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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: Mark Jacobs Interview Part Two

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242 posts found
  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2156

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

7/11/08 6:47:41 PM#121
Originally posted by Sortran
Originally posted by Draccan
Originally posted by Sortran

Though this news is sad, I tend to think that they cities were not up to what they wanted, and may be same way for the players. As for the class cuts these will hurt as alot of people wanted to play those 4 classes. One thing for certain that i am glad to see, is Mythic dumping EA. EA has done very little in terms of being a good publisher and their methods tend to annoy alot of gamers due to the fact they force companies to put products out for a quick buck.

I think that mythic will add the cities and lost classes down the road when they believe they have them ready, and I know most of the players will miss both cities and classes until that time. Maybe, just maybe we will get a quality product instead of a shoddy crappy MMO which seems to be the main drive these days.

 

Where have we heard all this before... "oh it will not make launch, but will be added later"

I am so sick off mmos today!

 


Unfortunately that is all too true Draccan, I myself would like to see them add the removed content but only time will tell on that.


 

I think MMO devs need to stop letting us in on the creative process of game development. Of course ideas are going to be ammended, augmented or eliminated in this type of a massive project. If they just kept their big mouths shut, we would never have even known these classes and cities would have even existed.

We've been conditioned to believe that when a business puts something out there for the public, it has already gone thru the creative process and has been set in stone. Until mmo's, this was pretty true. But mmo's have developed a new marketing tactic that gives us a window into the process from A to Z.

I think that marketing strategy has failed epically. Considering VG, AoC and now Warhammer, they  have and will all feel the huge negative impacts from this innovative, yet disfunctional advertising plan.

I say the development period should practice silence. Then 1 week or maybe 2 before launch, tell us about the game features. We would have no clue about ideas that ended up on the cutting room floor and be a lot happier with our lollipop.

In this way, you wouldn't create a population of people attached to a feature that for whatever reason, doesn't make it into the game.

The only other option would be to educate the entire mmo game population about the nature of give and take on a huge multimillion dollar project spanning years. But somehow, I doubt a certain segment would ever understand.

  Erolis

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 57

7/11/08 6:53:18 PM#122

Unfortunately this seems to be the norm in today's network centric software delivery system. Write incomplete code today for an update on Tuesday. While none of us will REALLY know what went on behind the scenes. EA/Mythic announced this today knowing full well they will loose a percentage of their potential customer base to WoW or Lotro. While I personally would not have played this game ever. It's par for the course on most online game development these days to over promise and under deliver. AoC has really made alot of people hesitant to put down any money for a new mmo. They have single handedly damaged any launch with a hint of not delivering on what was promised, and Mythic just said they would cut a large section of the core game out. I would not want to be in that office today.

The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison

  mecher

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/15/05
Posts: 76

7/11/08 6:53:36 PM#123
Originally posted by Zorgo

 

I think MMO devs need to stop letting us in on the creative process of game development. Of course ideas are going to be ammended, augmented or eliminated in this type of a massive project. If they just kept their big mouths shut, we would never have even known these classes and cities would have even existed.

I say the development period should practice silence. Then 1 week or maybe 2 before launch, tell us about the game features. We would have no clue about ideas that ended up on the cutting room floor and be a lot happier with our lollipop.

In this way, you wouldn't create a population of people attached to a feature that for whatever reason, doesn't make it into the game.

The only other option would be to educate the entire mmo game population about the nature of give and take on a huge multimillion dollar project spanning years. But somehow, I doubt a certain segment would ever understand.


 

Lol....... That would never work. It's not just the mmo game populations that needs some educations it's all of modern society. Whinning has become the complete norm. So pretty much being a wuss is promated and being a real man is hugely frown on. I take being a actual MAN then to fitting with the fags I mean cool people.

I say this is good. Less whiners at launch to deal with.

 

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6456

7/11/08 7:03:29 PM#124

18 classes, really how many games start with 18 classes?  You are extremely lucky you are getting that many. 

I am just amazed at all the thoughtless whiners on this thread.  If you can't find a class you like in one of those 18 you have issues, namely you should not be playing a MMO.

