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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Darkfall

Darkfall 

General Discussion  » GameWorldGR claims there where not “many inaccuracies and mistakes” in there article as Tasos has claimed.

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71 posts found
  Spamalot345

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/08
Posts: 122

7/11/08 2:15:30 PM#41

I realize I'm just some noob poster, but I've been following this Darkfall game for a bit now and the funny thing is, one of the first things that struck me when I looked into it was what an incredible scam this thing could turn out to be.

Basically all you need to do is convince an investor or two to buy into the thing selling them on the idea that they are going to become Blizzard-level wealthy and you can just keep the money flowing in. I mean if true gamers, some with real industry experience, find it understandable that this game isn't released after, what, 7 years in development, how in the world would non-industry investors be able to figure out whether or not it's time to pull the plug.

I'm not saying that that's what's happening with Darkfall, but the fact is there's ABSOLUTELY NO FOOTAGE of a person playing this so-called game... after 7 years! I've seen video of something that may or may not be in-game footage but nothing so far has been anything other than stuff that could have been created in absence of a real game system.

Whatever others might say (including possible Averntine shills - wouldn't put it passed them since employment histories were changed based on posts on this board) Polar, you've done a great job uncovering this information and helping this community see what's going on behind the curtain as far as this game is concerned.

  Silvarch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/26/08
Posts: 238

7/11/08 3:12:51 PM#42
Originally posted by maskedweasel

For starters Polarization

"And I already gave a brief list of obvious common sense reasons why they might have been behaving in this way, but your still asking me why they are."

Its all just to prove a point Polar, all I'm saying is that they're doing it for a reason.  You gave me possible reasons,  ONE of those reasons is that they're trying to launch this game.  I don't see how thats tough to understand.   The only other actual plausible reason is if they were trying to rip off investors and steal money that way -- which is illegal and punishable by imprisonment.

"nd you have decided that I have only provided “old information” that you apparently don’t consider has anything to do with the project."

Face it Polar, this is old information.  It happened  years ago, uncovering it now doesn't make it any newer.  I don't think it has anything to do with the actual project -- no I don't --  and personally I could care less if Adventurine releases DarkFall or if SOE does after they buy it off them like they did with Sigil and Vanguard.  Running out of money has no validity on the actual project bub, thats all I'm saying.

"And you still seem to believe that Tasos will release that comprehensive game play video he mentioned 2 months ago “soon”.

Hey, whether or not we get a video it doesn't bother me -- I'm just repeating what information I have to go on -- and that is basically that they have no PR person or Advertising agent, which usually would be responsible for putting together Trailers and such.  Personally I'd like to wait til the end of 08 (not like I have much of a choice) to see how things pan out.      I expect you'll do the same whether you like it or not too.    If we see a video great, if not,  then I guess we'll just keep "waiting" for Darkfall.

And you still think its pretty early to tell what’s going to happen to a project after 8 years of development with still no public beta, publishing or launch information / dates, I don’t think there’s really any point in continuing this conversation.

Well, with a 2008 release date that they claim to be "FIRM" I stand to reason yes, this is too early.  Development times really don't mean anything to me... I heard about them shooting a Max Payne movie back in 2003 and I was really excited.. turns out they might shoot it and it will actually come out this year.  I'm not holding my breath, but they say its pretty firm too.  I'll wait and see --- thats all I'm saying.

SILVARCH buddy,

"I am sorry maskedweasel, but to me, with statements like these:

"If he lied or exaggerated does that really change anything?  Who hasn't exaggerated on a resume ah?"

"Master Polar! You have done it sir! You have defeated the dreaded Flampouras and ended his reign of tyranny.  That should teach him never to exaggerate again!"

These were both jokes, the first one was a half-joke the second one was a crack at polar cause I thought it was funny -- he single handedly saved the world from a potential liar.  Thats funny to me.  I like Polar, don't get me wrong, I just feel the way he worded it sounded a little dramatic.

Faith in the developers notwithstanding, how do you know this "Hey they're good questions, but you also have to take into account the WHY they are doing it.. and its purely to try and put this game out." to be true?

How do I know that its true?  The same reasons you know its not true. The game is in development, if it ISNT in development then Adventurine is in very big trouble legally.  Either way I'm happy.  Even if development goes on for 30 more years I'll be happy.. I'm really not as avid a supporter as you claim --- but for this forum.. and for you Silvarch, I will be.

