WAR (Warhammer Online)

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Originally posted by DarkDavis
It's just not going to work out well for us, any way you slice it, unless the game is delayed until it is FINISHED.

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There is no such thing as a finished game and to date NO MMO has ever launched with all the content they had planned/promised. Get used to it, the fact no one though that the game wouldn't have seen cuts or broken mechanics boggles me.

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by Scorchien

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by Scorchien

   Lol wow go read a little and get educated before you make a foolish post like this .... 4 of 24 classes .. the 4 removed were hybrids each realm still has a few tank and dps choices .. the 2 cities doesnt bother me and there will be content directed to each individual race...

 

Every class is hybrid.

Wrong

No class only does its designed role. Tank, melee dps, ranged dps, healer,  none of them are just that. Since they all need to fight, they all need to defend themselves both of them can play 2 roles. Most ranged dps classes have a way to support heal, all tanks can dps, all healers even when spec'd for healing can do dps. There are no traditional single classes is WAR.

This is the reason why the discussion cant get anywhere, people resort to passing out insults.

 Wrong

No, i am not.

Look, anyway you put it, 2 starting areas just got harder to play in. Without tanks, there is no one to hold the final bosses for the public quest events at the earlier teirs. Its not exactly doable with a  bunch of dps classes running circles trying not to get themselves killed.

 Wrong

Not speculation  actual first hand knowledge. Unless you believe low level tanks will trek across world at launch to do something they can do in their own zone. Maybe 5 months after launch but not at the begning, there is no need.

I just dont understand how 4 classes couldnt be ironed out in 5 months. Launch is not a week a away its 5 months away.  And the stripping of the cities while understandable but the same as stripping the classes.

 Wont matter

Explain

I just dont see how they can say in an interview they are already planning the first expansion when they have stripped down the original concept. Sounds as if they will give us what they originally promised us in an expansion and some people will just cheer and be happy to hear it.

 projection

No shit... I didnt claim to be an oracle when i made this post.

I wasnt going to play any of the classes they removed by removing the classes just destroys teh foundation they built all the races on and thats Tank, Melee dps, Range dps, Healer  I just doesnt make any logical sense that 4 races have effectivly been redouced to full support, leavin the strongest races as Elf and Chaos.

 Wrong

Explain.. unless you truly believe dps and healing are not support roles...

The worst of it is, removing the 4 races and saying that it will benifit us.   Wrong

Explain.

 

Surely you dont think you countered any of my arguements with this.

Dont quote me again unless you plan on adding actual depth you the discussion.

 

 

Okay perhaps some of what you say has merit.........perhaps you are in closed and therefore know or see something that we don't. 

The way I understood it..is this, the tiered areas etc will remain intact.   It is only the 4 capital cities that won't be in at this point..........so doesn't that mean that each race can go all the way in their own area...to tier 4 and then at that stage and LEVEL be able to migrate to one of the two main cities?

As for the missing capitals and missing "tanks".........I didn't read anywhere in what Mr Jacobs had to say..that they were cut permanently. 

Do you know something that the rest of us haven't been told?    If that is NDA material....please don't go any further.   But I really think if Mr Jacobs takes the time to post personally on one of the fansites...he's attempting to give us the needed information so that we ALL know whats going on...far as the NDA permits.

Cend

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by Scorchien

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by Scorchien

   Lol wow go read a little and get educated before you make a foolish post like this .... 4 of 24 classes .. the 4 removed were hybrids each realm still has a few tank and dps choices .. the 2 cities doesnt bother me and there will be content directed to each individual race...

 

Every class is hybrid.

Wrong

No class only does its designed role. Tank, melee dps, ranged dps, healer,  none of them are just that. Since they all need to fight, they all need to defend themselves both of them can play 2 roles. Most ranged dps classes have a way to support heal, all tanks can dps, all healers even when spec'd for healing can do dps. There are no traditional single classes is WAR.

SOME ARE HYBRIDS, Black orc for example ok yeah its a tank but can also do damage, well ofcourse it can but it wont meet a melee dps even when speced by that logic your only definition of a tank is one that stricly takes dmg and does nothing else. While yes they will be more viable in PVP then other games due to there abilities doing different things in areas that still makes them a tank, they may use a two hander but the yare still a tank heavy armor wearing class just simple doing dps, but that not nearly of that say a marauder. but just to be a pain then whats a magus? its does.......dps.....and nothing else, and a marauder isssssssssssssssssssss well just dps

This is the reason why the discussion cant get anywhere, people resort to passing out insults.

 Wrong

No, i am not.

Look, anyway you put it, 2 starting areas just got harder to play in. Without tanks, there is no one to hold the final bosses for the public quest events at the earlier teirs. Its not exactly doable with a  bunch of dps classes running circles trying not to get themselves killed.