  URMAKER

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/19/05
Posts: 648

7/11/08 7:21:01 PM#125

gah i had my heart set on being an orc choppa

  User Deleted
7/11/08 7:25:34 PM#126

I cant believe this lol, I have waited so long for this game.

Set back after set back, year after year.

And now they are going to do something like this? This is just terrible, sorry mythic but im cancelling my pre-order.

But on the otherhand I could buy the game and play my most wanted class "chosen" but im sorry, im not going to buy Warhammer online until the game comes with all the features/classes/towns. Next thing we know, right before release. "we are sorry but we had to take tradeskills out because they just wasn't good enough". bla bla bla.

I remember mark jacobs saying "we are not going to release the game until we think its ready" umm ok Im not seeing this here anywhere.... obivously if they are leaving out 4 classes and 4 out of the 6! towns. THE GAME IS NOT FINISHED.

I just wouldn't ever believe mythic would do something like this! I could have seen it before EA bought them out but now that they have one of the biggest gaming companies backing them up, this is rediculous.

 

  damicatz

Novice Member

Joined: 7/04/05
Posts: 103

7/11/08 7:32:49 PM#127

Punkbuster is little more than invasive malware.

It indiscriminantly scans your memory and reports data back to punkbuster servers.  It's worse than the warden.

It's also very easy to work around.  And it's also very easy to exploit and make other people trip the system (false positive).  All you have to do is post a string that would normally be found in a known cheating program, be it on a website or IRC or chat and it will think you are trying to cheat.  Even balance's solution?  Don't run other programs at the same time as a Punkbuster enabled game.

Completely unacceptable.

  TheSheikh

Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/08
Posts: 818

McCain
Palin
2008

7/11/08 8:31:55 PM#128
Originally posted by Ozmodan

18 classes, really how many games start with 18 classes?  You are extremely lucky you are getting that many. 

I am just amazed at all the thoughtless whiners on this thread.  If you can't find a class you like in one of those 18 you have issues, namely you should not be playing a MMO.


20 classes actually

STOP WHINING!

  Hathi

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 236

We have nothing to fear but fear itself - and Chuck Norris.

7/11/08 8:49:30 PM#129

I am sad. Very sad.

For those saying that the 18 or so classes is adequate for any MMO standard.. This is WAR. It is not some cookie cutter MMO.  The IP is very very rich to draw from. I thought they were going to be faithful to the IP? We all can understand the tweaks to the IP like Zealots and Disciples of Khaine for game balance in MMOs.  They can't make the tanks and dps melee classes fun?

Did they ask Games Workshop how they made these units fun for their games?

Well i suspect they will be spending precious work hours explaining to us of their decision and how these changes will be retooled and rebalanced. 

Lets make the game GREAT by having an Ironbreaker, Witchunter, Bright wizard and Archmage against a Witch Elf, Black Orc, Squig herder and Zealot.  Less classes= better if they are really great.

Finally - Best site for Chuck Norris
http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/

  banthis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/07
Posts: 1914

7/11/08 8:59:02 PM#130
Originally posted by KnightTrue

"Takes more than 200 people to siege the city its is not a guild event.  So nice try at the trolling lol. "

                                                                                                                       -Banthis the nonfactor

 

 

Yeah thats what they said about WoW till hardcore pvp guilds locked down Ogrimmar and Ironforge, gtfo and diaf, you know nothing about MMORPGs.  I could take 50 of my guys and lock one of these lame cities down with 400 newbies trying to get back in., Warhammer isn't going to have the same sever pop as WoW, so it'll be that much easier.  The level cap of 40 will be hit within 2 days by exploit usage, always happens.

 

WAR devs were supposedly working on this game a long time, producing all these retarded podcasts and videos when they should have been working on content for the game.  It was bad enough they had to redo the graphics because they got so out of date, but removing 4 cities and 4 classes?! I mean how hard is it to make a mirror class with some cool looking tactics that differentiate it from its counterpart?! Good luck trying to add 4 classes and balance them later on down the line, talk about a challenge.  This is an obviously stupid move to anyone who has worked in the game development industry.  No thanks Mythic, take this BS Spin and write a blog, if they really believe people think taking out this much content is going to make the game better, they don't deserve my money nor anyone looking for a solid pvp MMORPG.  This game isn't ready for a sept launch.  Get ready for your first $30 expansion pack with maybe 2 classes, then another $30 expansion with 2 more classes after that.  Funcom promised alot and also didn't deliver with AOC, hence their subscriber base being down to like 70k now out of the estimated 700k pre-orders all because they didn't have the content ready they said they would.

