*Please try and stick to the topic and try not to re-live old game company nightmares, unless it's part of an exsample, also No soap boxes please, thank you*

idk, but I use my own rules

If a game isn't RMT, it should never become RMT, no excuses.

As long as there's no full gameplay video's it's Vaporware.

I think a player union only helps if you create a site too, players themselves can't do anything unless you combine them and people actually go read the site and support it.

The sites you have now support MMO companies, like this one, you can't have a union run site that has MMO banners.

I think it will happen. Not only for MMO, players have the voice now. When was the last time you read a review? They're all biased imo. I only read player opinions to decide if I want to buy an MMO or not. I don't care about reviews if they're payed to make them since they're never objective.

Players got a voice thanks to the internet. But still things like AoC happen, so it means companies can still fool us.

Blizzard and NCsoft raised the standard very high on server support and bug free software. Thast why Funcom and SoE get so much crap when their games don't work out.

The shamefull thing is that players got fooled by Funcom imo. Not many knew this game was going to run so bad.

And darkfall, jesus christ what an insane hype machine. As long as you have sites and people supporting those, you will get companies get away with stuff like that.

Originally posted by Waterlily

idk, but I use my own rules

If a game isn't RMT, it should never become RMT, no excuses.

As long as there's no full gameplay video's it's Vaporware.

 

I think a player union only helps if you create a site too, players themselves can't do anything unless you combine them and people actually go read the site and support it.

The sites you have now support MMO companies, like this one, you can't have a union run site that has MMO banners.

I think it will happen. Not only for MMO, players have the voice now. When was the last time you read a review? They're all biased imo. I only read player opinions to decide if I want to buy an MMO or not. I don't care about reviews if they're payed to make them since they're never objective.

Players got a voice thanks to the internet. But still things like AoC happen, so it means companies can still fool us.

Blizzard and NCsoft raised the standard very high on server support and bug free software. Thast why Funcom and SoE get so much crap when their games don't work out.

The shamefull thing is that players got fooled by Funcom imo. Not many knew this game was going to run so bad.

And darkfall, jesus christ what an insane hype machine. As long as you have sites and people supporting those, you will get companies get away with stuff like that.

 

RMT, is real money trade. It's the trading of in game  items, (both superficial and stat items) for real money.

I think the idea of reviewing more on requirements and standards is good.

Is the game playable, does it run fine without much bugs? Is there RMT or not? Will there be expansions? How addictive is it really? Do you have to spend months of grinding to have fun?

Those are things you can really define and get an honest answer from.

If I take WoW, it would get a devent review just because it runs fine, it has no RMT but it is highly addictive but you can also have a lot of fun without having to grind a lot.

If people really like WoW personally didn't matter in this review. It just held up to the standards, and when people buy the game they are 100% sure it will run and it at least will deliver. If they like the gameplay or not is still up to them, but the game in itself is fine.

The reviews lately from 'gamer siter' are just opinionated and don't test if the game can run or if it has RMT, or if it's addictive or just plain fun.

I've thought about this sort of thing before too but there would be problems with it.
 

First, this sort of thing already exists on a small and fragmented scale.  Large, well established gaming guilds are sort of like special interest groups that developers pay attention to.  It really is bizzare that devs cow-tow to those people so much because they represent such a tiny fraction of all mmorpg players.  But they do.  They meet with the leaders of those guilds in person, they give them mass invites to beta tests, and worst of all they listen to their suggestions.  This is part of the reason why the genre has been stuck in such a rut since EQ 1.  So what I'm saying is that your union would have to compete with these already entrenched groups for the attention of the devs and gaming companies.

Second, you might think your union would have a louder voice because it would represent all mmorpg players.  But you know what we're like.  Everyone has their own opinions.  The moment the head of your union takes a stand on any issue there are going to be a bunch of people who disagree with him and the union will fragment.  But if the union never takes a stand on anything then it's worthless.

So what are you thinking exactly?  What is the union for and what is it against?  You would probably have better luck with it if you defined the positions you want to support right from the beginning.

Is it just about monitoring the quality of game preformance with no regard to preferences in game design?

Or is it going to take a position on game design?  For example: WE WANT SANDBOX GAMES or WE DON'T LIKE INSTANCING.

I think any sort of organization of this sort should clearly define it's purpse from the beginning.

One of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site=)  We already have a union.  Our wallets.  Don't like the games.  Don't buy them.  Don't play them.   If no one plays the games, they have to change them so that we do.    Blizzard actually asked questions, did lots of R&D and designed WOW according to US and what WE wanted.   Look at the results.  And by "US" I do not mean, elitist, hardcore, MMO gamers with attitude problems.  I meant normal people;)

Theres many other hobbies out there besides games you know=)

Originally posted by Josher

One of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site=)  We already have a union.  Our wallets.  Don't like the games.  Don't buy them.  Don't play them.   If no one plays the games, they have to change them so that we do.  