As I stated before, until the game is no longer in development, launched, sold, or actually confirmed as a hoax all information pertaining to the speculation in regards to darkfall and or its developers means very little to me.  I'm a big picture kinda guy.  All these little things don't change the big picture for me, maybe if you explain to me exactly how Tasos saying he worked in development for Microsoft when he really brought Bill Gates his coffee really changes that a game named DarkFall is in development and has a suposed release date of 2008 then I would gladly change my stand.

Plus if you guys read all this I'll send you both lollypops.

 

Hmm, where to begin...

Face it Polar, this is old information.  It happened  years ago, uncovering it now doesn't make it any newer.

I take it you consider discoveries in anthropology, history and hell, physics, old information as well, then. New or old when it pertains to information has nothing to do with how recent the event it covers is, but on previous knowledge of it. This was not widely known before, thus new. Or are you saying you knew of this before Polarization's posts?

Development times really don't mean anything to me

Understood, then we will take your opinion on how it's "too early" or otherwise regarding them as appropriately meaningless.

I don't think it has anything to do with the actual project -- no I don't --  and personally I could care less if Adventurine releases DarkFall or if SOE does after they buy it off them like they did with Sigil and Vanguard.  Running out of money has no validity on the actual project bub, thats all I'm saying.

You must mean you couldn't care less, because saying you could care less means that you do care. Running out of money means the project gets canned, or ships as a crippled version of its original vision, as with the example you so kindly provided. That, by the way, has been our point all along and has a lot to do with the project.

How do I know that its true?  The same reasons you know its not true. The game is in development, if it ISNT in development then Adventurine is in very big trouble legally.

I don't know anything about the state of the game to be true, hence my doubts and nonconformity with what's been claimed, nor have I ever expressed  or implied that I do. The notion that you can derive conclusive evidence and know something must be true simply because the alternative is illegal is extremely naive, especially when there's precedent (illegal activities in the handling of a company by the very same people that own Aventurine). Under that logic it would be inconceivable that people commit crimes, because they're illegal.

All I can think of when I read your post is that you're supporter who doesn't care if they lie, fabricate stuff at a conference, do not care about the community enough to provide solid information about anything, and outright have illegal dealings in the management of a company, or how long they take to do anything because you have very low standards. You're easily convinced (easier than the so called vaportrolls at least) and disregard anything not directly related to the DF project but intimately related to the people involved in it. That's not looking at the big picture. Looking at the big picture means taking everything into account and trying to see how it fits together, and realizing that everything affects everything and determining how it does. The big picture indicates that if they've lied, fabricated stuff about something in public, and have done anything illegal in the management of something, nothing precludes them from having done the same with Aventurine and the DF project. I for one hope for the best, but I expect the worst.

Plus if you guys read all this I'll send you both lollypops.

I'll contact you with a shipping address.

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7264

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

7/11/08 3:48:55 PM#43
Originally posted by Silvarch

 

Hmm, where to begin...

Face it Polar, this is old information.  It happened  years ago, uncovering it now doesn't make it any newer.

I take it you consider discoveries in anthropology, history and hell, physics, old information as well, then. New or old when it pertains to information has nothing to do with how recent the event it covers is, but on previous knowledge of it. This was not widely known before, thus new. Or are you saying you knew of this before Polarization's posts?

Development times really don't mean anything to me

Understood, then we will take your opinion on how it's "too early" or otherwise regarding them as appropriately meaningless.

I don't think it has anything to do with the actual project -- no I don't --  and personally I could care less if Adventurine releases DarkFall or if SOE does after they buy it off them like they did with Sigil and Vanguard.  Running out of money has no validity on the actual project bub, thats all I'm saying.

You must mean you couldn't care less, because saying you could care less means that you do care. Running out of money means the project gets canned, or ships as a crippled version of its original vision, as with the example you so kindly provided. That, by the way, has been our point all along and has a lot to do with the project.

How do I know that its true?  The same reasons you know its not true. The game is in development, if it ISNT in development then Adventurine is in very big trouble legally.

I don't know anything about the state of the game to be true, hence my doubts and nonconformity with what's been claimed, nor have I ever expressed  or implied that I do. The notion that you can derive conclusive evidence and know something must be true simply because the alternative is illegal is extremely naive, especially when there's precedent (illegal activities in the handling of a company by the very same people that own Aventurine). Under that logic it would be inconceivable that people commit crimes, because they're illegal.