 

Hear that sound?... Its the sound of thousands of WOTLK being pre-ordered because people know WAR isn't shaping up to be what they thought.


 

Funny I played WoW for 2 years and never saw this happen..infact guards usually wiped out most people before they could do much damage.  I think You might want to Stop Trolling at this point.    WoW was never even designed as a PvP game and it certaintly wasnt' designed for City Sieges its completely possible a large guild COULD lock a city down if there was any reason to other than annoying.    WAR on the other hand IS design specifically for City Sieging 200 people can't hold down an Entire Teir, a Keep, and storm the Gates at the same time.

  acidblood

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 225

7/11/08 9:04:11 PM#131

I too was looking forward to some good news when I got up this morning, but alas it is not to be. Still, it's not all bad as I wasn't really looking to play any of the classes they cut, probably because there wasn't / isn't much info on them and a lot of the other class sound really cool / interesting / fun to play.

I was really looking forward to exploring all the capital cities though, so I'm bit disappointed about that. At least on the plus side Altdorf and Inevitable will be even better than they otherwise would have been.

I guess my main concern is what the removal of those four classes will do to the overall distribution of players among the archetypes. Are we going to see less tanks and melee DPS overall, or will the up till now Choppa, Blackguard, Hammerer, and KotBS players simply choose to play the other Tank / Melee DPS class of that faction? I guess only time (and maybe some polls) will tell.

Also, KnightTrue, you owe me $478; 1 braincell = $1. Seriously, do you even know ANYTHING about WAR, or game development? Wait, don't answer that, I already know the answer is a resounding NO.

  SagaBoy

Novice Member

Joined: 9/03/06
Posts: 83

It's pointless to listen to someone who will not listen to you

7/11/08 9:22:16 PM#132

OMG - *re-reads article*

OMG guys, WTF!!!  Do I see actual honesty and realistic goals being used in relation to an upcoming launch?!!?!  I can't believe this.  A company just came out and told me the truth.  I'm actually still in shock from reading it.  I mean the very thought of being told the truth has me just...just...stunned.

This actually makes me want to buy the game more.  Is that odd?  I mean here we have a company that has pushed and pushed back the launch date for the sake of what I thought to be quality.  And then just when I think the extensions are superficial and not truly needed (i.e. to polish off insignificant CE extras), they drop this bombshell of an interview and actually admit that some major concepts of the game simply aren't finished.  KUDOS to you Mythic...KUDOS indeed!

To those of you who are unhappy with the announcement I simply pose the question - what would you do?  You have a product with potential.  You know how important launch is.  Do you do like every other game we b*tch and moan about, and go ahead with the launch revealing piss poor, half @ssed, unfinished main line concepts OR do you admit that reality beat fantasy with a stick; as it relates to game production, and it won't be ready?

I see the problem with doing this from reading some of the responses.  Mythic really is damned if the do or damned if they don't.  If they go ahead with the release of poorly polished cities and "not great" classes then the masses will complain.  If they withhold the classes and cities in an attempt to polish them, then the masses complain about that.  Just seems like a giant Mexican stand-off and Mythic is the only gun-slinger without a gun.

The ONLY question I'd have, would be if there is a time line AFTER launch for these cut back features/classes/cities to be implemented.  If they slap that "indefinite" amount of time tag on the previously mentioned components THEN I could see myself getting angry, but for now I'm quite satisfied with the move.  Again, KUDOS MYTHIC!

  Fallenoneusn

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/04
Posts: 7

7/11/08 9:47:00 PM#133

I am just glad  a company had some honesty and told us what was going right and what was going wrong, and they had the balls to make a tough decision they KNEW would get flamed. Regardless I am going to buy it, Mythic is awesome and as an avid Warhammer Fantasy/40K enthusiast all I have to say is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!