Theres many other hobbies out there besides games you know=)

Don't patronize the idea.

What do you think this is:

http://www.gamesforwindows.com

It's basically the same idea. It was founded because games need to become standardized in system requirements, quality and accesability.

Voting with your wallet doesn't really work when developers aren't honest and the game is bugged and doesn't meet the claimed system requirements, look at AoC.

a game players union is a very silly idea.

Don't buy their games. If enough people stop buying, they'll change. Problem solved.

I like this idea and I think Neanderthal rasied some very valid questions. Especially the part about defining the purpose of an organization like this.

Imo a GPU should stay away from discussions regarding suggestions on gameplay and instead focus on whether the game-companies promises are being seen to and how good their costumer support are.

Decision-making can easily be done by voting.

If this should go live I wan't to be the first to say: Gamers of all countries, unite!

I've thought of this as well, but it usually stops at just the initial thought due to one issue... I'm a gamer and I love all my fellow gamers, but when it comes to the arsenal a union uses to get the seriousness of a situation across to a corporate entity (i.e. striking), I don't see us having the empathy let alone the solidarity to care about another gamer's plight enough to not buy a game or continue to subscribe to a particular MMO as long as we're having fun. Glad someone actually thought it through - made for an interesting read.

Every single one of us already expesses our opinion with our wallets, I don't need someone elses opinion on what is or is not satisfactory to tell me which games I should support by spending money on them.

I have a G.P.U.  in my computer already. It has never saved me from a bad game yet.

Neanderthal, careful you sound like you know what your talking about, we might have to make you the union boss. :p

I totally agree with your post, the way I see it, it would be more like video games ombudsman crossed with a union, I don't see the union site being much of a drop in and hang out website, more for people with legit complaints where they come and get help or get information that has merit about a game and it's owners. I see the forums being run in a very strict facts only kind of way, I also see this union setting a range of standards and requirements that commercial game companies should hold to when releasing a new game, especially if they want the Game Player Union Approval sticker on there game box.

First, this sort of thing already exists on a small and fragmented scale.  Large, well established gaming guilds are sort of like special interest groups that developers pay attention to.  It really is bizarre that devs cow-tow to those people so much because they represent such a tiny fraction of all mmorpg players.  But they do.  They meet with the leaders of those guilds in person, they give them mass invites to beta tests, and worst of all they listen to their suggestions.  This is part of the reason why the genre has been stuck in such a rut since EQ 1.  So what I'm saying is that your union would have to compete with these already entrenched groups for the attention of the devs and gaming companies. - It would be nice to get these guilds on our side, but i think a lot of them are already in grained to there favorite companies and most likely won't change, I could be wrong thou.

Second, you might think your union would have a louder voice because it would represent all mmorpg players.  But you know what we're like.  Everyone has their own opinions.  The moment the head of your union takes a stand on any issue there are going to be a bunch of people who disagree with him and the union will fragment.  But if the union never takes a stand on anything then it's worthless. - this is a problem we would have to deal with when we have a union, as this is kinda normal running for a union, voting would be the answer with strong debates and arguments for and against,( remember the union forums will be very strict, facts only, no trolling or fanbiosim and yes with very heavy handed penalties to enforce it)

So what are you thinking exactly?  What is the union for and what is it against?  You would probably have better luck with it if you defined the positions you want to support right from the beginning.

Is it just about monitoring the quality of game preformance with no regard to preferences in game design?

Or is it going to take a position on game design?  For example: WE WANT SANDBOX GAMES or WE DON'T LIKE INSTANCING.

I think any sort of organization of this sort should clearly define it's purpse from the beginning.- this is why I started the thread, it's not up to one person to decide this, it should invole all of us to decide this, the only thing I could add here is the direction of the Game Players Union would have to remember that what ever purpose we choose to begin with, will over time change with the gaming industry as it to changes over the coming years.

Waterlily, - keep the idea's coming and please ignore the nay-sayers, they can have there say if they want.

Caldicot, Imo a GPU should stay away from discussions regarding suggestions on gameplay and instead focus on whether the game-companies promises are being seen to and how good their costumer support are. - good sugestion!

Jaix, -gotta have faith....well some at least.

*At this point I would also like to say that this idea for a Game Player Union should be set up and run by someone a lot more intelligent and knowledgeable than me, just a thought.

Originally posted by Zorvan

I have a G.P.U.  in my computer already. It has never saved me from a bad game yet.

sorry zorvan, wrong G.P.U. to make yours work you need to find a head of a game company,( that you don't like or who are mercilessly hunting you down to force you to sub again or didn't deliver on there promises) who is wandering around out in the open, then you need to remove the G.P.U. from your computer and while driving by, throw it at the back of there head, 10pts if you hit dead on and 5pts if you just clip an ear, good luck and don't miss, it can get expensive to keep trying.  :)

Yes an organization that could sue companies for lying to the players or abusing them is a great idea.