 Wrong

Not speculation  actual first hand knowledge. Unless you believe low level tanks will trek across world at launch to do something they can do in their own zone. Maybe 5 months after launch but not at the begning, there is no need.

I dont see why not, pvp areas, diff instances ect. Also i would like to know your first hand knowledge did you ask a guy will you go here or several people or you are a tank and wont do it or your friend bitched about 1 issues with it or several in beta. Its speculation till release when the numbers will be even higher and diff people.

I just dont understand how 4 classes couldnt be ironed out in 5 months. Launch is not a week a away its 5 months away.  And the stripping of the cities while understandable but the same as stripping the classes.

 Wont matter

Explain

Well first you just guessed 5 months, but 4 classes require alot especialy with your own armor and such. But this opinion is invalid for us both unless you are a professional programmer or gave developer.

I just dont see how they can say in an interview they are already planning the first expansion when they have stripped down the original concept. Sounds as if they will give us what they originally promised us in an expansion and some people will just cheer and be happy to hear it.

 projection

No shit... I didnt claim to be an oracle when i made this post.

Well wow did it and no one bitched they just cheered but yeah just having your ideas ready doesnt mean its good to make.

I wasnt going to play any of the classes they removed by removing the classes just destroys teh foundation they built all the races on and thats Tank, Melee dps, Range dps, Healer  I just doesnt make any logical sense that 4 races have effectivly been redouced to full support, leavin the strongest races as Elf and Chaos.

 Wrong

Explain.. unless you truly believe dps and healing are not support roles...

Well its not like you are fighting with just your race , your race isnt your side its the side you are on is your side. Balance is around side vs side, they gave some other classes the left over stuff to make up for it and make the first two cities much bigger . But your logic of support implies everyone is support since they can support someone else in some fashion.

The worst of it is, removing the 4 races and saying that it will benifit us.   Wrong

Explain.

 

Surely you dont think you countered any of my arguements with this.

Dont quote me again unless you plan on adding actual depth you the discussion.

 

 

 also spreading areas will benefit your charicter by getting good armor in PQ and such, someone who was in beta mentioned that some orc PQ gives a bad ass axe for marauders,

Originally posted by DarkDavis

 

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Originally posted by SundersGhost
Okay, so let me begin with your first sentence. It's just not going to work out well for YOU.  not Us.  YOU.  From then on, what you state should be rethought from the angle of YOU, not US.  Thank you for sharing with us how the game will not work for YOU.  If that is truly the case, as has been said before by even Mark himself, don't buy the game if it is not right for you.  For those it works for, they can play the game and be happy.
Also as has been said, if you want the game to be delayed and it is not, simply do not buy it.  Wait 6 months, or a year, however long you think it should be delayed, and buy the game then (If the game is something you are interested in) and it can be the same as if they had delayed it... for you.
To save people the time of posting tangent rants about how we should not pay to Beta a game, that too is the choice of those who wish to pay for the game now, as opposed to later.  If YOU do not wish to pay for the game in its current state, don't.  For those that find it worth paying for now, permit them to without imposing your personal agendas on how they wish to spend THEIR leisure time and funds.  Thanks.
 

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I'm sorry, SundersGhost, but this post was for US not YOU. So kindly remember that when I was writing this post it was for US not YOU. So if YOU don't agree with it, YOU don't have to comment on it, YOU can let US discuss it. YOU should go to another thread to comment where people are writing posts for YOU. Thanks.

See how pretentious and annoying that is?

He is saying you can not speek for everyone, and you can't.  I trust them to what they have to, to make the game great.  I don't want crap classes. 

Its disheartening that people can't be civilized here, but oh well.

The notion that the classes were cut because they weren't great is a half truth. Its been out there that the Choppa and Hammerer weren't performing properly, because of their "berserking" mechanic combined with a morale bar they would go from being underpowered to overpowered, not to mention that berserking practically is a morale bar. The KOTBS was too much like a buffbot, and Mythic obviously doesn't want to have a class where people buy a second account, autofollow their main, and leave an aura up to gain a large advantage.

The Blackguard, however, mirrors the Ironbreaker just about perfectly. The only difference is the way that the hatred bar moves (it goes up when you and members of your group do damage, while the IB is when you and members of your group take damage) and the general look of the class. The problem with this is that if you leave the BG in, Destruction will have more tanks than Order.  It seems that the BG was not a victim of an unplayable design, but of being the last class introduced.

