General Discussion

I may not exactly *hate* SOE, but IMHO you have to admit what they did was pretty unethical.

I'd bet there were many people who would have quit long before the NGE if it weren't for the promises that the problems would be fixed.  Instead, many of the systems they promised to fix were removed entirely.  SOE therefore collected the monthly fees of those people under false pretenses.

People often plan to play mmorpgs in the long term, and make their decisions on whether or not to play based on what they expect to get in the long term.  If you have, say, an insurance policy where the premiums go down the longer you're signed up, there would almost certainly be outrage if the company suddenly decided after a year, "Yeah, we said you'd get a discount after you've been a subscriber this long, but for no reason we decided not to give it to you".  Yes, the players of SWG did get to play for the months they paid, but in many cases they paid for those months thinking the game would get better in the future.

Technically, there may not be a breach of contract, which saves SOE from legal action.  However, it does not prevent players from feeling like SOE failed to keep up its end of the deal.  People therefore feel cheated, and that may be partly why you see so much anger.

SOE has made too many decisions that treated their customers poorly.

It is not the games they make it is their idea of good business that is the problem.

SOE = Bad Company.

When you find a company that treats it's customers with contempt it is important to warn others so that they don't waste their money too.

Are you able to understand the concept that I am describing to you?

Originally posted by Bronks

Originally posted by Semper9a

In principal the two things are the same.  You buy or pay for something, and your experience with the purchased item ends up leaving a bad taste in your mouth.  If you don't like the car analogy, feel free to use a cell phone, or a meal at a restaurant, the same principal applies.

 

So, you buy a game for $40 and it gets ruined 3 years later so you are mad because the game didn't give you your $40 worth...

 

You then buy a case of beer for $40 (I live in Canada - it's expensive to drink here) and find a dead bug in the bottom of a bottle so you never buy beer again?

 

your analogy is close. It would be more like buying a beer you like and drinking it for months. Then the beer company decides to change the recipe on your favorite beer, and it tastes like shit thereafter. So you dont buy it, and you dislike them for taking away the flavor of your favorite beer.

They destroyed EQ.

To the OP.

My understanding is that some people "dislike" SOE, and a few people (a very few to be honest) "Hate" SOE (using the definitiion you have stated).

Those who "hate" them have their own issues, which dont really effect this, but those who "dislike" them, tend to do so because SOE made (in the players eyes) some bad choices concerning a few games they made.

This may seem trivial to the casual viewer watching from the sidelines, but to someone who has spent 2 years, every day, most waking hours, investing time and energy (and in some cases - money) into they game, it goes beyond the ability to just "unplug and move on". It becomes a way of life, a way to interact with friends, a way to meet lovers, a way to be part of a bigger world that is better than the normal mundane 9-5 office job people have to do. It is an escape from the realities of life, and then, when a company makes a choice to change that life, in some cases without consulting the players, it has a strong effect on the life of the person concerned.

When these choices are game changing (in the case of the SWG NGE/CU) and the dedicated players start to see their friends, their family and their population leave the game in their hundreds, the result is a huge shock, upset, and stress. The life you have invested so much time into, has been taken away from you, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Now, would this have been an isolated incident, then, maybe, just maybe, that player would have forgiven those who made the choices and moved on eventually. But, when you then learn that this has happened before in other games, you quickly lose your faith in the company as a whole. And this then leads those effected to want to avoid any games made by that company, for (possibly the very real) fear that should they begin again, and reinvest time to a new "world" that it will happen again. And for alot of people, they could not take that feeling yet again.

THIS is why you end up with "I hate SOE" posts, and "I will never play another SOE game again" posts.

I hope this makes sense and explains how people feel for you.

Now.... on the flip side of that.... SOE is a company. It is the longest running MMO company in existance. With EverQuest 1 it created the entire 3d MMO genre as we see it today. Every game you play owes something to that original game, and to the man who came up with the idea - the most hated man in the MMO world, John Smedley. Which leads to an odd paradox! Without him and his "vision" there would be no 3d MMOs in the way you know them, and yet a large percentage of the MMO world hate him for his later choices. Tough call either way.

Plus, as SOE is the longest running, and most prolific MMO company in the World (Origin / UO aside as they were bought out by EA and never made anything else), they have managed to build the largest catalogue of games out there. And, in fairness, it is only some of these that have had these problems (EQ to some extent, Planetside and SWG), whereas others (VG, EQ2, PotBS) have gone from strength to strength, with one (MxO) being rescued from closure by the company. And with their 2 new games out soon (FreeRealms and the Agency) they are continuing to create new ideas and directions for the genre as a whole.

So, the end result of all of this, is that you have on one side those who have been hurt and offended by SOE, who will bear the scars of this betrayal for a long time and "hate" the company, then on the other side the ones hounded as "fanbois" who have had no problems with their games, enjoy what SOE have done and look forward to what they plan for the future.

Neither side will back down, as neither side can truely see the point of the others argument, and so the "debate" about this company will no doubt rage on for a long long time.

Where do I sit? I have been "hurt" by SOE, but then I have also had a blast in their other games, and I respect some of the choices they have made, whilst failing to see any reasoning for others. So, I am on the fence, but enjoying what they have done with VG and EQ2 quite alot.....

EQ:

-PoP was unfinished at release and the money from our sub was used to finish the expansion

-Bugs never got fixed ever.

-Servers crashed every day for a month +.................

-LoN introduced RMT in EQ even though everyone was against it

SWG:

-NGE

Vanguard:

-SoE kept charging people even after they cancelled, you had to call your bank to cancel account

EQ2:

-RMT

I'm sure a lot of people have had much worse experiences with SoE. I fucking loath them.

Originally posted by Bronks

I played SWG until the NGE and never looked back after cancelling. I had issues with the NGE but I moved on. Once I hit cancel I left it at that... I got even with SOE by not giving them my monthly subscription any longer. I have not been carrying the burden of that hate with me since I cancelled and I am just amazed that some will probably carry that hatred to the grave with them.

 

I am a peaceful person in the real world. I get angry when a deal turns bad or when my shipment is a month late but I don't sweat the small stuff... it all works itself out in the end.

 

Haters, ask yourself this and you will understand my thought process.

How did SOE affect you now?

How will it affect you in a week from now?

How will it affect you in a month or year from now?

How will it affect you in 10 years from now?

 

See the pattern? I am just trying to state that no matter what anger (or hatred if you truly feel it) has befallen you, time should heal all wounds. If you truly believe what SOE does today will affect you in 10 years then you should seek help because nothing should affect anyone negatively for that long a period.

 

 

   Muhahahaha Bronks,  SOE oversteps themselves with their customers time and time again - You must blame the cause not the affect.
 

Originally posted by Bronks

You hate-filled players have so much energy available to you that you can afford to spare some on hating a game company? SERIOUSLY?!?

Yes!....You know the game boxes in stores? When I see a SoE game I put a dent in the box or rip the box up a bit while passing through!

Seriously, I hate $oE, lol.

Bronks...If some dude punched ya in the face and you paid this dude $15 a month just to find out you keep getting punched in the face. How long does it take you to realize the face punching is not going to stop? Would you not hate that same asshole that punched you in the face and took your money on the account of "your experience". It is not as much hate as it is not wanting to support the bastards that destroyed your favorite MMO. SOE can go to hell, Sony in general can go to hell one of the many reasons I don't own a PS3.