Originally posted by redcap036

Originally posted by Zorvan

I have a G.P.U.  in my computer already. It has never saved me from a bad game yet.

 

sorry zorvan, wrong G.P.U. to make yours work you need to find a head of a game company,( that you don't like or who are mercilessly hunting you down to force you to sub again or didn't deliver on there promises) who is wandering around out in the open, then you need to remove the G.P.U. from your computer and while driving by, throw it at the back of there head, 10pts if you hit dead on and 5pts if you just clip an ear, good luck and don't miss, it can get expensive to keep trying.  :)

You get a +10 for playing along. You are indeed a good man.

Originally posted by redcap036

Neanderthal, careful you sound like you know what your talking about, we might have to make you the union boss. :

But I'm too conscientious to find the prospect appealing.  If I did it I would feel obligated to remain unbiased and neutral even though in my heart I'm just as opinionated as anyone.  If I did it I would find the notion of taking advantage of the situation for personal gain to be abhorrant (bribes for good ratings).  So for me it would be a lot of thankless work.  Thus I have little interest in being put in that position.

And this brings up another issue.  People who seek out the limelight and positions of influence are generally interested more in personal agrandizement than anything else.  So good luck finding a honorable person who is willing to sacrifice his or her time and not take advantage of the position.

I really wouldn't do it.  Also I'm not really technically qualified anyway. 

Originally posted by Josher

One of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site=)  We already have a union.  Our wallets.  Don't like the games.  Don't buy them.  Don't play them.   If no one plays the games, they have to change them so that we do.    Blizzard actually asked questions, did lots of R&D and designed WOW according to US and what WE wanted.   Look at the results.  And by "US" I do not mean, elitist, hardcore, MMO gamers with attitude problems.  I meant normal people;)

Theres many other hobbies out there besides games you know=)

In a way I wish I didn't agree with the above, but actually it's entirely correct.

There is no need for a union and it would serve no purpose.  Sorry but it's true.  Sounds great and people will get all worked up about how good it sounds, but at the end of the day its irrelevant, because

-If a game is full of bugs DONT buy it.

-If a game company has terrible customer service CANCEL your subscription and tell your friends about how bad the game is and what it's faults are on forums and sites on the internet.

There is no need for a union because we are not working for the game companies THEY are providing a service to us.  A service which can be cancelled at anytime we wish.  The ONLY way to get through to companies that are performing badly is through their profits, and that means voting with your wallets and subscriptions.

Originally posted by redcap036

*Please note this is just a ruff idea.*

 

Maybe we all need a Game Players Union, think about it, companies such as Funcom, SoE and Turbine to just name a few have it all over us when it comes to our rights and what we should expect when we spend our money on their games.

I remember when buying a game and registering your purchase, use to mean that you had the right to complain and report bugs, these days we don't even have those rights anymore, it really has become,"Give us your money, sit down shut up and play, you got anything nice to say, put it in the forum, got anything bad or anything else to say then shut up or go away or be banned or expelled."

Add to this the false advertising, hyping and incompleteness of games upon release, then there is the false promises of great or greater things to come.

Add on top of all this the duel company faces of," Hi, your a valued customer and a possible illegal copyright breaching and Eula breaking game pirate who is selling gold and trolling our forums to make mischief at the company,( sorry we mean Players) expense!"

Some ideas about how the union would work and what it could offer to players who join.

A complete list of game standards and categories that a game company would need to come up to or complete before they could get a gameplayers union approval.

a approval list of games that the union would support and that members could trust with there credit card details, and of course a list of game companies that should not be trusted.

This idea could give us the ability to re-balance our rights and voice, over what our money will get us when we purchase a new game.

What do you all think, do we or should we have a Game players Union and if so, how should it work or what could it do for us?

*Please try and stick to the topic and try not to re-live old game company nightmares, unless it's part of an exsample, also No soap boxes please, thank you*

No offense, but you have no rights....well, you have the right not to buy it.

I suppose you could create this model and call it a "Union":

1. Create a large membership of gamers with an agenda.

2. Use the influence of your membership to boycott games like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton frequently do to companies.

3. Create a document that lists what you desire for a game. Beware here, I rarely see even two gamers agree. Once again, the influence of your membership will tend to give the document power to influence the game companies.

Here is your problem, though. If your membership is small, say...lower than a few million, you'll likely never get anywhere. You would need to have a membership that is, let's say...60% of the WOW subscribers...a large group. Large enough, that if you threaten to have all your members quit WOW, Blizzard would fear you. Heck, the more I think about it, if you could get 300,00 WOW subscribers to quit, Blizzard would listen to your terrorist demands.

FYU, A Union is about getting a paycheck for the work you do and not getting fired for working hard, acquiring experience, etc.

And lastly, I wonder where all these subscribers would come together, discuss what they LOVE (fanboi) and HATE (h8ter), and otherwise agree on games and ideas?

Here's a place: www.mmorpg.com