Yeah basically were getting 2/3 of the game gutted, classes removed, and now only two cities to fight/defend for. As much as i hate to admit it i was willing to buy into the hype of WAR but now i see it was just that hype. I was looking foward to starting something new, something to beat the medocrity that has befallen WoW. Do they seriously expect you to shell out cash for something that they keep cutting and scalling back just because there being honest about it doesnt make it ok.Btw i did cancel my preordered CE because you took out my Choppa, really a melee dps class how do you fubar that?

Had high hopes for this.... had.

Is this Mythic or Sony ?

Pre-order status : CANCELLED.

I just want to point out that customers are a varied bunch. Some are pickier than others. We all have different standards that we require to be met, before we shell out cash for a product. I think it is unfair to attack those that would rather delay or not play the game, since the game itself has been scaled back quite a bit from originally expected. Our opinions are just as valid as is our feelings on the matter. Calling us whiners and everything else underneath the sun doesn't help out your case any, especially when we all share the fact that we want a quality product, in common.

With that said, yes we want a company to be honest, which Mythic did. Yes, we want a quality product. Yes, we want a fun product.

However, we also want a complete product. Complete in every sense of the word. Complete as in maintaining IP integrity. Complete, as in not cutting out cities and classes, rather than delaying the game.

There is a difference between starting when the game is released and starting a year later or more. The economies are inflated by that time, content has been explored several times over and is harder to find groups for it, and stereotypes and roles being pigeon holed have already been formed. Nothing is really new after a year or more and it leaves those starting late in an endless pursuit to catch up to everyone else. So everyone saying "just wait a year and then buy the game, instead of asking for a delay" is missing the major benefit for us to delay the game; which is getting a even start with the rest of the community.

I'm a big Mythic fan and a long, and I mean long, time DAoC player. So I am not talking out of my rear or anything like that. I also gain nothing by putting off buying WAR, but it is something I have decided to do, in spite of the fact that I love Mythic and support their products. WAR just isn't shaping up to be what we were all prepared to play for the past 4 years. It is something much less now. The fact of the matter is that the classes and cities will take a lot of time to be released once the servers go live, because regular bug fixes and patches will be competing for development time for the remaining cities and classes. More than likely, the cities and classes would be released in an expansion a year from the release date.

  Well this game was awful enough, i played it. Now it is being cannibalised, excellent.  WoW killer ? This won't even kill AoC,

The thing is, Capitol Cities are going to be used mostly for end-game content. There are a lot of posts saying this messes up the storylines and such, but I'm in beta and I don't think it's all that pivotal to have 6 capitol cities at launch. Your character does not start his/her life in the city (this is from an interview i believe), they start it in an area designated for your race. So ya, 4 races missing their capitol cities at launch definently sucks, but it is not game breaking and does not require that much change...atleast when in concerns to early quests/storyline.

Saying they are gutting 2/3 of the game content is complete and utter ignorance.

Originally posted by viciousexe

Look at these interent geniuses! A company screws up a large part of their game and just because they honestly tell you they did it, its all good in the hood!

So if someone was about to stab you with an ice pick, but six months before they did they warned you, wouldn't you still be a little pissed off?

Lets say little old ViciousEXE here wants to be an empire tank character. I'm not into greenskins or whatever the heck the white lion thing is or Dwarfs and I know everybody and their brother is gonna be chaos. So what am I to do? I can't wear my damn heavy armor and swing my virtual broadsword around now can I?

Doesn't it stand to reason that in this day and age in an mmo every race can have a tank class that wears heavy armor? I mean if anything don't give one to the orcs or the dark elves, races that have a combat doctrine that lends itself less to heavy armor, but Empire! Cmon! Where talking big mean german inspired knights here!

People who are sad about the changes to the game are not crying or b@tching, we are the ones who wanted to play this game and are mortified that this happened. If I just hated this game and never wanted to play it, would I be here, braving the innards of the cesspool of the internet, the mmorpg.com boards?

To the first point.  They have not screwed up a large part of their game.  They've done just the opposite and chosen not to release what you would term to be "the screwed up part," of their game.  Things are not "all good in the hood;" however, the point most are trying to make is that Mythic is one of the few companies that would actually come forward and state outright that they feel the product is incomplete as opposed to releasing it anyway and painting some grand picture like other MMO's have done. (AoC, Vanguard, etc)

The fact that you can now take the time and decide (with this new information) whether or not you want to purchase the game should be reason enough to thank Mythic.  They had to realize they would lose customers over this but apparently the integrity of their product and the concern for their customers outweighed the EA lash.

To the second point.  No, I wouldn't be pissed.  If someone tells me 6 months in advance that they plan to do any bodily harm to me and I'm dumb enough not to prepare (i.e. starte toting a bit of steel that slings hot firah) then I deserve it - pissed or no.  Summary: epic fail of an analogy.

Missed the mark on the rest or your post and have no real response.

What I think is that they talk way too much about the game announcing stuff very soon.

They should tease.. ok that's fine but explaining stuff in detail and then cutting some off. Not really hot for PR.