All I can think of when I read your post is that you're supporter who doesn't care if they lie, fabricate stuff at a conference, do not care about the community enough to provide solid information about anything, and outright have illegal dealings in the management of a company, or how long they take to do anything because you have very low standards. You're easily convinced (easier than the so called vaportrolls at least) and disregard anything not directly related to the DF project but intimately related to the people involved in it. That's not looking at the big picture. Looking at the big picture means taking everything into account and trying to see how it fits together, and realizing that everything affects everything and determining how it does. The big picture indicates that if they've lied, fabricated stuff about something in public, and have done anything illegal in the management of something, nothing precludes them from having done the same with Aventurine and the DF project. I for one hope for the best, but I expect the worst.

Plus if you guys read all this I'll send you both lollypops.

I'll contact you with a shipping address.


 

Thanks for giving it a go Silvarch I really appreciate it.

"I take it you consider discoveries in anthropology, history and hell, physics, old information as well, then. New or old when it pertains to information has nothing to do with how recent the event it covers is, but on previous knowledge of it. This was not widely known before, thus new. Or are you saying you knew of this before Polarization's posts?"

I disagree here, mainly because new discoveries in anthropology actually change the outcome of the find greatly.  Its like saying this particular tribe was originally believed to never have used a fork, until a fork was found -- this greatly changes that view.   I don't see how Razorwax going bankrupt changes the view of how Adventurine is still creating a game called DarkFall. I mean the project isn't clearly defined by a single person, although I will for arguments sake Concede to the terms that Razorwaxes involvement, bakruptcy and dealings may have had its effect on the project at the time, or, perhaps could foreshadow the projects fate,   --- but only under the circumstance that its only a supposition and not a definite.

You must mean you couldn't care less, because saying you could care less means that you do care. Running out of money means the project gets canned, or ships as a crippled version of its original vision, as with the example you so kindly provided. That, by the way, has been our point all along and has a lot to do with the project.

Well to say I don't care at all would be incorrect.  I care enough to write these lengthy replies, not enough to reserve myself to be DarkFalls last hope for a forumfighter.  I like the idea, I'd like to see it come to a happy ending.  Personally I feel something will come of it, and I'm actually hoping for a Sigil effect more then anything else.   Now it shipping in a critical version of itself would be FANTASTIC, and believe it or not, I think that would be some kind of accomplishment.  At least it would be a good starting point for another developer to look at it, and deem whether its worth saving or scrapping.  Maybe even a good groundbase for Mortal Online?  Hopefully the end of 08 will be a good tell.

I don't know anything about the state of the game to be true, hence my doubts and nonconformity with what's been claimed, nor have I ever expressed  or implied that I do. The notion that you can derive conclusive evidence and know something must be true simply because the alternative is illegal is extremely naive, especially when there's precedent (illegal activities in the handling of a company by the very same people that own Aventurine). Under that logic it would be inconceivable that people commit crimes, because they're illegal.

I disagree, I don't confirm or deny that DarkFall is in development primarily because the alternative is illegal.  I simply state that the legallity of this would simply be that DarkFall is actually in development.  I'm not saying that they aren't pulling everyones leg.... but I'd prefer innocent until proven guilty instead of the other way around.  I'd LIKE to believe that after all this time SOMETHING is in development.      So I ask you   do you truly believe DarkFall is in development?    In the paragraph before you said that the point you and Polar were trying to make is that Darkfall will release but in a shattered state, so is this what you believe or do you believe nothing has been developed at all?   Two very different things, two very different outcomes.

You're easily convinced (easier than the so called vaportrolls at least) and disregard anything not directly related to the DF project but intimately related to the people involved in it. That's not looking at the big picture. Looking at the big picture means taking everything into account and trying to see how it fits together, and realizing that everything affects everything and determining how it does. The big picture indicates that if they've lied, fabricated stuff about something in public, and have done anything illegal in the management of something, nothing precludes them from having done the same with Aventurine and the DF project. I for one hope for the best, but I expect the worst.

I'm not easily convinced of anything, and this isn't me trying to convince you personally that DarkFall will swoop in and save the day.  Darkfall is the only one that can convince you of that.  And I'm in a very different situation because I, Myself, have ultimate patience ... because if the game doesn't come out its not going to hurt me .. I don't want it as much as others, so its easy for me not to feel cheated when they don't release a video or update every week.    I just like to hear the information as it comes.

As for the big picture... if I haven't made myself clear yet, the big picture to me is just the outcome of this game.  Simply, and justly.  Going bankrupt to me just means the games probably just been delayed and moved to another developer.  If its the same Developers, yeah, thats something more to worry about, but I can tell you that if it is, theres a very good chance a lawsuit will come of that.   Its like a mystery,   and I want you to be honest..... truthfully honest with me.   Do you know more about the games development than I do?           Do you know as a fact that this game will not launch?       If possible provide proof if your answers are yes .. but please be honest.      