  Falcon4196

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/02/08
Posts: 106

7/11/08 10:48:45 PM#134

Kudos to Mark and Mythic for the honesty.  I am sad to hear about every thing that has been cut though.  I'm worried about what effect the lack of cities will have on the non-Empire/Chaos areas.   I know that the cites will be put in eventually so I'm not too worried though.  As for the classes I'm torn about what this really means.  On one hand to does signal that Mythic is commited  to ensuring the best possible quiality for every aspect of the game.  Om the other hand removing four classes froma a game after they have been annouced can't be good from a PR standpoint.  The alreadt determined WAR haters will be ceamented in their opinions and a few people on the edge might be driven off.  The only thing Mythic can know is assure that the game is a hit.  A strong launch with good reviews will help bring people  back into the fold.

On the brighter side of things the fact that Mythic is making this cuts provide fairly strong evidence that they have locked in on the September release.


Games I've Played: WoW, FFXI, SWG, CoH, EVE Online
Games I'm Waiting for: WAR, Stargate Worlds

  viciousexe

Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 123

I stared into the smile of death

7/11/08 10:54:17 PM#135

well mythic you lost me. My favorite class is gone. I'm glad i didnt waste 80$ on a pre order.

  Durthu

Novice Member

Joined: 8/04/06
Posts: 29

7/11/08 11:18:11 PM#136

Wow... look at all the babies complaining.  If the game launched with incomplete classes/cities, these same babies would be complaining about balancing classes and unfished content and saying they should have waited longer instead of launching on time.  I applaud the honesty of the developer and they are very focused on quality control.  I think this is the right mentality to develop a mmo and they will make the game and classes scalable so they can keep on adding finished content and classes as its ready for public play.  As for people complaining about punkbuster, I guess you'll have to stop downloading porn while playing your games... oh well.

I wasnt sure if I was actually going to play this game but now I think I will give it a shot.  Finally, some honesty and decisions being made.  They aren't promising the moon... they are promising something realistic.  Now to decide which class to play. 

 

  TheSheikh

Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/08
Posts: 818

McCain
Palin
2008

7/11/08 11:45:38 PM#137
Originally posted by Hathi

I am sad. Very sad.

For those saying that the 18 or so classes is adequate for any MMO standard.. This is WAR. It is not some cookie cutter MMO.  The IP is very very rich to draw from. I thought they were going to be faithful to the IP? We all can understand the tweaks to the IP like Zealots and Disciples of Khaine for game balance in MMOs.  They can't make the tanks and dps melee classes fun?

Did they ask Games Workshop how they made these units fun for their games?

Well i suspect they will be spending precious work hours explaining to us of their decision and how these changes will be retooled and rebalanced. 

Lets make the game GREAT by having an Ironbreaker, Witchunter, Bright wizard and Archmage against a Witch Elf, Black Orc, Squig herder and Zealot.  Less classes= better if they are really great.

I think one of the possible problems is that some of the postponed classes are using new mechanics that may have posed a tough design challenge. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a combination of the new mechanics paired with a difficulty to balance the class with those mechanics in place, was the reason for the lost ground as far as class development. (Atleast for two of the classes)

For example the Blackguard's new Hate mechanic.

STOP WHINING!

  Stuka1000

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/20/03
Posts: 772

7/11/08 11:47:48 PM#138
Originally posted by SagaBoy

OMG - *re-reads article*

OMG guys, WTF!!!  Do I see actual honesty and realistic goals being used in relation to an upcoming launch?!!?!  I can't believe this.  A company just came out and told me the truth.  I'm actually still in shock from reading it.  I mean the very thought of being told the truth has me just...just...stunned.

This actually makes me want to buy the game more.  Is that odd?  I mean here we have a company that has pushed and pushed back the launch date for the sake of what I thought to be quality.  And then just when I think the extensions are superficial and not truly needed (i.e. to polish off insignificant CE extras), they drop this bombshell of an interview and actually admit that some major concepts of the game simply aren't finished.  KUDOS to you Mythic...KUDOS indeed!

To those of you who are unhappy with the announcement I simply pose the question - what would you do?  You have a product with potential.  You know how important launch is.  Do you do like every other game we b*tch and moan about, and go ahead with the launch revealing piss poor, half @ssed, unfinished main line concepts OR do you admit that reality beat fantasy with a stick; as it relates to game production, and it won't be ready?

