Why bother doing that if there are still 30k left to cover the bills ?
And I dont buy the story that new players to SWG are blameless because there is no way in hel they dont know about the now infamous background of this horrendous game.
If the remaining players all up and quit, SOE would either give us back our game (classic servers) or shut down (followed by spilling the beans on the next Star Wars MMO).
My anger lies with the current players as it should. Justify playing anyway you like...gameplay is good, my friends are all still there, etc  it doesnt really matter. This is about ethics, its about right and wrong.
And your comparison to political issues is waaaaaaaay off. I dont have a choice if troops are deployed or tax breaks are given to sleazy corporations. I do however have a choice on where I spend my money. Granted those choices are getting tougher and tougher because everyone owns each other. I dont buy from companies that benefited from the Holocaust. I dont buy from corporations that use slave labor like Walmart (again hard to avoid). And I dont buy from corporations that lie and steal from me.
Consumers can easily avoid SWG and SOE. They dont own everything yet. I can spend my money elsewhere and you should too.
I wont rest until SWG is shut down.

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That's okay, I am more gracious than you and can agree to disagree. A pity, YOU can't. Which is another problem with YOUR point of view.

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Originally posted by Malickiebloo

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Originally posted by admriker4

 
 

 sorry fish but I will lay blame on you and your NGE friends. You are a danger to the MMO industry. Your wallet says its okay to violate the cardinal rule of MMO's and change the core game mechanics.  Your money says its okay to use subscriber money in any way they please.
 
You and your friends are frankly hurting the entire genre. And your also preventing any possible classic server launch. Why bother doing that if there are still 30k left to cover the bills ?
And I dont buy the story that new players to SWG are blameless because there is no way in hel they dont know about the now infamous background of this horrendous game.
If the remaining players all up and quit, SOE would either give us back our game (classic servers) or shut down (followed by spilling the beans on the next Star Wars MMO).
My anger lies with the current players as it should. Justify playing anyway you like...gameplay is good, my friends are all still there, etc  it doesnt really matter. This is about ethics, its about right and wrong.
And your comparison to political issues is waaaaaaaay off. I dont have a choice if troops are deployed or tax breaks are given to sleazy corporations. I do however have a choice on where I spend my money. Granted those choices are getting tougher and tougher because everyone owns each other. I dont buy from companies that benefited from the Holocaust. I dont buy from corporations that use slave labor like Walmart (again hard to avoid). And I dont buy from corporations that lie and steal from me.
Consumers can easily avoid SWG and SOE. They dont own everything yet. I can spend my money elsewhere and you should too.
I wont rest until SWG is shut down.

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I think his comparison was more in line with  the concepts of capitalism not necassarily politics. The morality in paying to play a videogame that was changed , Is no different than the morality involved in watching a blockbuster hollywood movie that sucks. or paying to have cable tv in your home . Most entertainment avenues are in some way capable of and mostly guilty of bait and switch or other tactics deemed ethically challenged.
Besides if you want a boycott , You aren't going to get any headway by attacking someones morals or lack thereof . Without those people you want to scrutinize , You're not going to accomplish much .

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yes, and that is how he fails. It's all good though. Together we have done much, even if he doesn't understand how.

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Originally posted by darkwonderer
You can not reason with passion. This is fundamentally flawed logic. For they are fundamentally different.
Although you did an admirable job in trying.

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Since you didn't quote, it's impossible to know what you are referring to. But if you meant me...

One can easily reason with passion. Passion is NON-rational, not IR-rational. The emotions one feels while one is reasoning is irrelevant to the reasoning itself. Some folks can't deal with it, others can. Einstein passionately LOVED physics, and if you read his reasoning, you will find they are full of passion.

I LOVE reasoning, and do so passionately. Instead of making false platitudes, how about DEFENDING your case instead of making a bald-faced assertion.

At any rate, I am not reasoning with passion, I am reasoning with reason. How are they fundamentally different?, in the careful context I have drawn? If it is evil to pay for evil; everyone is evil because everyone, to a greater or lesser extent, pays for evil.

Originally posted by admriker4

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by Ginaz

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

Notice very carefully the wording I am responding to:
"anyone who plays SOE says it's okay to steal and lie."
That is an absolute statement of morality. It is a personal attack that amounts to: anyone who pays for something evil is saying it is okay. That's bunk.
It is a ridiculous absolute statement in the form of a personal attack. THAT is what I am responding to. It is a completely flawed argument on many levels.