With unknown information there always leaves room for hope.  I want this so I hope.  And it never hurts to want something and be excited about it.   I don't feel bad of mock them if fanbois get mislead... why should they be hurt for hoping this company stays true to their word?      For all this arguing it boils down to what you can prove, and right now, if neither of us can prove anything, then this games still go at the end of 08.

 

P.S. Don't forget to put the flavor of lolly you want.. very important

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  fantaros

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/06
Posts: 400

7/11/08 4:01:58 PM#44
Originally posted by gotha

Did any of you bright bright people ever think of having a an actual greek translation the article instead of using google translator.  That would filter out a lot of the inaccuracies we think we are seeing.  After you do that you could easily bring them point for point to the gameworlds.gr people and actually get some real answers.

 

Just think it would be a better idea then emailing them like a patronizing idiot using a crub google translation.

 

You could also just ask Galadron since he is greek,  and probably has a shtload better position on this article then most of us non greek speakers.

 

Then once you get that done,  email the gamesworld fellow back asking him about work exp.  and the necron quote.

The translation posted in the other thread where the article is mentioned is pretty accurate.

  Spamalot345

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/08
Posts: 122

7/11/08 4:06:10 PM#45
Originally posted by maskedweasel

 For all this arguing it boils down to what you can prove, and right now, if neither of us can prove anything, then this games still go at the end of 08.


Why would it boil down to this? Why wouldn't it boil down to past experience and whether or not previous "promises" have been kept?

Which, in that case, means the game will not appear in '08... or '09... etc.

  Silvarch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/26/08
Posts: 238

7/11/08 4:44:59 PM#46

Okay, let's see...

I disagree that it's not new information. To put it simply, if you didn't know something and you're informed of it, it's new information, regardless if your conclusions change or not. It does not have to challenge generally accepted views to be new, it only has to be previously unknown.

I wouldn't hope for a Sigil outcome, that was disastrous for all the parties involved, and the developers got seriously burned.

I don't understand this statement : "I simply state that the legallity of this would simply be that DarkFall is actually in development."

Innocent until proven guilty is not definite nor conclusive evidence of a game in development. It only means it's not certain they're scamming or doing anything illegal until proven. Whether they're making a game or what state the game is actually in, or if they're scamming and doing anything illegal, is just speculation, but they're all equally valid. All Polarization did was show evidence of their previous dealings, if not outright lies (Razorwax merged, Tasos' credentials, etc), and make conjectures based on those. You reject those assumptions by replacing them with some of your own without even showing circumstantial evidence to back them up, just faith. Faith that they're innocent and not guilty.

I personally believe they have something, but that something isn't close to the DF they've promised. Others believe they have nothing at all. Unfortunately they both fall under vaporware. The shared point is that, one way or the other, DF is vaporware. It's just an opinion, however, and you can disagree. Time will tell.

Looking at just the outcome of the game is not looking at a big picture. I believe there's some confusion in the usage of the expression. If you don't really care about the details surrounding it, only if the game is released or not, you can't possibly claim to be looking at the big picture. The final picture, maybe, but certainly not the big picture.

I don't know if I know more about game development than you do, I only know one side of the inequality. I don't know what you know. I don't know anything about the true state of the game, as I've said before. If you do know something factual, would you please share it with us so we can stop assuming and start knowing? If you don't, then you can't discount or state as meaningless anyone else's assumptions without supporting evidence, especially when they show verifiable evidence themselves to support their assumptions.

 

 

  Polarization

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 1430

ubi dubium ibi libertas

 
OP  7/12/08 9:16:35 AM#47

Maskedweasel, I don’t want to appear rude but like I said , I wont be continuing the conversation with you if by your own admission you are only playing devils advocate and your dismissing most or everything I have found recently as not being relevant in one way or another or anything else that is known about this company and its project.

I think Its rather pointless to be continuing that conversation with yourself, and you will be doing so until you can actually provide something tangible (excluding Tasos’s words or your own) that supports your own apparently rather positive and optimist faith based speculation about the potential or possibilities you consider this project might achieve at some time in the future.

  ermorden

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 137

I love children, I just never can finish a whole one.

7/12/08 8:11:39 PM#48
Originally posted by Polarization
Originally posted by Galadourn
Originally posted by gotha

Did any of you bright bright people ever think of having a an actual greek translation the article instead of using google translator.  That would filter out a lot of the inaccuracies we think we are seeing.  After you do that you could easily bring them point for point to the gameworlds.gr people and actually get some real answers.