I see the problem with doing this from reading some of the responses.  Mythic really is damned if the do or damned if they don't.  If they go ahead with the release of poorly polished cities and "not great" classes then the masses will complain.  If they withhold the classes and cities in an attempt to polish them, then the masses complain about that.  Just seems like a giant Mexican stand-off and Mythic is the only gun-slinger without a gun.

The ONLY question I'd have, would be if there is a time line AFTER launch for these cut back features/classes/cities to be implemented.  If they slap that "indefinite" amount of time tag on the previously mentioned components THEN I could see myself getting angry, but for now I'm quite satisfied with the move.  Again, KUDOS MYTHIC!


 

QFT

This is why I love Mythic as a company.  just look at the difference between them and Funcom, it's a gaping chasm.  If Funcom had been making Warhammer and made these same decisions they would have been telling the community and the beta testers not to worry, the other stuff is being internaly tested, is fine and will be in at launch.  Then lo and behold come launch it would all be missing, which is exactly what they have done with Aoc.  My hat is off to Mythic for their honesty and integrity, good job guys, I always thought that War would be a great game and now I'm even more sure of it.

  JK-Kanosi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/06
Posts: 1359

7/12/08 12:11:38 AM#139

130 something replies already and I am still going to add my two sense to this, even though no one will probably read it.

I am a big Mythic fan, which is why I was going to try out Warhammer. I never played Warhammer before and never really got into it.

I am very dissatisfied that they are taking the captical cities away, except two. They seem to be very insensitive to the fact that some of us get into our characters, RP or not and prefer to stick with our own races cities. A lot of us could care less what in game benefits we get if they are directly lore related and make sense for us to get.

Taking away classes is displeasing as well. Again, you are taking things away that you said would make it at launch.

After Vanguard, AoC, and etc. you never want to release something you said would make it out on release. So it is good that they are letting us know these things won't make it. It is also good they are doing what they have to in order to get things right.

With release right around the corner, how do they really expect to get things "fabulous" in just 3 short months when they were having so much problems with the game, they needed to cut 4 cities and 4 classes?

No matter if this is a good decision or not, it will leave a bad taste in peoples mouths. It just shows a general disrespect for people who get into the lore of the game and require things to be the way they should be. It is the burden of taking on an IP. You need to get these things right, because this game will also trigger the buying of Warhammer books and other games. If people see, and they will, that WAR doesn't stack up the way the rest of the IP material is, this game will get a lot of flack.

I think Mythic should delay this game until they can put all 6 cities in the game and the 4 classes they are taking out. I'm the consumer, so I don't care about their money problems and what not. Hire the talent you need  and get it done. You sold out to EA for god sake, you should have the money now to make this game work the way you intended by release. Hell, DAoC was a fantastic game and had many capital cities, races, and classes. Granted the graphics aren't as good as WAR's will be and the combat won't be as fluid, and WAR will have more featueres; but the point is that Mythic has created a complete game before and should do it again.

This sounds like a cop out to me and I honestly though I was going to see a "just joking" at the end or something.

I'm not sure I will be buying this game at release now. You know I'm not the only one thinking about not buying at release. Was it worth the guaranteed loss of release buyers? I guess time will tell.

MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW

Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.

  bachanam

Novice Member

Joined: 9/27/06
Posts: 338

True Love Never Dies

7/12/08 12:21:36 AM#140

like a ton of people said in the aoc forums, how many games are released with flaws, bugs, glitched, and missing content? all of them. The fanbois/trolls precious WAR is no different. Now 6 cities to 2, and dropping 4 classes *im guessing it wasnt as many as EQ2 to begin with* can't be a good thing, infact, I think it's fair to say that is a straight bad thing. However, games will be games, developers will make promises and break them, and players will still buy, play, complain, and quit games like clockwork.

If I were a WAR fan, I'd just hope they make the rest of the game incredibly amazing.

"Sometimes, things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. People are basically good. Honor, courage, virtue mean everything. Power and money, money and power mean nothing. Good always triumphs over evil. Love, True Love Never Dies."

Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?

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