At least, thats how it seems to me. The KOTBS may be swapped for another class with a similar mechanic, but I think (hope) the BG will stay. As for the choppa/hammerer, I think they'll just get different mechanics. This is, of course, if Mythic ever adds the classes in. I honestly cannot see a game without the BG. It just makes absolutely sense not to include it. 1) It mirrors the Ironbreaker, who has a vital mechanic for PvE tanks and for PvP utility. 2) It is supposed to be Destruction's "anti-magic, offensive' tank, a-la Swordmaster. 3) This leaves Dark Elves (and Empire) without a tank, plus Dwarves/Orcs without a MDPS. Why would Mythic pull them for the sake of "making a great class, or a great game, and not a good one" when it comes at the expense of the THREE other classes in the faction pairing? Chaos and High Elves are going to be "great", and the other four factions are going to be "good"

Not to mention that the city change is absolutely lore breaking. Why are the dark elves attacking Aldorf? Why aren't they going for the HE city? Why do machiavellian, selfish, heartless Druchii give a damn about the Empire city? It just makes no sense. Dark Elves and Orcs get really shafted by this change, because they would never, ever go out of their way to help the chaos attack the Empire. DEs now have 3 lorebreaking classes, with the one class that MIGHT have been the bedrock of the typical Dark Elf mentality cut. The Bloody Sun Boyz now are 2 goblin classes and a Black Orc, neither of which are actually Bloody Sun Boyz orcs.

I DO like the idea that when you're really getting stomped now, you have no choice but to defend. Before, I thought that it would absolutely suck if you were underpopulated because you would always, always be pushed around. However, now, I feel that ingame it would be awesome (aside from lorebreaking, which as much as people say "lol, rp" it really does matter. Space elves and Protoss in WoW, anyone?). Imagine literally losing control of the map, being pushed back to your capitol city, and then having people tear it to shreds right infront of you. With the 3 city version, you could just go to another city and be fine, but with this it really makes the impact that much more powerful.

The only problem, though, is what the hell do you do when your city is busted up like that? Where do you go?

Originally posted by DarkDavis

It's just not going to work out well for us, any way you slice it, unless the game is delayed until it is FINISHED.

They're cutting two tanks, and two melee DPS. Now maybe those classes are only being delayed until after launch or maybe they're not going to be put into the game at all...Mr. Jacobs said they haven't decided yet.

Here's the problem:
If you cut out the tanks for any race, you now have a race that has no tank. This means they're no longer self-reliant. They now have to depend on a tank from another race if they need a meat shield for any specific content.

Normally that wouldn't be that big of a problem EXCEPT that A) It doesn't really fit with the lore of the Warhammer world (Games Workshop has to be upset about this) and B) They've ALSO cut the cities down to only TWO cities!!!

Now what's going to happen? You have races that can't be self-reliant, which is going to interfere with the lore of the game world and strip away racial identity because players are going to pretty much be forced to mingle with other races. You also have all the races smashed together in the Human and Chaos cities. This will strip away whatever small bit of racial identity was left for the Orcs/Dwarves, High Elf/Dark Elf segments.

The rest of the zones for each race will be intact right up through tier four.  The fact is that mythic has always intended the races all to interact with their allies otherwise what was the point of even having factions?

Besides you are talking as if their won't be any elbow room in the cites.  For what I know this places are going to massive and utterly loaded with quests and other content.  If you're basing you're impressions of MMO cities on WoW then you are missing the point.

Remember all the race-specific Tier zones? Whatever happened to all that? Each race with it's own area to level up and battle their own sworn enemies. Guess we can kiss it goodbye, because it's going to be hard to have race specific areas if everyone is starting out in the same city.

The cities are not the starting points in this games.  They are the endgame for RvR.  As far as I can tell the starting zones aren't anywhere near the cities.

What the eff, Mythic? The thing I was most looking forward to MMO-wise was seeing an accurate depicition of the Warhammer world, a world with a lot of racial tension and infighting. Now you're spinning your heels on us this late in the game?

I could deal with the frail alliances between the different races for the sake of game mechanics, it wasn't a big deal. But this latest move of cutting a fourth of the classes and mashing all the races into one city each...it's really a bad, bad idea.

First off 4/24 is 1/6 of the classes.  In newer interviews Mark has said that the other cities will physically be there they just won't be sackable (at least I think he said this I was alittle confused on the matter)

I see no way this can work the way you've laid it out and still end up a Warhammer game. You said you wanted to do it right. You said you wanted to be faithful to the material. You seem to be ACTING like you want to be the next Blizzard and not release games until they're done. So DO IT and stop caving to stockholders.

When it comes to haughty development principles, it's put up or shut up. Actions not words. Make the game the way you intended to, the way you told me you would, or I'm not buyin'. Tell that to your benefactors.

I understand if you are a angry over the recent annoucement.  I was too for a bit.  But I trust in Mythic's honestly that are working to make this thing work as best they can.  I don't know if this violates the spirit of the Warhammer Universe but I would expect that Games Workshop is keeping an eye on them and as the owners of the IP they have power to keep Mythic honest.