Reward vs Reward.....

So you only kill one boss and your group disbands, eh well you still got an honor token.  Keep on chugging along and you'll get yours eventually because failure is not punished in WoW.   You're always accumulating something, whether it be rep, or honor tokens, or whatever.. you play you win.  This is the perfect model for people who have plenty of time on their hand and lack the skill to play in a system that punishes you for failure.

A casual gamer with skill would be better off playing in a true 'Risk vs Reward' system because they would get the most out of their time.  Sad that nobody can see that.

Risk just means the amount of real life time you waste for a reward.  Crafting like he said, takes an enormous amount of time to solo craft a spellstrike hood.  where as you can just run kara or some heroics and get equal gear at a badge vendor.  geez people use your f'ing brain.

Time is a risk?  Wait because you're a Chinese gold farmer, and time is money in gaming?  Its like saying that going to see a movie is a risk because you chance not being entertained.  If you didn't have time in excess, then you wouldn't be paying for entertainment that by design is going to take up a huge amount of your time.  But again, time is a risk here?  What is the payoff for not losing time in a big timesink?  More gear more quickly, so you can then *risk* time getting new gear to replace that gear, and then risk again.  Hahaha

I see a bunch of talk about rewards, but is there truthfully any probability for loss or negative impact?  You can't fail a craft in WoW, and aside from a lockout in some places, you can't fail a quest or instance in a way that negates any progress.  You might say repairs, but you still have the same level, gear, rep, and no potential to lose any of that.  Grouping gets you better rewards, but I can't find risk in any of it.. other than playing the time game with the loot tables while waiting for your item to drop week after week.  Risk? lol

Time vs. Gratification.. this is more like it.

The only risk to playing WoW is the real life opportunities you're missing everyday you spend time playing the game.  So yeah, I guess there is a lot of risk associated with playing WoW.. such as ending up one of the biggest losers on the face of the planet.

If your time was such a precious thing, then you wouldn't be wasting it in a game where all you get in the end is entertainment and lost time. 

peace. :p

the only thing u RISK on wow is your social life
your social life = 10 epic items or some like that . . . stop farming jeez

theres no risk versus reward in wow

Well nothing like a discussion with a bang.  I understand the "WoW haters", there is nothing really wrong with that.  Something that I think is very clear to everyone, even if its hard to utter the words; everybody who played and put their heart into Everquest (8 years here), will never experience another MMO in the same way. 

Everquest is a dead breed, a breed of game that catered for a very small percentage of - at the time - a hugely untapped genre of the gaming industry.  Blizzard tapped it, and tapped it hard.  Other game companies and publishers see how successful the genre can be, MMO's start popping up all over the place, trying to cater to as many players as possible.  Sony started it, Blizzard improved on it and now the shape of MMO's has changed forever.  If anything the response for this article proves this.  This is a discussion that has been beaten to death.

An interesting "Welcome back" to writing for mmorpg.com.  This would be my 5th or 6th article, I had to stop due to moving back to my home country.  I'm looking forward to many more discussions like this, its great reading, even if its not all positive and constructive, its still very strong opinions that keep the genre strong :)

Originally posted by DBridle

Well nothing like a discussion with a bang.  I understand the "WoW haters", there is nothing really wrong with that.  Something that I think is very clear to everyone, even if its hard to utter the words; everybody who played and put their heart into Everquest (8 years here), will never experience another MMO in the same way. 

Everquest is a dead breed, a breed of game that catered for a very small percentage of - at the time - a hugely untapped genre of the gaming industry.  Blizzard tapped it, and tapped it hard.  Other game companies and publishers see how successful the genre can be, MMO's start popping up all over the place, trying to cater to as many players as possible.  Sony started it, Blizzard improved on it and now the shape of MMO's has changed forever.  If anything the response for this article proves this.  This is a discussion that has been beaten to death.

An interesting "Welcome back" to writing for mmorpg.com.  This would be my 5th or 6th article, I had to stop due to moving back to my home country.  I'm looking forward to many more discussions like this, its great reading, even if its not all positive and constructive, its still very strong opinions that keep the genre strong :)

I think you are wrong in your assessment of why WoW is such a big success.   When you say Everquest is a dead breed, I assume you are implying that the difficulty level and harsh penalties, very little solo content aspects of that game are dead.  This is just not true.
 

In my opinion WoWs success has more to do with the fact anyone with p3 800 or better can run the game, and the fact that it actually looks really good for the low specs involved.  Also it has the smoothest gameplay of any game out there. 

So, accessibility is the most important reason. 

Quality is the 2nd most important. 

EZ mode for n00bs is probably a distant 3rd. 