 

Just think it would be a better idea then emailing them like a patronizing idiot using a crub google translation.

 

You could also just ask Galadron since he is greek,  and probably has a shtload better position on this article then most of us non greek speakers.

 

Then once you get that done,  email the gamesworld fellow back asking him about work exp.  and the necron quote.

 

If I'm not mistaken, the main point of concern in relation to Tasos's interview, is his past experience. But there is no way any of us can verify this information (other than asking Tasos directly )


But I have already proven beyond reasonable doubt that Tasos never worked on Age of Empires, Ashersons Call, Messiah or for Microsoft, Turbine, Ensemble Studios or Shiney Entertainament.

Because his name does not even appear as even an intern or a tester on any of the credits for any of those games or from the people credited from the company’s involved in their creation.

 

 

Sorry, but you've proven that he wasn't listed in the credits of those projects.  If you're going to try to discredit someone to the brink of slander, call the companies and get HR to verify employment.  Credits do not equal employment records. 

  Theodgrim

Novice Member

Joined: 9/17/06
Posts: 548

7/12/08 10:25:34 PM#49
Originally posted by ermorden
Originally posted by Polarization


 

 

But I have already proven beyond reasonable doubt that Tasos never worked on Age of Empires, Ashersons Call, Messiah or for Microsoft, Turbine, Ensemble Studios or Shiney Entertainament.

Because his name does not even appear as even an intern or a tester on any of the credits for any of those games or from the people credited from the company’s involved in their creation.

 

Sorry, but you've proven that he wasn't listed in the credits of those projects.  If you're going to try to discredit someone to the brink of slander, call the companies and get HR to verify employment.  Credits do not equal employment records. 

Come on now, lets get reasonable.  We dont need to call any HR departments, because we dont really care if he was the front desk receptionist at the game studio.  The FACT is, he didnt even warrant credit as a freaking intern.  His contribution to any of those projects were AT BEST so insignificant he went unlisted in the credits.

He was giving this info at a conference on games!  The very clear insinuation is that he had some sort of significant role.  Clearly he did not.

This is the same guy that claims he was badly misquoted, yet he CONFIRMED the information to the source, with only a change of his role at Aventurine. 

I honestly have a hard time believing how gullible some people are...but I try to remember that I was once wet behind the ears too.  (this comment not directed at anyone in particular, but a general observation)

  SlyLoK

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 961

7/13/08 2:13:09 AM#50

How can people continue to defend this pathological liar? It is insane - borderline stupidity.. Wait it is stupidity.

All devs / people who contribute in any meaningful way in a games development would get listed in the credits.. They even list the testers and ' special ' contributers. Tasos is nowhere to be found in any and so it is obvious he had nothing to do with any of those games. He was just trying to pad his image in an area oblivious to what he and Darkfall are all about.

  BosamMaster

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/08
Posts: 16

7/13/08 2:33:16 AM#51
Originally posted by SlyLoK

How can people continue to defend this pathological liar? It is insane - borderline stupidity.. Wait it is stupidity.

 

There are millions of people who worship some book written thousands of years ago by a bunch of guys with nothing better to do.It's not that hard to believe that there are a few hundred idiots following this game and eating up all the nonsense the "devs" throw at them.

  User Deleted
7/13/08 2:40:32 AM#52
Originally posted by BosamMaster
Originally posted by SlyLoK

How can people continue to defend this pathological liar? It is insane - borderline stupidity.. Wait it is stupidity.

 

There are millions of people who worship some book written thousands of years ago by a bunch of guys with nothing better to do.It's not that hard to believe that there are a few hundred idiots following this game and eating up all the nonsense the "devs" throw at them.

Blasphemous AND accurate in one.
 

I tip my hat to you, good sir.

  ermorden

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 137

I love children, I just never can finish a whole one.

7/13/08 6:32:00 AM#53
Originally posted by SlyLoK

How can people continue to defend this pathological liar? It is insane - borderline stupidity.. Wait it is stupidity.

All devs / people who contribute in any meaningful way in a games development would get listed in the credits.. They even list the testers and ' special ' contributers. Tasos is nowhere to be found in any and so it is obvious he had nothing to do with any of those games. He was just trying to pad his image in an area oblivious to what he and Darkfall are all about.

