WAR (Warhammer Online)

Originally posted by Lonesamurai1

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by Lonesamurai1

Originally posted by altairzq

Honesty is not an excuse for bad planning. If they are having these problems now so close to open beta, it's very bad news.

This happens in every game in production

And Mark Jacobs is an arrogant person.

Nope, he is talking about HIS game, like I said in another thread...  and as he openly and totally unarrogantly said, "If your unhappy, please feel free to cancel your preorder"

 

Meaning that 1, you don;t like what he'ssaying about HIS game and its notgood enough for YOU and 2, you should pull your head out of your ass and take a look at all games, this happens to ALL games during development and testing phases and before release

 

So basicly your okay with an unfinished game being released because it happens to all games?  What a sad day when we as customers accept subpar products becuase its the norm.

I'm sorry, when wasthe last time ou bought a game on release day that had no bugs and didn;t need patching?

 

And for clarification, the last one I saw and bought that didn't need patching on first install on day of release was Doom 2

And Like I said..... What a sad day it is when we accept the subpar standards as the norm.

I am not saying your wrong, what I am saying is, dont you think its time to say enough is a enough and start demanding better?

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by Lork

Originally posted by TdogSkal

So I will leave you all with a question. WHY not push back the release date and finish the game if they are not having money issues?

 

Pushing the game back until next year would hurt the game IMO, i would prefer it to be pushed back but who am i to do so.  I don't believe its a money issue, but i do believe EA is pushing for a 08 release and to make sure its before WOTLK. The 4 classes were probably cut due to unbalance or they weren't polished enough, Mark him self said they won't put something in the game if its not good enough. The same goes for the Capitals they were probably complete, just not polished, a little rough around the edges so to speak.. So By cutting this contents out for release, they 1) Keep the release date for this year. 2) they keep EA happy. 3) They give the release a much less bugged game without this content.

I do believe we aren't getting the full side of the story, but atleast they said something, atleast they were honest. Give them the respect they deserve for having the balls to announce something this big that would hurt the game. They could of Done a SOE/ Funcom on us and said, Oh BTW 4 classes are gone and We took out 6 cities. I think the launch will be smooth, better than AoC, except with features and a game worth playing. The game will lose some End game features but not game breaking features people seem to be spazzing about. Just wait till NDA is lifted before we start calling this a Epic let down.

 

I agree, atleast they told the community.  I do give them respect for that.   It might not be a huge deal, the game might rock without that content or it might be an epic let down, we do have to wait and see.

My point is, I would have showed them alot more respect if they came out and told us that these parts are not ready yet but we will be release the game via open beta until we finish these features, then we will charge our customers.   We will not charge the community until we have a finished game.

Very unlikly to ever happen because it is a business and I understand that but if the game is not ready, then why release it? 

IF they really care about the community and making a great game for the community then why not fight to get the game pushed back?  Why can we as gamers not demand a finished product?

Why do we have to settle for unfinished games?  Whatever happen to demanding the best?   Why do we as gamers want to play a shell of what could have been a great game?

How can you do RvR with only 2 cities?  What if one gets seiged and lost to the other faction?   I know the answer to that and I do not like it.  (Instances)

You are asking the wrong person. War was shooting for the stars but only made it to the Moon does that mean they fail? They made it far on a certain timeline. This doesn't mean the game isn't finished, it doesn't mean its complete. They aimed high and came a little short, every mmo does. That doesn't mean the game will fail. Just wait for the NDA to be lifted.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by Grunties

Originally posted by altairzq

Honesty is not an excuse for bad planning. If they are having these problems now so close to open beta, it's very bad news.

And Mark Jacobs is an arrogant person.

 

What more appropriate time is there to cut features than when you are out of time? No one is going to cut planned features when they still have plenty of development time left so your argument about it being close to open beta is really just redundent.

Personally I would rather they aimed too high and dropped what they couldn't get than aim too low and give a subpar experience.

And yes, honesty is a great excuse. Because we are dealing with human beings that are not perfect, and honesty acknowledges that. You want them strung up because they aren't perfect. And you call Mark Jacobs arrogant?

 

See you have it all wrong.... I dont want to strung them up.  I want them to finish the game before releasing it to the public.   I want them to tell us the real reason behind the choice to release the game with only 2 of 6 cites and 2 of 6 tank classes.   I want them to explain how cutting these features makes the game better for me.  I want them to explain how cutting the players choices is going to make a better game.

I want them to explain why release a unfinished game is better for the MMO industry.  That is what I want.

I dont want to string them up.   I want to know why they choose to treat us like morons and expect us to believe that cutting features is going to make the game better.

They already did tell you, you're too busy hating to notice. So you'll say you don't believe MJ's reasons, that's fine, now you're officially stringing them up. So stop lying and saying you aren't. Like it or not, those are the reasons they made the decision.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by Lonesamurai1

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by Lonesamurai1

Originally posted by altairzq

Honesty is not an excuse for bad planning. If they are having these problems now so close to open beta, it's very bad news.

This happens in every game in production

And Mark Jacobs is an arrogant person.

Nope, he is talking about HIS game, like I said in another thread...  and as he openly and totally unarrogantly said, "If your unhappy, please feel free to cancel your preorder"

 

Meaning that 1, you don;t like what he'ssaying about HIS game and its notgood enough for YOU and 2, you should pull your head out of your ass and take a look at all games, this happens to ALL games during development and testing phases and before release

 

So basicly your okay with an unfinished game being released because it happens to all games?  What a sad day when we as customers accept subpar products becuase its the norm.

I'm sorry, when wasthe last time ou bought a game on release day that had no bugs and didn;t need patching?