---

 
I agree its a bit of a stretch to say current swg players think its ok to lie and steal.  Still, I have less respect for people that know what soe pulled and still continue to play.  For me, its like if you were to get ripped off or treated poorly by ,say, an automotive repair shop and all your friends and people that continue to go there know what happened but continue to give them their business anyway.  If I had a RL friend that did that, I can guarantee you they wouldn't be my friend for much longer.  But its their choice, they made their bed and now they have to lie in it.
I will never buy an soe or sony product ever again because of what happened.  Thats my choice.  Seriously, why is it so difficult for people to cancel a video and use the money on some other form of entertainment?  Why is it these people don't seem to care soe to lied to their customers and engaged in shady business practices when I'm pretty sure they wouldn't put up with the same treatment from any other business?
 

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I have many reasons. One, I want to see how it all plays out, which I can't do from the sidelines. Two, I have friends that I still play with, and yes, I get some enjoyment from the times I have with them, when I do play. Three, it's no inconvenience to me at all, considering how cheap this all is -- the farce is more than worth the price of admission. Four, the game HAS in some ways improved, and I know that in a small way I and others like me have been a part of that.

Plus, I provide a fine counterbalance to those who would lie to defend the game. The fact that I get flamed equally by both sides always ensures me that I am taking the right course here.

I have many more reasons as well, and for me, they more than outweigh some dubious moral high ground.

the fact is the boycott hasn't produced a classic server; but brand loyalty og the people who stil play might just have proved to LA that a SW MMO is something still worth persuing after all this.

Had everyone just quit, and the game shut down, it is far more likely that we would never see another SW MMO. the fact that so many stayed convinced LA that there was enoigh brand loyalty to persue another game. If such a thing does occur, we will have all had a hand in it.

Either way we need to get beyond attacking one another and attack the real culprits. This crap just helps SOE, not us.

We can all play with all the analogies we want -- the fact is we are better served if we not attack each other.

 

 

 sorry fish but I will lay blame on you and your NGE friends. You are a danger to the MMO industry. Your wallet says its okay to violate the cardinal rule of MMO's and change the core game mechanics.  Your money says its okay to use subscriber money in any way they please.
 

You and your friends are frankly hurting the entire genre. And your also preventing any possible classic server launch. Why bother doing that if there are still 30k left to cover the bills ?

And I dont buy the story that new players to SWG are blameless because there is no way in hel they dont know about the now infamous background of this horrendous game.

If the remaining players all up and quit, SOE would either give us back our game (classic servers) or shut down (followed by spilling the beans on the next Star Wars MMO).

My anger lies with the current players as it should. Justify playing anyway you like...gameplay is good, my friends are all still there, etc  it doesnt really matter. This is about ethics, its about right and wrong.

And your comparison to political issues is waaaaaaaay off. I dont have a choice if troops are deployed or tax breaks are given to sleazy corporations. I do however have a choice on where I spend my money. Granted those choices are getting tougher and tougher because everyone owns each other. I dont buy from companies that benefited from the Holocaust. I dont buy from corporations that use slave labor like Walmart (again hard to avoid). And I dont buy from corporations that lie and steal from me.

Consumers can easily avoid SWG and SOE. They dont own everything yet. I can spend my money elsewhere and you should too.

I wont rest until SWG is shut down.

Sorry Fish, You already know that you and I often agree, but on this 1, I'll have to disagree.

While I will not say that "I won't rest until SWG is shut down", I will say that I will not fund their continued CHANGES.  SOE, by remaining with SWG, has given their attitudes over to the entire gaming industry.  Funcom just pulled a SOE style nerf, not even 2 months after launch with a list of bugs to fix as long as your arm.  Definate SOE flashbacks.  I canceled that account too.

By continued subscriptions, sorry my friend, but you further enable them to keep going in the way they have come accustomed too.  By even a skeleton playerbase, it tells the entire gaming industry just exactly what a gaming company can "get away with" and still remain solvent. (maybe a loss in profits, but the bills still being paid)   And haveing SWG limp and drag along does not create a sence of urgency, with LA, to create another Star Wars MMORPG when 1 is out there allready.

For a long, long time i thought exactly as you do.  If I was there, I could do something about it.  But, that was and is NOT the case.  It was Lorin Jameson himself that told you he would reguard you as "white noise".  "I hear something but can't understand a word of it".    You, or I, did absolutly NO GOOD what-so-ever at SWG throughtout the entire last year.  Every CHANGE Blixtev wanted, he got.  We were both "white noise" even before we were called "white noise".

Best VOTE ANY of us have, is voting with our wallets and refusing to be force fed SOE CHANGES.