 

Oh wow, wait.  You just convinced me.  Darkfall is vaporware and they are all lying.  God I've been so naive.  Tasos MUST be a complete liar, especially if his name wasn't anywhere in those lists of credits.  Wow, I've been had.  Everyone knows you have to have been a lead dev or credited in every project you've ever done in order to be successful in the future at all.  What was I thinking!?  I mean forget contract work that could have been done on any of these projects, that doesn't count at all.  I need a name in credits and this guy is obviously lying. 

  Ciredric

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 724

7/13/08 7:10:53 AM#54

The only qualification that Tasos needs is the ability to lead a software project.  It seems obvious to most of us that is a qualification he evidently does not have.

  Silvarch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/26/08
Posts: 238

7/13/08 10:46:50 AM#55
Originally posted by ermorden
Originally posted by SlyLoK

How can people continue to defend this pathological liar? It is insane - borderline stupidity.. Wait it is stupidity.

All devs / people who contribute in any meaningful way in a games development would get listed in the credits.. They even list the testers and ' special ' contributers. Tasos is nowhere to be found in any and so it is obvious he had nothing to do with any of those games. He was just trying to pad his image in an area oblivious to what he and Darkfall are all about.

 

Oh wow, wait.  You just convinced me.  Darkfall is vaporware and they are all lying.  God I've been so naive.  Tasos MUST be a complete liar, especially if his name wasn't anywhere in those lists of credits.  Wow, I've been had.  Everyone knows you have to have been a lead dev or credited in every project you've ever done in order to be successful in the future at all.  What was I thinking!?  I mean forget contract work that could have been done on any of these projects, that doesn't count at all.  I need a name in credits and this guy is obviously lying. 

*sighs*

Contractors get credited. Anyone that worked on the project gets credited. The sociable coffee boy gets special thanks credit. Why is that so hard to understand? It's extremely unlikely that he worked on 4 different projects and didn't get credit in any of them. The objectionable thing is not that he's inexperienced, everyone has to start somewhere, it's that he's trying to get around it by attempting to create credentials out of thin air.

  SlyLoK

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 961

7/13/08 11:21:46 AM#56
Originally posted by ermorden
Originally posted by SlyLoK

How can people continue to defend this pathological liar? It is insane - borderline stupidity.. Wait it is stupidity.

All devs / people who contribute in any meaningful way in a games development would get listed in the credits.. They even list the testers and ' special ' contributers. Tasos is nowhere to be found in any and so it is obvious he had nothing to do with any of those games. He was just trying to pad his image in an area oblivious to what he and Darkfall are all about.

 

Oh wow, wait.  You just convinced me.  Darkfall is vaporware and they are all lying.  God I've been so naive.  Tasos MUST be a complete liar, especially if his name wasn't anywhere in those lists of credits.  Wow, I've been had.  Everyone knows you have to have been a lead dev or credited in every project you've ever done in order to be successful in the future at all.  What was I thinking!?  I mean forget contract work that could have been done on any of these projects, that doesn't count at all.  I need a name in credits and this guy is obviously lying. 

 

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Actually.. You need to convince me that this game actually exists and that they havent been stealing the investment money they obviously have been getting from no name guys and companies.

Until I see a video with a UI , someone in a town , in a dungeon and fighting in a semi large PvP battle I will not view this game as having any validity to it. A " feature complete " game should have no problem producing such a video.

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7264

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

7/13/08 11:28:48 AM#57
Originally posted by Polarization

 

Maskedweasel, I don’t want to appear rude but like I said , I wont be continuing the conversation with you if by your own admission you are only playing devils advocate and your dismissing most or everything I have found recently as not being relevant in one way or another or anything else that is known about this company and its project.

I think Its rather pointless to be continuing that conversation with yourself, and you will be doing so until you can actually provide something tangible (excluding Tasos’s words or your own) that supports your own apparently rather positive and optimist faith based speculation about the potential or possibilities you consider this project might achieve at some time in the future.


 

Basically a cop out, and thats alright. because anything without "tangible" evidence of being developed by your standard would therefore not be developed eventhough -- according to silvarch you both believe this game to be in development.

My argument that this game is being developed?  Well an old video, some screenshots, a developer journal, and a few websites one in particular with a launch date of TBA2008.   Just because you can dig up the past polar and just because you believe everything you see to be connected to the fate of this project  doesn't make it so.  You're just an ousider on the project like everyone else with a lot of spare time on your hands to "uncover" the truth.  Does the truth include this game not being in development?  Thats all I'm asking.  If the game isn't in development then we can consider it vaporware until launch.  But we should add many more games to that vaporware list, just about anything in development.

All this information really has very little relevance to how far along the project is, when and if it will launch, and what state ADVENTURINE is in.  Now if you can give us that RELEVANT information to the project (y'know.. stuff more recent regarding DarkFall)  I might change my tune.