 

And for clarification, the last one I saw and bought that didn't need patching on first install on day of release was Doom 2

 

And Like I said..... What a sad day it is when we accept the subpar standards as the norm.

I am not saying your wrong, what I am saying is, dont you think its time to say enough is a enough and start demanding better?

Welcome to the last 15years of gaming and the patch generation

The difference about Warhammer? it is ready for sale...  I'veplayed it, its good, but the devs aren;thappy with thingsand having seenthose issues, they are right about dropping what doesn;t work

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Celestian

 

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Originally posted by altairzq
Honesty is not an excuse for bad planning. If they are having these problems now so close to open beta, it's very bad news.
And Mark Jacobs is an arrogant person.

---

 

Problems? They are delaying content. How is that a problem. WoW delayed hero classes and siege warfare ... 4+ years and when they add it they are just adding a single hero class and hopefully siege warfare. God forbid Warhammer does half as well as WoW.

Want to talk bad planning, WoW... 2 years for an expansion, seriously? Again look how it's affected WoW... uh 10 million subscribers... damn must be terrible.

It's better to have working and fun content than AoCish content. If you don't agree then well you're in the minority there.

If it bothers you so much then just wait till the 4 classes and cities exist and create your own "delay".

I don't think it's just "content" the problem. Why? because it's too big a thing, they would have realiized months ago that they cound't do 6 cities. I could understand they taking out a feature or two from all the cities, or maybe 2 cites, but 4 cities out of 6? How could they fail to plan that amount of workload?

And then there is also the issue about doubling the content in every city. So it's llike 4 cities? Why not leave 4 cities as planed?

Not to alk about the testing of the conflic rotating between cities, when they will be available. Odd.

I  think the answer is that something is not working as intended in the game mechanics, and they have been forced to change it, but only have the time to fix two cities. So maybe, it's not about content, but about fixing things, and it's very late to start doing such things now.

Question altairzq are you beta testing the game atm?

Originally posted by TdogSkal

See you have it all wrong.... I dont want to strung them up.  I want them to finish the game before releasing it to the public.   I want them to tell us the real reason behind the choice to release the game with only 2 of 6 cites and 2 of 6 tank classes.   I want them to explain how cutting these features makes the game better for me.  I want them to explain how cutting the players choices is going to make a better game.

I want them to explain why release a unfinished game is better for the MMO industry.  That is what I want.

I dont want to string them up.   I want to know why they choose to treat us like morons and expect us to believe that cutting features is going to make the game better.

But heres the thing... the idea in your head of what 'finished' is? That is entirely based on Mythic's estimate on what they could get done by release time. Like all estimates, they can and do change. But there is nothing inherently true or absolute about that finished state. They could have never mentioned the number of cities or classes to be in the final product, and in that case you WOULD think the game was finished when you saw there would be 2 cities. 

What I'm trying to say, is that your idea of finished has some problems with it.

Now I spent a lot of time on AoC's boards before release to keep informed about its state. So in a sense I can still 'see' where you are coming from with this, and relate to the spirit of your message. As I concept I do agree that games should be finished before they are released. But where we differ is how we are defining finished.

My idea of finished is that everything that you are able to experience in the game, is fully functioning. Not bugged, nothing preventing quests from completing, no invisible walls in zones where you can't get to stuff, no empty vendors that should have things for sale but dont, nothing standing around as a placeholder that you are aware of but cant actually interract with because its disabled.  AoC had lots of things in game but most of them were broken in some way like this, and it was obvious when you tried to use them that they were missing or had problems. Sieges, Tradeskills, equipment, pvp etc. That is what unfinished is.

Now if Warhammer was like that, I would agree that it would be unfinished. But that is not what is happening, and its not what the game experience will be like when you log in.

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by Celestian

 

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Originally posted by altairzq
Honesty is not an excuse for bad planning. If they are having these problems now so close to open beta, it's very bad news.
And Mark Jacobs is an arrogant person.

---

 

Problems? They are delaying content. How is that a problem. WoW delayed hero classes and siege warfare ... 4+ years and when they add it they are just adding a single hero class and hopefully siege warfare. God forbid Warhammer does half as well as WoW.

Want to talk bad planning, WoW... 2 years for an expansion, seriously? Again look how it's affected WoW... uh 10 million subscribers... damn must be terrible.

It's better to have working and fun content than AoCish content. If you don't agree then well you're in the minority there.

If it bothers you so much then just wait till the 4 classes and cities exist and create your own "delay".

I don't think it's just "content" the problem. Why? because it's too big a thing, they would have realiized months ago that they cound't do 6 cities. I could understand they taking out a feature or two from all the cities, or maybe 2 cites, but 4 cities out of 6? How could they fail to plan that amount of workload?

And then there is also the issue about doubling the content in every city. So it's llike 4 cities? Why not leave 4 cities as planed?

Not to alk about the testing of the conflic rotating between cities, when they will be available. Odd.

I  think the answer is that something is not working as intended in the game mechanics, and they have been forced to change it, but only have the time to fix two cities. So maybe, it's not about content, but about fixing things, and it's very late to start doing such things now.

because adding content is easier then adding a city  incase you fail to understand that testing a new city design and making sure the player have at least a floor to walk on its harder then throwing NPC in there with the quests they have already programed them to have in the other 4 cities.

not everything has to have a deeper meaning altairzq...

and i know they say this has nothing to do with EA but couldn't it be as simple as mythic is not getting the funding for another 6 months...(i mean i don't believe so but if you beleive the main mechanics are working you could beleive anything)

and IT IS NOT TOO LATE to fix a game  isn't that what most patches are..Mythic is trying to give us a balanced game with as little bugs as possable before 2009  they are on their ow