And by no means is a difficult MMO that relys on group play and has harsher penalties something that can't be done well again and be a huge success.  They just need to fit the first 2 requirements.  There is a huge market out there.  And all anyone wants is a quality game they can actually play on their computer without replacing it. 

I submit this question to you, what other games, that have been released since WoW meet these requirements?  LOTRO is about it.  It's not like there has been any serious competition for WoW yet, and I believe, if someone did release a game that was as difficult as EQ1 with similar risk vs reward... if it had the same quality and accessibility as WoW (along with blizzards marketing campaign) it would be as successful or more successful than WoW is, especially if blizzard did it themselves!

"In my opinion WoWs success has more to do with the fact anyone with p3 800 or better can run the game, and the fact that it actually looks really good for the low specs involved."

Anyone can run EverQuest with the same specs and I don't see a ton of people when I log into EQ these days...

Originally posted by Slampig

"In my opinion WoWs success has more to do with the fact anyone with p3 800 or better can run the game, and the fact that it actually looks really good for the low specs involved."

 

Anyone can run EverQuest with the same specs and I don't see a ton of people when I log into EQ these days...

You aren't applying the 2nd part of my sentence to your comparison.  Not to mention how hard it would be for someone to just start playing EQ...  EQ is dead (to newcomers), but not the basic foundation of ideas that made it good (at first)

Ghettobooste - "I think you are wrong in your assessment of why WoW is such a big success.   When you say Everquest is a dead breed, I assume you are implying that the difficulty level and harsh penalties, very little solo content aspects of that game are dead.  This is just not true."

In no way was my article commenting on why wow is successful, it was merely looking into the risk/time vs reward system.

There has been no game since Everquest with the same strict risk vs reward system and unique feel that Everquest gave us, that is why I say its a dead breed, I just don't feel - or at least for moment - that we will ever get the kind of intense feeling that Everquest gave us in the early days.  MMO caters for an entirerly different audience, an audience that pays the bills.  It makes me sad as I invested a huge part of my life into Everquest and I keep wishing I will get something to fill the void around each corner.

Originally posted by DBridle

Ghettobooste - "I think you are wrong in your assessment of why WoW is such a big success.   When you say Everquest is a dead breed, I assume you are implying that the difficulty level and harsh penalties, very little solo content aspects of that game are dead.  This is just not true."

In no way was my article commenting on why wow is successful, it was merely looking into the risk/time vs reward system.

There has been no game since Everquest with the same strict risk vs reward system and unique feel that Everquest gave us, that is why I say its a dead breed, I just don't feel - or at least for moment - that we will ever get the kind of intense feeling that Everquest gave us in the early days.  MMO caters for an entirerly different audience, an audience that pays the bills.  It makes me sad as I invested a huge part of my life into Everquest and I keep wishing I will get something to fill the void around each corner.

 

With all that being said, even with the RIvsRE there is a fun factor that some of the players get. For example, myself even knowing that i go into an instance that will drop an item with a very low drop rate, i do it. Even if i know that the chance of the item dropping is low, i enjoy just doing the instance and making mistakes with them. Even if the time is waste knowingly i do it.

As i havnt play Everquest, i wouldnt know how the risk and reawrd is like but i have to say, comparing it to WoW is far different. How fun would it be to have created another MMO just like one in the pass. That isnt orginal, WoW puts a different feel into playing MMOs and it attacts a more aduience not just ones that have played Everquest. And even if you dont get that void feeled you shouldnt have you hopes up, you should look into geting a new persective of one games reward system.

Its always different with every game, you never know what to expect or when to for that matter. And sometimes you might not like the system at first but part of you needs to adapt into or move on with another game. Thats just how things are even if its the sad truth.

*Downs the last pint in a 6-pack of Anchor Porter*

Bah phuk allaya.  WoW may have trivial flaws here and there and everywhere but OVERALL it's still far more enjoyable than any 3 other mmogs combined.  Years after being in the open beta i still want to play the game and try new stuff.

so i played the game and well it was fun but what risk i mean come on there is no risk o no i have one more loss to pvp or o no i lost a item, it was fun meh ill look for better games where rewards come with real and rewarding risks

Not sure how long you played but the risk is time. There isnt much of a risk besides time, it takes tons of time to get an reward that you want. If your only halfway into WoW you wouldnt really understand as much of the endgame players would since all they do is look for rewards.

I am just sick of the game. I can sit here and say in how many ways I am sick of it.

But why........

Originally posted by Flummoxed

*Downs the last pint in a 6-pack of Anchor Porter*

Bah phuk allaya.  WoW may have trivial flaws here and there and everywhere but OVERALL it's still far more enjoyable than any 3 other mmogs combined.  Years after being in the open beta i still want to play the game and try new stuff.

What new stuff?

You're addicted...face it.