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Originally posted by Esquire1980

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Originally posted by admriker4

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by Ginaz

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Originally posted by Fishermage
 
Notice very carefully the wording I am responding to:
"anyone who plays SOE says it's okay to steal and lie."
That is an absolute statement of morality. It is a personal attack that amounts to: anyone who pays for something evil is saying it is okay. That's bunk.
It is a ridiculous absolute statement in the form of a personal attack. THAT is what I am responding to. It is a completely flawed argument on many levels.

---

 
I agree its a bit of a stretch to say current swg players think its ok to lie and steal.  Still, I have less respect for people that know what soe pulled and still continue to play.  For me, its like if you were to get ripped off or treated poorly by ,say, an automotive repair shop and all your friends and people that continue to go there know what happened but continue to give them their business anyway.  If I had a RL friend that did that, I can guarantee you they wouldn't be my friend for much longer.  But its their choice, they made their bed and now they have to lie in it.
I will never buy an soe or sony product ever again because of what happened.  Thats my choice.  Seriously, why is it so difficult for people to cancel a video and use the money on some other form of entertainment?  Why is it these people don't seem to care soe to lied to their customers and engaged in shady business practices when I'm pretty sure they wouldn't put up with the same treatment from any other business?
 

---

 

I have many reasons. One, I want to see how it all plays out, which I can't do from the sidelines. Two, I have friends that I still play with, and yes, I get some enjoyment from the times I have with them, when I do play. Three, it's no inconvenience to me at all, considering how cheap this all is -- the farce is more than worth the price of admission. Four, the game HAS in some ways improved, and I know that in a small way I and others like me have been a part of that.
Plus, I provide a fine counterbalance to those who would lie to defend the game. The fact that I get flamed equally by both sides always ensures me that I am taking the right course here.
I have many more reasons as well, and for me, they more than outweigh some dubious moral high ground.
the fact is the boycott hasn't produced a classic server; but brand loyalty og the people who stil play might just have proved to LA that a SW MMO is something still worth persuing after all this.
Had everyone just quit, and the game shut down, it is far more likely that we would never see another SW MMO. the fact that so many stayed convinced LA that there was enoigh brand loyalty to persue another game. If such a thing does occur, we will have all had a hand in it.
Either way we need to get beyond attacking one another and attack the real culprits. This crap just helps SOE, not us.
We can all play with all the analogies we want -- the fact is we are better served if we not attack each other.
 
 

---

 sorry fish but I will lay blame on you and your NGE friends. You are a danger to the MMO industry. Your wallet says its okay to violate the cardinal rule of MMO's and change the core game mechanics.  Your money says its okay to use subscriber money in any way they please.
 
You and your friends are frankly hurting the entire genre. And your also preventing any possible classic server launch. Why bother doing that if there are still 30k left to cover the bills ?
And I dont buy the story that new players to SWG are blameless because there is no way in hel they dont know about the now infamous background of this horrendous game.
If the remaining players all up and quit, SOE would either give us back our game (classic servers) or shut down (followed by spilling the beans on the next Star Wars MMO).
My anger lies with the current players as it should. Justify playing anyway you like...gameplay is good, my friends are all still there, etc  it doesnt really matter. This is about ethics, its about right and wrong.
And your comparison to political issues is waaaaaaaay off. I dont have a choice if troops are deployed or tax breaks are given to sleazy corporations. I do however have a choice on where I spend my money. Granted those choices are getting tougher and tougher because everyone owns each other. I dont buy from companies that benefited from the Holocaust. I dont buy from corporations that use slave labor like Walmart (again hard to avoid). And I dont buy from corporations that lie and steal from me.
Consumers can easily avoid SWG and SOE. They dont own everything yet. I can spend my money elsewhere and you should too.
I wont rest until SWG is shut down.

---

 
Sorry Fish, You already know that you and I often agree, but on this 1, I'll have to disagree.
While I will not say that "I won't rest until SWG is shut down", I will say that I will not fund their continued CHANGES.  SOE, by remaining with SWG, has givien their attitudes over to the entire gaming industry.  Funcom just pulled a SOE style nerf, not even 2 months after launch with a list of bugs to fix as long as your arm.  Definate SOE flashbacks.  I canceled that account too.
By continued subscriptions, sorry my friend, but you further enable them to keep going in the way they have come accustomed too.  By even a skeleton playerbase, it tells the entire gaming industry just exactly what a gaming company can "get away with" and still remain solvent. (maybe a loss in profits, but the bills still being paid)   And haveing SWG limp and drag along does not create a sence of urgency, with LA, to create another Star Wars MMORPG when 1 is out there allready.
For a long, long time i thought exactly as you do.  If I was there, I could do some