So if they could lay low and stop bragging about what they are pulling out and just do it we wouldnt have deceptions or peoples frustrated.

Also when you make big announcement like they called.. you should bring in  good news too.. everyone knows that. And we didn't get any.

So to resume: Stop talking about what you're doing in this game and just do it. And then, when you are ready, tell us when you will release the game/OB. All I need.

Stop the uneven teasing.

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

I just want to point out that customers are a varied bunch. Some are pickier than others. We all have different standards that we require to be met, before we shell out cash for a product. I think it is unfair to attack those that would rather delay or not play the game, since the game itself has been scaled back quite a bit from originally expected. Our opinions are just as valid as is our feelings on the matter. Calling us whiners and everything else underneath the sun doesn't help out your case any, especially when we all share the fact that we want a quality product, in common.

With that said, yes we want a company to be honest, which Mythic did. Yes, we want a quality product. Yes, we want a fun product.

However, we also want a complete product. Complete in every sense of the word. Complete as in maintaining IP integrity. Complete, as in not cutting out cities and classes, rather than delaying the game.

There is a difference between starting when the game is released and starting a year later or more. The economies are inflated by that time, content has been explored several times over and is harder to find groups for it, and stereotypes and roles being pigeon holed have already been formed. Nothing is really new after a year or more and it leaves those starting late in an endless pursuit to catch up to everyone else. So everyone saying "just wait a year and then buy the game, instead of asking for a delay" is missing the major benefit for us to delay the game; which is getting a even start with the rest of the community.

I'm a big Mythic fan and a long, and I mean long, time DAoC player. So I am not talking out of my rear or anything like that. I also gain nothing by putting off buying WAR, but it is something I have decided to do, in spite of the fact that I love Mythic and support their products. WAR just isn't shaping up to be what we were all prepared to play for the past 4 years. It is something much less now. The fact of the matter is that the classes and cities will take a lot of time to be released once the servers go live, because regular bug fixes and patches will be competing for development time for the remaining cities and classes. More than likely, the cities and classes would be released in an expansion a year from the release date.

While I respect your opinion, I do not agree with it, especially when it has already been stated, by Mark, that if the problems with these classes and cities could have been fixed simply by taking a bit more time then that is what they would have done.

Having developed a small text based RPG for a graphics calculator in high school I had big plans for it at the start, even throughout the initial development those plans where still in place, but things happened that I had not counted on, mainly running out of memory and not being able to come up with a way to code what I wanted given the calculators limited language, so I had to make some changes, but it still turned out pretty good in the end and was quite popular with some of the other guys in my year level, even spawning a few mods... point is, sometimes things just don't work the way you thought they would and the amount of time and money it would take to make them 'complete' just isn't worth it, especially when you doubt that those things could ever work or that they would even be any better than the alternative solution you came up with.

So, yes it sucks that there will only be 20 classes instead of 24, and there will only be 2 siege-able cities instead of 6, but that does not mean WAR will be much if any worse off as a game because of it and that simply taking more time would 'fix' everything.

NB. I say "much if any worse off" because it has also been stated, by Mark, that if the changes they have made (read: cutting 4 classes and cities) does not work (read: ruins the game) then it will be delayed while they find a way to fix it. To quote Mark "I've always said that this game will ship when it's great, I've never said it will only ship if it has 24 classes, 6 cities, 5210 quests, etc. Nothing has changed about that. If the game is great and ready to be launched, it will be launched. If it isn't, it will be held back."

Information obtained from: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43941

Edit: Changed the quote to the one I was originally looking for but couldn't find till I stopped looking...

Edit: Everyone should also check out > http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44469 < if they haven't yet, it will clear a lot of things up for people as there is a lot of miss information flying about here.

I only got intrested in this game 2 weeks ago.

I dont care what they did. It makes the whole story invalid. But meh.

I get the feeling that they dont like their fanbase very much. Because they complain alot

I'd still try it if they had a free trial.

ITS GONNA BE AWESOME. EVERYTHINGS AWESOME. OH YEAH.

Keep in mind this is EA-Mythic and not Mythic-EA. So this is not surprising news imo.

This bit of news is a huge turn off to WAR. After the debacle AoC was WAR was my final hope for a new MMORPG.

Looks like EA is already screwing things up.

Originally posted by SajT
The Warhammer world is excellent material for an MMO, easily comparable to the Warcraft one (IMO better). The world suits an RvR game perfectly and I think that proper RvR is just what the MMO scene needs. However, JUST TWO MEASLY FACTIONS? That's no more RvR than WoW, which is bad, very bad. This decision absolutely murders the lore aswell. If it weren't for guild PvP this game would have nothing on WoW in terms of PvP. Or are you telling me that laying siege to the same city over and over again will be much different than AV?

Oh wow don t get me started on how wrong this is. WOW pvp and WARs are not remotely close to the same. Play beta and you ll know what i m saying.

Originally posted by SajT
Well then please do enlighten me, from what I've read and seen it basically is the same grind = reward system as WoW has but in a different package. If there are only 2 factions, how is the PvP any different from WoW's? Are there even any proper deathpenalties in WAR?