Silvarch

I don't understand this statement : "I simply state that the legallity of this would simply be that DarkFall is actually in development."

Basically all I'm saying is that if they were doing things legally the actual belief would be that the game is in development.

Silvarch and Polarization,   all I'm trying to do is prove that you don't know.   And by these conversations you really don't know much more then any of us.  You make us believe this information will be the downfall of Adventurine and DarkFall, but it really doesn't give us any more insight to what Adventurines current dealings are then we had before.

Maybe 5 years ago this would have rocked our feeble Darkfall world, now it's just something that happened a long time ago.

And since you both take me as such an avid DarkFall follower, I gotta say, I really hope this does launch just cause i wanna see what you'll say next.

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7264

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

7/13/08 11:31:13 AM#58
Originally posted by Silvarch
Originally posted by ermorden
Originally posted by SlyLoK

How can people continue to defend this pathological liar? It is insane - borderline stupidity.. Wait it is stupidity.

All devs / people who contribute in any meaningful way in a games development would get listed in the credits.. They even list the testers and ' special ' contributers. Tasos is nowhere to be found in any and so it is obvious he had nothing to do with any of those games. He was just trying to pad his image in an area oblivious to what he and Darkfall are all about.

 

Oh wow, wait.  You just convinced me.  Darkfall is vaporware and they are all lying.  God I've been so naive.  Tasos MUST be a complete liar, especially if his name wasn't anywhere in those lists of credits.  Wow, I've been had.  Everyone knows you have to have been a lead dev or credited in every project you've ever done in order to be successful in the future at all.  What was I thinking!?  I mean forget contract work that could have been done on any of these projects, that doesn't count at all.  I need a name in credits and this guy is obviously lying. 

*sighs*

Contractors get credited. Anyone that worked on the project gets credited. The sociable coffee boy gets special thanks credit. Why is that so hard to understand? It's extremely unlikely that he worked on 4 different projects and didn't get credit in any of them. The objectionable thing is not that he's inexperienced, everyone has to start somewhere, it's that he's trying to get around it by attempting to create credentials out of thin air.


 

This is a good point, I wonder if they'd put just the studio name though that worked on the project?

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  Silvarch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/26/08
Posts: 238

7/13/08 4:56:58 PM#59
Originally posted by maskedweasel
Originally posted by Polarization

 

 

 

Maskedweasel, I don’t want to appear rude but like I said , I wont be continuing the conversation with you if by your own admission you are only playing devils advocate and your dismissing most or everything I have found recently as not being relevant in one way or another or anything else that is known about this company and its project.

I think Its rather pointless to be continuing that conversation with yourself, and you will be doing so until you can actually provide something tangible (excluding Tasos’s words or your own) that supports your own apparently rather positive and optimist faith based speculation about the potential or possibilities you consider this project might achieve at some time in the future.


 

Basically a cop out, and thats alright. because anything without "tangible" evidence of being developed by your standard would therefore not be developed eventhough -- according to silvarch you both believe this game to be in development.

My argument that this game is being developed?  Well an old video, some screenshots, a developer journal, and a few websites one in particular with a launch date of TBA2008.   Just because you can dig up the past polar and just because you believe everything you see to be connected to the fate of this project  doesn't make it so.  You're just an ousider on the project like everyone else with a lot of spare time on your hands to "uncover" the truth.  Does the truth include this game not being in development?  Thats all I'm asking.  If the game isn't in development then we can consider it vaporware until launch.  But we should add many more games to that vaporware list, just about anything in development.

All this information really has very little relevance to how far along the project is, when and if it will launch, and what state ADVENTURINE is in.  Now if you can give us that RELEVANT information to the project (y'know.. stuff more recent regarding DarkFall)  I might change my tune.

Silvarch

I don't understand this statement : "I simply state that the legallity of this would simply be that DarkFall is actually in development."

Basically all I'm saying is that if they were doing things legally the actual belief would be that the game is in development.

Silvarch and Polarization,   all I'm trying to do is prove that you don't know.   And by these conversations you really don't know much more then any of us.  You make us believe this information will be the downfall of Adventurine and DarkFall, but it really doesn't give us any more insight to what Adventurines current dealings are then we had before.

Maybe 5 years ago this would have rocked our feeble Darkfall world, now it's just something that happened a long time ago.

And since you both take me as such an avid DarkFall follower, I gotta say, I really hope this does launch just cause i wanna see what you'll say next.

 

I've stated repeatedly I don't know anything about the true state of the game. I don't understand why you're trying to prove something I've always admitted and have never claimed otherwise. The point is neither do you, so you can't stand on a moral or factual high ground and discount Polarization's assumptions, based on verifiable empirical evidence, because you prefer your own assumptions to that. We have not said it's impossible for everything they say to be true, we just disagree with you on how probable it is. I do not make or try to make anyone believe anything, but it does give us insight into the dealings of Aventurine, so you can form your own conclusions. Even though you say it's not directly related to the DF project (I think it is), you can't deny the fact that it is intimately related to the people behind the project, and so far we haven't gotten any indication that the same thing is not happening.

"Basically all I'm saying is that if they were doing things legally the actual belief would be that the game is in development."

Excellent example of the begging the question logical fallacy. Nothing but faith backs up this belief, especially when there is illegal precedent involving these people.

The vaporware categorization isn't for all unreleased games, there are several types of it and several of which DF meets. Do check definitions, you will find out why DF does while most unreleased games do not.

The people who see this new information and have the ability to understand it for what it is are the intended audience of it, it's not meant to "change your tune" or anyone else's who thinks it's completely unrelated, indoctrination can only be overcome from within. You can't discount it because "it doesn't change anything for you" or because you think it's unrelated, unless you can actually prove it's offbase and unfounded with by presenting some sort of supporting evidence. Otherwise you're just saying your assumptions are better than someone else's because you disagree with them, not because of any real evidence. Not real, because unlike facts presented by Polarization which are verifiable and from prominent third parties, the ones you support your argument with come from the very same people whose integrity is in question.

While the true state of DF project and the managing of Aventurine is unknown by all parties except the people in charge, the ultimate fate of Razorwax , managed by the same people, and the fact that they made gross misstatements by saying they merged are not. Regardless of whether you find it relevant or not, it is. It's the same people in charge. They've lied before, it's safer to assume they could lie again than to expect a change of heart.

I do hope the game releases with all its promised features as well, albeit for other, non-vindicative, reasons.

More importantly, do you still state that information that was previously unknown about past events that does not change generally or personally accepted views is old information?

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7264

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

7/13/08 11:30:19 PM#60

"The point is neither do you, so you can't stand on a moral or factual high ground and discount Polarization's assumptions, based on verifiable empirical evidence, because you prefer your own assumptions to that. We have not said it's impossible for everything they say to be true, we just disagree with you on how probable it is. I do not make or try to make anyone believe anything, but it does give us insight into the dealings of Aventurine, so you can form your own conclusions."

The only point I'm trying to prove in all this, is that you both could very well be wrong, and that neither of you has actual information on the current state of the project.  Vindicating (hopefully) all those DarkFall hopefulls that believe that theres something worth believing in.  I'm tired of hearing everyone rag on people saying they're ridiculous, stupid, ignorant, or foolish because they believe this game will one day come to fruition. 

Its fine if you don't believe something good will come of this game, and for the most part both of you allow for people to make their own decisions.  I also think that if you look hard enough into any single company you'll find enough bad in there to see exactly what you want to see.  You think SOE has a flawless record... or how about Funcom?  Maybe non-game companies like Sprint, Comcast, and Wal-Mart are absolute do-gooders. 

Excellent example of the begging the question logical fallacy. Nothing but faith backs up this belief, especially when there is illegal precedent involving these people.

Please, half this forum is a logical fallacy, in to call believing in darkfall to release as being one is ridiculous.  You take what information has already been given, even in the past 2 years, and disregard it, they take the information given from the previous 4 years and deny it, and somehow in the middle theres the actual truth of the whole project, and noone knows but the developers.  Its like me asking you how many apples I have in my hand, and all you have to go upon is a picture of my hand and an article with a picture of me holding 4 apples.  You'll never know how many I'm actually holding, but you can take a guess.

You take info A, they take info B, and the battle rages on. 

lastly. I do hope the game releases with all its promised features as well, albeit for other, non-vindicative, reasons.

I just think its funny to what extent people go sometimes to make things look in a certain light. I do want the game to launch, and even do well, of course I'm not holding my breath. The only reason I've been keeping up with this thread is because I like the argument, and I dislike all the naysayers that try to make others feel bad because they believe in something that may very well be worth believing in.  I find it funny that polar bowed out.  An intricate explanation of what exactly his beliefs were may have helped, but his complete disregard of my arguments (which are tough to argue about in the first place) makes me wonder how strong his convictions really are.  As for your last and final question, I've given my answer in an earlier reply.

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


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