No so you must scurry along right now. WAR is a game. It's meant to be fun, it's not meant to weigh you down with harsh death penalties that don't help you get right back in the fight. So for the hardcore more FFA-type players, this IS NOT your game. This is about two sides duking it out, true enough, but in way more ways than WoW.

First: WAR encourages open-field PvP combat. WoW? It's pointless and half the time you just get twenty Horde that gank and spawn camp you.

Second: WAR has the instanced side of it, comparable to WoW's BGs, but THIRTY. Compared to FOUR. Just a little more variety there so we all won't be grinding two or three eh?

Third: PvE contributes to RvR. This obviously isn't tied into direct PvP but the PvP is part of the RvR system so the PvE is too.

Fourth: Open world Keep sieging and guild possession of keeps. WoTLK will make a pathetic attempt to copy other games by adding this in the expansion.

All I can think of for now I'm tired hehe.

No so you must scurry along right now. WAR is a game. It's meant to be fun, it's not meant to weigh you down with harsh death penalties that don't help you get right back in the fight. So for the hardcore more FFA-type players, this IS NOT your game. This is about two sides duking it out, true enough, but in way more ways than WoW.

First: WAR encourages open-field PvP combat. WoW? It's pointless and half the time you just get twenty Horde that gank and spawn camp you.

Second: WAR has the instanced side of it, comparable to WoW's BGs, but THIRTY. Compared to FOUR. Just a little more variety there so we all won't be grinding two or three eh?

Third: PvE contributes to RvR. This obviously isn't tied into direct PvP but the PvP is part of the RvR system so the PvE is too.

Fourth: Open world Keep sieging and guild possession of keeps. WoTLK will make a pathetic attempt to copy other games by adding this in the expansion.

All I can think of for now I'm tired hehe.

1) I don't see how it's true "world PvP" if zones are divided into PvP and non-PvP zones. But it's a little step up from WoW.. (sorry for using WoW as a benchmark btw)

2) Thirty is impressive, however I don't really see the need for 30 PvP instances. So yes, WAR would have alot more variety when it comes to instanced PvP. However it does not have an Arena system. Although the level of skill required in WoW to PvP is borderlining zero it's still nice to have a competative PvP system.

3) That's nice, but I personally couldn't care less what benefits some PvEing chaos players get when I'm PvPing with my shaman. It helps to unite the factions but that's it pretty much...

4) That's the key thing, Guild PvP with actual keeps. That's one of the things that make WAR look like a promising PvP title. But other than that I'm less than amazed.

- As for death penalties they add excitement to PvP, if you've got nothing to loose it makes it much less thrilling. If you had ever played EVE you'd know that. But ye, in instanced PvP it'd be pretty pointless with PvP penalties.

- Oh and thanks for the kind answer!

Originally posted by SajT
Well then please do enlighten me, from what I've read and seen it basically is the same grind = reward system as WoW has but in a different package. If there are only 2 factions, how is the PvP any different from WoW's? Are there even any proper deathpenalties in WAR?

What ascension said. Also if you go look at the million post out there that has stated how different they are you would nt ask such a silly question. Anything else that Ascension hasn t said i can t say due to a little thing called a NDA. Please stop with the WOW and WAR comparisons especially the pvp. Once again i ll say there not even remotely close to the same, go do some research.

Originally posted by Leucent

What ascension said. Also if you go look at the million post out there that has stated how different they are you would nt ask such a silly question. Anything else that Ascension hasn t said i can t say due to a little thing called a NDA. Please stop with the WOW and WAR comparisons especially the pvp. Once again i ll say there not even remotely close to the same, go do some research.

Ah, touché my good sir, if you so happened to be aiming for your ass.

It's true that I could do a search around these boards which mostly consist of two things, namely rubbish posts and fucktards like yourself. Quite frankly, people like your's truly prefer just to ask a provocative question for a fast answer than to stand waist-deep in shit looking for a remotely intelligent response that can be of any use.

As for the NDA I'm sure that no person would ever have the AUDACITY to break it. I mean, last time I checked Mythic was working together with Batman to punish those who let their lips slip (guess what happened that Ledger fellow,  I ain't joking and so ain't Heith no more). Because MY GOD LAD, just think of the consequences if someone did? You know, the four horsemen and all that.. yatta yatta..

As for the comparison of  WoW and WAR I think WoW makes an absolutely perfect benchmark to judge other MMO's by. But hey, if you want to be oldskool 'n kool with the kids I can always use something older like DAoC, EQ, Ultima or why don't we just compare it to MUDs (I'd recommend MUME, it's a great one and it's still running)? Heck, suddenly WAR don't look so bad anymore, it's actually got graphics!

- Or are you implying that WoW's PvP can't be compared with WAR's because it has more PvP instances and the option for guild siege warfare? The syngergy between PvP and PvE isn't exactly fresh, even WoW did something like it when they introduced Ahn'Qiraj. Oh and Guild PvP is a pretty fair tradeoff for Arena...

EDIT: Mweh, why do I even bother.. . As a zombie would've put it,  waste of perfectly good brainz.